[MeadowCat]

Yeah...

I have been toying with the idea of transitioning McCoy from Acana as his kibble base to Purina Pro Plan.

The problem that I have is that he does so well on his current diet. His health couldn't be better. I am thinking about giving it a trial run. My "go to" pet supply store does not carry Purina Pro Plan, but every other close by decent pet store does.

We'll see.

John
Portland OR

Edit to say: He will get another full cardio work up this summer.

I'm having a really hard time with this. I did switch from Acana and I feel good about that decision. Unlike Brandy, Newtie is a picky eater and I finally found a food that he likes in Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Boost. I see that listed in the dog food brands named most frequently in DCM cases though. That's the the stuff that keeps me up at night. Ugh!

I totally understand, for both of you, and it's really tough. I do know of a couple of Dobermans that had echoes showing early signs of DCM that were eating Acana...they switched to Proplan, and all symptoms resolved. They've had clear echoes ever since. So...it's tough. I don't think Dobermans are immune to whatever's going on. I DO think it's complex, and I don't think it's fully understood yet. I truly, truly wish all of these companies would at least acknowledge that there's a possibility of issues with their food. That they'd start hiring qualified people to work on their formulas....part of my discomfort is the continued denials that it can't possibly be the food, the continued insistence that this is a "conspiracy" by the "bad" food companies (or worse, by veterinarians, the FDA, or all kinds of other crazy things I've heard)....or that it's "only a few dogs" - if it's YOUR dog that's died or is sick, that's pretty awful. Hundreds of dogs are affected, which would certainly be enough for a recall, if it was a situation like salmonella. They just don't yet have a definitive enough answer.

In any case, everyone makes the best decision they can for their own dog. That's all we can do. I'm just sharing the information as I get it, because I think it's worth sharing, and the more we know, the better choices we can make.

 

[MeadowCat]

For those that would like, this is the file of each report to the FDA by owners. It's fairly troubling to even skim it, seeing repeated foods over and over, and even skimming the details of the DCM diagnoses and details.

https://www.fda.gov/media/128303/do...SsYn9SZMyHbQk7cIhyyube-8hAx-QBmMwmGqHsdTt2arw

 

[4x4bike ped]

Just picked up a bag of Purina Pro Plan Savor (shedded salmon and rice). I will start moving him over tonight.

We'll see.

John
Portland OR

 

[TNfisher]

I just saw this article

From the article:

Between January 2014 and April 30, 2019, the FDA received 524 reports of DCM, including 119 dog deaths and five cat fatalities. Of those reports, 222 of them came between Dec. 1, 2018, and the end of April, the agency said.
Here is the list of 16 pet food brands and the number of reported DCM cases that the FDA suspects are related to each brand:

Acana: 67
Zignature: 64
Taste of the Wild: 53
4Health: 32
Earthborn Holistic: 32
Blue Buffalo: 31
Nature's Domain: 29
Fromm: 24
Merrick: 16
California Natural: 15
Natural Balance: 15
Orijen: 12
Nature's Variety: 11
NutriSource: 10
Nutro: 10
Rachael Ray Nutrish: 10

 

[MeadowCat]

I just saw this article

From the article:

Between January 2014 and April 30, 2019, the FDA received 524 reports of DCM, including 119 dog deaths and five cat fatalities. Of those reports, 222 of them came between Dec. 1, 2018, and the end of April, the agency said.
Here is the list of 16 pet food brands and the number of reported DCM cases that the FDA suspects are related to each brand:

Acana: 67
Zignature: 64
Taste of the Wild: 53
4Health: 32
Earthborn Holistic: 32
Blue Buffalo: 31
Nature's Domain: 29
Fromm: 24
Merrick: 16
California Natural: 15
Natural Balance: 15
Orijen: 12
Nature's Variety: 11
NutriSource: 10
Nutro: 10
Rachael Ray Nutrish: 10

There are definitely more, they just haven't been reported to the FDA necessarily. The Facebook group is pretty enlightening. They've been collecting reports from members that have confirmed cases from cardiologists all over the country...they have over 500 dogs diagnosed with over 100 deaths. All confirmed via echo by cardiologist. Their statistics in the group track pretty closely with the food reports of the FDA, but are more detailed and encompass more brands.

 

[dobegal]

would love to feed ProPlan however my boy is very high on the food intolerance for white fish. This includes fish meal, herring, tuna, sardines. If someone can point me in a direction of food that does not contain this I would look. Currently feeding Fromm Salmon ALA Veg and doing great.

 

[melbrod]

Article from FDA website, updated June 27, 2019

FDA Investigation into Potential Link between Certain Diets and Canine Dilated Cardiomyopathy

https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterina...rtain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy

It breaks down numbers of cases associated with different food brands, different meat proteins, vegetable proteins, breeds--specifically warns that Golden Retrievers may be genetically pre-disposed to taurine deficiency.

 

[MeadowCat]

would love to feed ProPlan however my boy is very high on the food intolerance for white fish. This includes fish meal, herring, tuna, sardines. If someone can point me in a direction of food that does not contain this I would look. Currently feeding Fromm Salmon ALA Veg and doing great.

Salmon a la Veg has Herring Meal and fish broth in it. His intolerances may not be as extensive as you think? (https://frommfamily.com/products/dog/four-star/dry/#salmon-a-la-veg)

If nothing else, at least that formula is grain-inclusive. I'm not sure what to recommend - I've not looked carefully at all the formulas.

Article from FDA website, updated June 27, 2019

FDA Investigation into Potential Link between Certain Diets and Canine Dilated Cardiomyopathy

https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterina...rtain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy

It breaks down numbers of cases associated with different food brands, different meat proteins, vegetable proteins, breeds--specifically warns that Golden Retrievers may be genetically pre-disposed to taurine deficiency.

Same link I posted above

 

[LadyDi]

Just yesterday our local news has began posting daily reports regarding the potential connections of dog food and DCM.......they end their report with a request that ......all owners and vets are being requested to report all dog deaths related to DCM. Have any of you seen this yet as you are watching the daily news on TV?
So maybe this is the beginning of a more extensive research in the area of dog foods/DCM.
Hope so.......

 

[MeadowCat]

Just yesterday our local news has began posting daily reports regarding the potential connections of dog food and DCM.......they end their report with a request that ......all owners and vets are being requested to report all dog deaths related to DCM. Have any of you seen this yet as you are watching the daily news on TV?
So maybe this is the beginning of a more extensive research in the area of dog foods/DCM.
Hope so.......

We've had local news reports around here.

I think what I find so interesting on the "pushback" from people is that if this were 500+ dogs diagnosed with a deadly condition (which it is, at this point) from some dog food like Beneful, people on social media would be absolutely clamouring for recalls and ready to boycott the company. But I'm hearing a lot of "this is statistically insignificant" and similar types of responses, and I think it's because these reports are coming from "good" companies, and it's really hard for us to want to be outraged and feel that same sense of anger. To want a recall. To be angry at those companies for doing nothing. But 500+ dogs sick and 100+ dogs dead is too many, IMO, even if we don't yet know the exact reason why.

 

[4x4bike ped]

If anyone is interested, McCoy has moved from his base grain free kibble to 75% Purina Pro Plan in six feedings with absolutely no issues.

His appetite is the same (wolflike LOL). His coat and skin are still perfect and his stools are still firm and regular.

In all honesty, his kibble is just a base for his entire meals which include things like:

Eggs
Yogurt
Cottage cheese.
Honest Kitchen dehydrated chicken raw
Pumpkin
Raw or cooked meat
Fresh fruit
Fresh or frozen vegetables
Occasional table scraps, etc

I started him on the shredded salmon and rice. If all goes well, once his supply of Acana Meadowland is gone, I will stick with the new kibble unless something changes. And then perhaps explore the various recipes that Purina Pro Plan offers.

I have always been lucky with this dog. He will eat anything and everything seems to agree with him.

John
Portland OR

 

[Kansadobe]

We have fed grain based dog foods for 45 years without a problem of any kind, so I saw no reason to jump on the "grain free" bandwagon. If any of the dogs had a grain based allergy, that may have been a different story, but for most dogs, grain based dog foods are never a problem.

 

[dobebug]

If anyone is interested, McCoy has moved from his base grain free kibble to 75% Purina Pro Plan in six feedings with absolutely no issues.

His appetite is the same (wolflike LOL). His coat and skin are still perfect and his stools are still firm and regular.

In all honesty, his kibble is just a base for his entire meals which include things like:

Eggs
Yogurt
Cottage cheese.
Honest Kitchen dehydrated chicken raw
Pumpkin
Raw or cooked meat
Fresh fruit
Fresh or frozen vegetables
Occasional table scraps, etc

I started him on the shredded salmon and rice. If all goes well, once his supply of Acana Meadowland is gone, I will stick with the new kibble unless something changes. And then perhaps explore the various recipes that Purina Pro Plan offers.

I have always been lucky with this dog. He will eat anything and everything seems to agree with him.

John
Portland OR

You changed McCoy to the ProPlan Savor shredded blend?--It's not quite the same as the ProPlan Focus Sensitive Skin and Stomach (salmon and rice). Purina added the ProPlan Savor line several years ago now--it seems to appeal to picky eaters--but the shredded strips are a mixture of soy and salmon and since none of my dogs have been picky eaters I just kept on feeding the ProPlan Focus (which I've been feeding through three name changes. I felt it was a little better and I have no picky eaters but you might want to look into the differences between the two ProPlan lines since you are still in the middle of a kibble change.

Have a nice sunny day (with a possibility of thunder sturms tonight--maybe) some more Midwest weather but it's sure nice right now.

dobebug

 

[4x4bike ped]

@ bug

OMG!!! McCoy is eating SOY? LOL. (I hope he doesn't become a vegan...)

Yeah, so if he does well on it, I will try several various PPP recipes. The dogs eats anything that is put in his bowl.

And yeah... we've had some beautiful weather recently between the intermittent deluges. Couple of days ago, It was raining so hard that I had to pull the truck over and wait it out.

Weird.

John
Portland OR

 

[LadyDi]

Probably some of Docs soybeans .......>

 

[dobebug]

@ bug

OMG!!! McCoy is eating SOY? LOL. (I hope he doesn't become a vegan...)

Yeah, so if he does well on it, I will try several various PPP recipes. The dogs eats anything that is put in his bowl.

And yeah... we've had some beautiful weather recently between the intermittent deluges. Couple of days ago, It was raining so hard that I had to pull the truck over and wait it out.

Weird.

John
Portland OR

LOL--actually soy is in practically all of the foods I've fed my dogs over the year--they didn't care--they think wheat and corn are OK too. But since they get some of what ever I'm making for dinner they all think that what ever I hand them (lettuce, cabbage, cucumber peels, ends of zuccini's, apple cores and peels, bits of tomatoes, carrots, celery (although some of the dogs didn't like the leaf ends)--etc--I'm not terribly concerned that they might become vegans.

I can't remember why I didn't even try the Savor line (a vet was the one who told me about it)--I vaguely remember comparing ingredients and I think (maybe) that the actual amount of salmon was greater in the Focus than in the Savor.

Who knows--this weather really cracks me up--it's like being in South Dakota at my grandmothers during the summer when I was kid.

ABTLH ooops thought I was on the chicken thread--dobebug

 

[MeadowCat]

There is an excellent blog post from a veterinary nutritionist addressing the FDA update. You can read it here: https://weethnutrition.wordpress.co...Sfz4Xjw7lSKSbO4DFwAd3d3zkgFvdEqzun0QINi1Tk6CU

The whole blog post is very worth reading. She does advise that we don't need to panic, you may not need to rush and change your dog's food, but she also nicely summarizes what we do and do not know. The reasons I've *personally* chosen to switch to a WSAVA food are really illustrated by her two quotes below:


"Meeting minimum nutrient levels on paper are not enough. Pet food manufacturers must know or hire knowledgeable individuals with an understanding for how nutrient level vary in the raw materials, how they are affected by other ingredients or nutrients in the mix, the effect of cooking (or lack of cooking) on nutrient stability and bioavailability, and the wide range of variability in genetics and food intakes in the dog population. Basing diet formulations on market trends rather than nutritional science is a recipe for disaster."

"At the end of the day diet-associated DCM is a preventable condition and manufacturers who are selling foods that are labeled as “complete and balanced” have an ethical and fiduciary obligation to meet that label promise. Having an idea about pet foods, being a dog trainer/breeder/owner, inheriting a family pet-food business, and/or writing a book about dogs and cats (even if it’s about food) does not qualify a person to know what it takes to keep a large population of dogs and cats healthy. No free passes because you didn’t know what you didn’t know, no matter the sincerity, especially if it ends up with disease and death."

 

[4x4bike ped]

So... 9th feeding into McCoy's Pro Plan transition. All is well. Absolutely no issues. He thinks the new kibble is a treat! LOL

But that has always been McCoy... Cast iron stomach with a non-discriminating appetite.

Just "FEED ME"!

John
Portland OR

 

[4x4bike ped]

We have fed grain based dog foods for 45 years without a problem of any kind, so I saw no reason to jump on the "grain free" bandwagon. If any of the dogs had a grain based allergy, that may have been a different story, but for most dogs, grain based dog foods are never a problem.

Yup

McCoy is my first dog that has ever been fed grain free. He actually was fed Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy until he was 14 months.

Neither diet caused any issues.

Over the years, our only dog to have died from DCM related causes, was never fed a grain free diet. Also, I have never had a dog with food related allergies.

John
Portland OR

 

[mybabyshai]

So confused

I have been reading this thread and really appreciate everyone's contribution.
I planned on feeding Orijen to my new puppy (I don't have yet) but now I am completely confused.

It seems I have to choose the lesser of the evils...controversial ingredients, possible links to DMC, other ingredients leading to possible organ damage or cancer, and lastly cost of the food.

I reviewed several dog foods from the following link because it seemed like many people feed Purina Pro Plan but it has 19 controversial and 3 harmful ingredients listed as opposed to Orijen with has zero in both categories. Of course Origen is on the DCM list and is crazy expensive, not that cost is the most important.

I just want a dry kibble that is mostly good for my precious dog, yet not so expensive I need a second job!
(homemade is not an option for the most part because I hate cooking but willing to add some things like eggs, veggies, etc. and raw is out... the thought of raw makes me nauseated)

Your thoughts please and thank you...

https://www.pawdiet.com/ingredients/purina-pro-plan-dog-food-ingredients-review/