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Frozen Vs. Fresh

1918 Views 12 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  Murreydobe
Can some of you please share your experiences and knowledge on frozen vs. fresh semen implantation? Also what method is more effective for implant, general AI or surgical? What are the risks and benefits you know for each?
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sundobe said:
Can some of you please share your experiences and knowledge on frozen vs. fresh semen implantation? Also what method is more effective for implant, general AI or surgical? What are the risks and benefits you know for each?
ugghhh - you know I know so little about this subject. I'm hoping that when I breed Louise that she will be fine with the real thing - LOL LOL!!

I do think that a lot of it depends on many factors and that each method have their plus and minuses.

Why do you ask?
I dont have any first hand experience but our breeder is a vet that has a frozen semen business also. Here is a link with some info http://www.k9frozensemen.com/k9frozensemen/index.htm
Thanks TJ!

Just mainly trying to educate myself MJ. I am waiting on a litter and the bitch is going to be surgically implanted with frozen. Which just got me to thinking about the whole frozen/fresh, AI/surgical thing. I have heard little of this topic anywhere, so thought it would be a good one for the board.

The girl is getting progesterone tested on Tuesday. We would love for her to have the real deal as well, but that just isn't logistically possible for this one.

Also, Does anyone know about the chance of success for a decent sized litter?
sundobe said:
Can some of you please share your experiences and knowledge on frozen vs. fresh semen implantation? Also what method is more effective for implant, general AI or surgical? What are the risks and benefits you know for each?
Generally fresh chilled semen is done with a vaginal implantation...it has a longer lifespan than frozen. Because of the shorter lifespan of frozen semen, the methods of choice are usually either surgical or transcervical implantation, where the semen is deposited directly into one of the horns of the uterus.

I had a frozen semen litter. The repro vet I use prefers to use transcervical implantation. She doesn't like to open the uterus to do a surgical implantation unless there's a prior fertility problem.

Transcervical implantation is when a pipette is inserted through the cervix, and into the uterus, guided by ultrasound. The semen is then deposited in the uterus through the pipette. It was pretty slick-no anesthetic, I was there holding the bitch's head, and watched the whole procedure on the monitor. The whole thing took about 10 minutes.

The expertise of the people on both ends of the equation are what can make or break any kind of artificial insemination. That and timing, although as I said, the timing is more critical with frozen. My repro vet also has her progesterone tests analyzed at a human lab, rather than one that typically does animal tests.
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sundobe said:
Also, Does anyone know about the chance of success for a decent sized litter?
I know of people who have had frozen litters of 8-10. My repro vet has another breed, but she had a litter of 16!

I only had 5 puppies in my litter, but I think that was primarily due to the the dam, rather than the semen or the method of getting her pregnant..she was bred twice (live cover) after my litter, and missed both times.
Transcervical implantation - this would be the same as AI? I am thinking AI because this is what we did to our horses and cattle when I was on the ranch. This method would make much more sense to me, but I think the breeder is taking no chances with this breeding. (I guess the fee was pretty large)

I am not sure about her fertility, but I think she had two really small litters (like 1 and 2 puppies I believe) before this. I have a sneaking suspicion, that it had something to do with where she was kept at the time. She was being leased to another individual and she was quite stressed about it apparently. I know that the vet that is doing this procedure is well known for her skill in this area. She is also back where she belongs and is a much happier girl now, and healthier too from what I understand so I would think that will positively affect fertility. At least I hope it will.

The stud is also supposed to have excellent motility, and I hear that the thawed semen should be around 85% of the original count? Make sense?
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sundobe said:
I think the breeder is taking no chances with this breeding. (I guess the fee was pretty large)

The stud is also supposed to have excellent motility, and I hear that the thawed semen should be around 85% of the original count? Make sense?
It's OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive to have litters this way, whether they be using fresh chilled or frozen semen. If it's fresh chilled, you usually pay for the collection costs on top of the stud fee. The last time I had a dog collected, it was something like $275.

I know with my frozen semen litter, the shipping and rental charge for the container the semen was shipped in was close to $400.

Progesterone testing costs can vary by your location. I paid $85/test, and they were done every other day starting at day 10..you do these tests until there's a hormone surge...luckily I only had to have 2 progesterone tests done before the bitch was ready to be bred.

And then to top it all off, a lot of the time there's no return service offered if the bitch misses with AI litters.
Murreydobe said:
It's OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive to have litters this way, whether they be using fresh chilled or frozen semen. If it's fresh chilled, you usually pay for the collection costs on top of the stud fee. The last time I had a dog collected, it was something like $275.

I know with my frozen semen litter, the shipping and rental charge for the container the semen was shipped in was close to $400.

Progesterone testing costs can vary by your location. I paid $85/test, and they were done every other day starting at day 10..you do these tests until there's a hormone surge...luckily I only had to have 2 progesterone tests done before the bitch was ready to be bred.

And then to top it all off, a lot of the time there's no return service offered if the bitch misses with AI litters.
Oh ya, I have been talking about it with her since the stud choice was made. The fees are crazy and the semen itself was a whopper too. I think she has a lot of guts, this is a lot to 'hopefully' have a good litter of puppies. I guess though, all good breeders go through this type of thing when they make the decision to breed. I just really hope that it is successful for her. This is her first breeding and she is very nervous about it. It would be nice to see it become a positive experience for her.
When I saw the topic title I thought this was going to be a discussion on vegtables, fruits and meats. (blushing) I guess it pays to look at which forum the post is in first.
Java was from a litter conceived by AI. The dam previously missed all but one pup due to infection/bacteria at the time of mating. Breeder kept her and called her 'Treasure'. Second litter was done using AI, same sire, 11 healthy puppies total.
Mama&PapaTeak said:
When I saw the topic title I thought this was going to be a discussion on vegtables, fruits and meats. (blushing) I guess it pays to look at which forum the post is in first.

I thought it was about rats and wondered why it was here.

Good luck to you and the breeder (and mommy of course).
Mama&PapaTeak said:
When I saw the topic title I thought this was going to be a discussion on vegtables, fruits and meats. (blushing) I guess it pays to look at which forum the post is in first.
LOL...I got an email once with the subject header: "frozen sperm". I immediately deleted it, thinking it was some porno thing. Then a few months later the same person emailed me again, it turned out to be an inquiry from a breeder in South America about breeding (via AI) to a male I bred. Did I feel silly when I figured it all out!
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