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Dances With Dobes
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I found his x-rays from last year and the e-vet mentioned a "tissue swelling" in his neck.

This is the x-ray




The thing is, if I look down at his neck from above, I can still see the slight protrusion, sort of like an abnormal bulge.

We have an appt. with an animal chiropractor next Thursday.

Is there a vet online who can interpret that x-ray?

I have no idea what I'm looking at except that whatever those two "cords" are running down the length of his neck are not symmetrical.

This is his chronological tremor list:

11/21/09 1x
1/25/11 2x
2/13/11 1x
2/14/11 1x

All of them are very brief, very subtle and fine and always happen when he's laying beside me on his left side.

[the one he just had an hour ago, I took someone here's advice and tilted his head straight up and it stopped immediately]

There has to be some significance to this "pattern".

And please forgive me for continuing to worry over this.

I've never had a Dobe with tremors and it scares me to death, even if it's considered "harmless".

He did have a neck injury and the e-vets may have exacerbated it by forcibly dragging him, screaming and fighting to the x-ray room by a very thin "noosed" leash around his neck rather than letting me lead him by his harness.

Again, I'm sorry to keep bugging y'all.

I have severe anxiety disorder, PTSD and I can't "stop worrying", ever.


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Holier Than Now
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It has been superlong since I tech'd, and even then it was simply a matter of going over the rads with the Doc, trying to "see" what he saw, you know?

That said, I think the animal chiro is a great plan.

I would ask about C4, esp, while you're there.

Try not to focus your worry so much on soft tissue things, the "cords," for example--a lot of that can be positional--you want good clear rads of the actual bone structure for the chiro to review--they likely take their own films, anyway.

Meanwhile, don't play tug with him, if you have been, and try to have faith the chiro will get you some answers.
 
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Dances With Dobes
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I really don't deserve you, dear friend......:)

I never play tug with him but hubby does....in spite of the fact that I keep telling him [gut instinct] that I think there's something wrong with Odin's neck.

I will remember "C4".

Bless you, friend.

:]



It has been superlong since I tech'd, and even then it was simply a matter of going over the rads with the Doc, trying to "see" what he saw, you know?

That said, I think the animal chiro is a great plan.

I would ask about C4, esp, while you're there.

Try not to focus your worry so much on soft tissue things, the "cords," for example--a lot of that can be positional--you want good clear rads of the actual bone structure for the chiro to review--they likely take their own films, anyway.

Meanwhile, don't play tug with him, if you have been, and try to have faith the chiro will get you some answers.
 

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I can massage the tremors away for Yoda by placing the flat of my hand at the base of his neck on the side that is up (as he lays on his side) and simply slowly and gently mushing the muscle around. It takes a bit, but when you have one that won't go away or keeps coming back, it is good to try. It also is useful when it first starts as a mild barely noticeable tremor, you can head the event off. I can feel that the muscle is tense (almost rock hard) and I can feel it soften little by little. So next time, try hunting around with the flat of your hand and see if you can find muscles that are very tight in the neck.

Yoda manages to rotate a vertebrae in his neck and he starts carrying his head a little lower and then he gets the tremors. The chiro adjusts the neck and that stops it for a while.

Given my personal history with chiro issues, it takes quite a few adjustments before the dog gets the right support in place in the soft tissues to hold the head in the correct position. If you have your neck out of line for an extended period of time, the soft tissues will shorten on one side and extend on the other. Those tissues need time to even out again.

Additionally: time for you to talk heart to heart with your vet about your requirements. I have finally had this conversation and I go with my boy everywhere now. The Vet tech was causing his problems when taking blood from his neck. When I saw this, I went a little crazy and wouldn't let them touch/hold him - I do that. Make sure they NEVER put a collar or leash around his neck. Let them know that this is not agreeable to you in exchange for money - i.e. not going to pay for services where they cause injury to your dog.

Do you have a different vet you can go to maybe? I would walk if they wouldn't listen to you.
 

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Dances With Dobes
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I don't have to worry about walking out on the vets who yanked him around.

They banned me from their hospital and emergency clinic for "complaining" about that mistreatment, among other egregious bordering-on-malpractice things.

Our regular vet is a dream but not a chiro or VOM person.

Odin's tremors come and go so fast that I don't know if I'll have time to find any tense spots but I'll sure try.
[hopefully, he won't have any more but I'm starting to lose hope of that miracle]

Ironically, I have massive cervical vertebrae problems myself, courtesy of the ex-husband.
He threw me to the floor and I landed on my left shoulder and he dropped all of his 220 pounds onto my right shoulder, giving me a "hangman's injury" which is whiplash, only snapped sideways instead of front-to-back.

He never took me to a doctor or hospital because anybody with half a brain would have known he did it to me and arrested him.
[and the worst place for a prison guard to wind up is in prison]

For almost a year, I couldn't turn my neck at all and I still can't turn it to the left very far without screaming.

So, it healed really wonky, pinched my nerves, developed calcifications, narrowed the nerve canal and gives me the wonderful gift that never stops giving of peripheral nerve weirdness.
[vertigo, dropping things without warning, balance issues, neck pain you can't imagine, etc etc etc]

I'm hoping the VOM doctor calls back before the appt. with the vet who "has a chiro in once a month."
She said she wouldn't take a dog to a VOM practitioner unless they were also a vet. [any thoughts on that?]

From what I've read, the two are not even really the same mode of treatment.

When I first posted about this, I was worried the new baby rats caused it.
Now I think they did, sort of.

Their aquarium was four feet off the floor on a cabinet top and he was desperately jumping up to see them and then standing on the arm of the sofa at about their level, straining as hard as he could to get near them.

Maybe he aggravated the preexisting issue that sent us to the e-vet a year ago?

I'm still convinced that came from the dogs knocking a whole pile of stuff off the blanket chest while I was 50 miles away, waiting for hubby to have a 3x bypass.
[Odin was a 6 month old suicidal idiot at that age]

The next night was when he started the yelping and weird body posturing that sure seemed to be coming from his neck area.

Would that make everybody think it's not "Wobbler's"?


Thanks SO much for your very detailed and comforting reply.





I can massage the tremors away for Yoda by placing the flat of my hand at the base of his neck on the side that is up (as he lays on his side) and simply slowly and gently mushing the muscle around. It takes a bit, but when you have one that won't go away or keeps coming back, it is good to try. It also is useful when it first starts as a mild barely noticeable tremor, you can head the event off. I can feel that the muscle is tense (almost rock hard) and I can feel it soften little by little. So next time, try hunting around with the flat of your hand and see if you can find muscles that are very tight in the neck.

Yoda manages to rotate a vertebrae in his neck and he starts carrying his head a little lower and then he gets the tremors. The chiro adjusts the neck and that stops it for a while.

Given my personal history with chiro issues, it takes quite a few adjustments before the dog gets the right support in place in the soft tissues to hold the head in the correct position. If you have your neck out of line for an extended period of time, the soft tissues will shorten on one side and extend on the other. Those tissues need time to even out again.

Additionally: time for you to talk heart to heart with your vet about your requirements. I have finally had this conversation and I go with my boy everywhere now. The Vet tech was causing his problems when taking blood from his neck. When I saw this, I went a little crazy and wouldn't let them touch/hold him - I do that. Make sure they NEVER put a collar or leash around his neck. Let them know that this is not agreeable to you in exchange for money - i.e. not going to pay for services where they cause injury to your dog.

Do you have a different vet you can go to maybe? I would walk if they wouldn't listen to you.
 

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I don't have to worry about walking out on the vets who yanked him around.

They banned me from their hospital and emergency clinic for "complaining" about that mistreatment, among other egregious bordering-on-malpractice things.


I'm hoping the VOM doctor calls back before the appt. with the vet who "has a chiro in once a month."
She said she wouldn't take a dog to a VOM practitioner unless they were also a vet. [any thoughts on that?]
Sorry about your @$$ of a husband. :(

VOM and chiropractic are different yet similar in that they address the spine in particular. You never want a person to yank around on your dog's spine or bones without a chiro degree. VOM is much gentler and safer but it is not as thorough as a chiropractic adjustment. I use both.

If it is a case of vertebrae misalignment, then the VOM works fast and well. Cold laser does a great job also of reducing inflammation. If you have a twisted vertebra or hip, then the VOM "may" be able to fix it, or it might not. That would be when you need to see a chiropractor.

Both my VOM and my Chiro are very gentle with the dogs and it is up to me to figure which one I go to at what point. The VOM guy will sometimes say "I think you need to see the chiro because ... etc.". The chiro can give your dog a mild traction effect that helps straighten the spine out but your VOM guy won't do that probably. My chiro has taught me what to do for Enid with mild traction for her neck and mid-back.

So yes, they are different but similar. I have never had any of the dogs complain or act like they are hurt by any treatments they have had.
 

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Dances With Dobes
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Me too but he got replaced with a better model......:)

Thanks for the info!

I'll keep the chiro appt. then and check out the VOM guy if necessary.

Chiros make me nervous because, without having ever looked at my x-rays, one gal would not give up until she got a "crack" out of the right side of my neck.

The "mild vertigo and pain" I had before she did that are now considered the "good old days".

My next chiro gently manipulated my neck and gave me TENS treatments but once she saw my x-ray, she flatly said "I am never touching your neck again!".

She said it was a miracle that nobody had "accidentally paralyzed" me, yet.

I reckon things must be pretty messed up in there.

The last chiro barely twisted it and pulled it a few times and then stopped.
It was not helping and my pain got worse.

I tried acupuncture....didn't do much, either.

I just started using this thing:

Home back pain relief and neck pain relief-Posture Pump

Hurts like the devil when you use it but it sure feels good when you stop.

[theoretically, I'm "retraining" my cervical spine into a normal alignment....we'll see]......:)


.





Sorry about your @$$ of a husband. :(

VOM and chiropractic are different yet similar in that they address the spine in particular. You never want a person to yank around on your dog's spine or bones without a chiro degree. VOM is much gentler and safer but it is not as thorough as a chiropractic adjustment. I use both.

If it is a case of vertebrae misalignment, then the VOM works fast and well. Cold laser does a great job also of reducing inflammation. If you have a twisted vertebra or hip, then the VOM "may" be able to fix it, or it might not. That would be when you need to see a chiropractor.

Both my VOM and my Chiro are very gentle with the dogs and it is up to me to figure which one I go to at what point. The VOM guy will sometimes say "I think you need to see the chiro because ... etc.". The chiro can give your dog a mild traction effect that helps straighten the spine out but your VOM guy won't do that probably. My chiro has taught me what to do for Enid with mild traction for her neck and mid-back.

So yes, they are different but similar. I have never had any of the dogs complain or act like they are hurt by any treatments they have had.
 

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Holier Than Now
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Yeah, I was very comforted by my current chiro telling me that it was a miracle no other chiro had "accidentally killed" me yet.

The fact that the one I left, prior to him, knocked me unconscious with a neck adjustment (I have vertebral artery issues) made me know his suggestion had been a very real possibility.

So, just trust your gut when discussing tx modalities on Odin--I know you will, just a reminder, and I also know you'll speak right up if anything feels wrong to you.
 
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Dances With Dobes
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah, I was very comforted by my current chiro telling me that it was a miracle no other chiro had "accidentally killed" me yet.

The fact that the one I left, prior to him, knocked me unconscious with a neck adjustment (I have vertebral artery issues) made me know his suggestion had been a very real possibility.

So, just trust your gut when discussing tx modalities on Odin--I know you will, just a reminder, and I also know you'll speak right up if anything feels wrong to you.
HOLY CRAP!!!:shocking:

I read somewhere that women have had strokes in beauty parlors because of the position the beauticians place their necks in when washing their hair in those weird "lay back" sinks.

My hair is down below my butt and when I'm washing it in the shower, I'm *very* careful to *not* tilt my neck back too far when rinsing it.

[it gets a lot heavier when it's wet and I can feel it pulling my neck back to where it can't really go any more]

Hubby has standing orders to come check on me if he doesn't hear the water stop running after 15 minutes, max.....just in case.

What is the significance of the "C4" thingy?
Is that a very dangerous or especially sensitive vertebrae?

I need to know everything possible ahead of time because I don't know this chiro from Adam and know next to nothing about chiro, in general, save for the fact that a bad one can just about kill you.

[and 24 hours later, the VOM guy I left *2* messages with has yet to call back....that's not very comforting]

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Holier Than Now
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HOLY CRAP!!!:shocking:

I read somewhere that women have had strokes in beauty parlors because of the position the beauticians place their necks in when washing their hair in those weird "lay back" sinks.

My hair is down below my butt and when I'm washing it in the shower, I'm *very* careful to *not* tilt my neck back too far when rinsing it.

[it gets a lot heavier when it's wet and I can feel it pulling my neck back to where it can't really go any more]

Hubby has standing orders to come check on me if he doesn't hear the water stop running after 15 minutes, max.....just in case.

What is the significance of the "C4" thingy?
Is that a very dangerous or especially sensitive vertebrae?

I need to know everything possible ahead of time because I don't know this chiro from Adam and know next to nothing about chiro, in general, save for the fact that a bad one can just about kill you.

[and 24 hours later, the VOM guy I left *2* messages with has yet to call back....that's not very comforting]

.

That'd be just my luck, I'd be in getting a perm or color or something, and have a stroke, and in the ensuing medical madness, the beautician would leave the chemicals in, and I'd wake up with very, very bad hair, and paralyzed arms so I couldn't even attempt to style it a bit and fix it.

I don't know dog anatomy at all, when it comes to the spinal nerve roots.

I was just looking at the pic of the Xray, and if you count down (all the vertebral spaces look good and clean to me, but again, I suck at reading rads, so, huge grain of salt), but there appears to be a slight misalignment there--it could be positional or I even could have made it up in my head.

Just something to ask the real expert about. Sorry, wish I knew more, because I know you are a bad waiter, like me.
 

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Dances With Dobes
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That'd be just my luck, I'd be in getting a perm or color or something, and have a stroke, and in the ensuing medical madness, the beautician would leave the chemicals in, and I'd wake up with very, very bad hair, and paralyzed arms so I couldn't even attempt to style it a bit and fix it.

I don't know dog anatomy at all, when it comes to the spinal nerve roots.

I was just looking at the pic of the Xray, and if you count down (all the vertebral spaces look good and clean to me, but again, I suck at reading rads, so, huge grain of salt), but there appears to be a slight misalignment there--it could be positional or I even could have made it up in my head.

Just something to ask the real expert about. Sorry, wish I knew more, because I know you are a bad waiter, like me.

Here's something brand spanking new for you to point and laugh at me about.

When I got my head cracked in 1981 and was in a coma for 11 days, immediately *prior* to the noggin-knock, I'd been laying out in the back yard, slathered in QT.
[bonus points to anyone who remembers that "quick tan" crap]

They were afraid to move or bathe me so I woke up Oompa-Loompa orange.

[It really clashed with the red hair, I tell ya what].....:)

And I seriously suck at waiting.

I want everything last month.


LOL


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yeah its a matter of finding the RIGHT chiropractor, there are more of the bad and untalented ones than the ones that are talented. I am super LUCKY to have found a chiro that is awesome at his job. If he is having a hard time adjusting someone he doesnt sit there and really force it, he will send them to me the massage therapist to loosen up the muscles and then go back to him and it adjusts right away.

I would also recommend some doggy massage, it will allow the muscles to loosen up and allow the muscles to retrain themselves to go back to proper position while the dog chiro is doing their thing. If the muscles are to tight the adjustment will pretty much go right back to wear it was right away. Doing th massage and chiro together will help the healing time.
 

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Dances With Dobes
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I sure wish you lived closer.

It seems like the general west coast and east coast city folks have many more and better choices than I have here in the Appalachian sticks.
[I'm not technically in the "middle of nowhere" but you can see it from here]

The VOM guy still hasn't returned my call.

By chance I found a massage therapist today whose waiting patient proclaimed him "the fixer of the broken" and heaped nothing but high praise upon him.

I took one of his business cards.
Maybe he does critters, too.

.

yeah its a matter of finding the RIGHT chiropractor, there are more of the bad and untalented ones than the ones that are talented. I am super LUCKY to have found a chiro that is awesome at his job. If he is having a hard time adjusting someone he doesnt sit there and really force it, he will send them to me the massage therapist to loosen up the muscles and then go back to him and it adjusts right away.

I would also recommend some doggy massage, it will allow the muscles to loosen up and allow the muscles to retrain themselves to go back to proper position while the dog chiro is doing their thing. If the muscles are to tight the adjustment will pretty much go right back to wear it was right away. Doing th massage and chiro together will help the healing time.
 

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Dances With Dobes
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Today, after 53 days of no tremors, Odin was now just laying on the floor and when he looked up, his head was tremoring again....they seemed somewhat worse than the other very minor ones did, too.

Lifting it straight up didn't help this time but it stopped immediately when I called him out of the living room to go find his dad.

I don't know if him getting really worked up and trying to get under the gate to chase the goats 'did something' to his neck again or if we're just permanently screwed.

I was SO happy that he "wasn't having them anymore"....and now this.

Luckily, tomorrow is his follow-up chiro appt.

She did say his Atlas joint was 'severely misaligned' and worked on the rest of his neck and said he had 'trigger spots' on his spine, too.
He was doing wonderfully until today.

I just had to have my 14 year old Ibizan Hound Jack put down last week and I am NOT up to this stress and worry "relapse".
I've never had to have any of my dogs 'humanely killed' and I'm not taking that very well at all.

[God...I thought [hoped/prayed] Odin was "fixed"].....:(

Has anybody found any new info on this "issue"?

I want my baby's life to be perfect and this worries me to death in spite of everybody telling me to not worry myself to death.


Shari


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Dances With Dobes
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Just read this and hoping your boy is going to be OK. So very sorry about Jack.
Thanks so much.
Odin is my heart and soul and I worry about him something fierce.

Jack came here with Lyme disease and we didn't know it 'til he became symptomatic when he was 4.
[he was born in SC in the heat of late May and the whole litter was a medical mess...they probably had Lyme, too]

Unfortunately, he got the neurological and the nephritic form and his kidneys have been iffy for quite a while.
[incontinence...he wore a belly band and a male pee pad for those days when he had extra 'troubles']

In spite of all that, he was the happiest total goof I've ever known.
[maybe the Lyme "affected" his mind and he didn't know how to be unhappy]

That was how I knew that day something very, very bad was happening....he was not his ridiculously happy self at all.
Truth be told, it was the first time I wasn't looking at my normal compulsively tail wagging, grinning-idiot-child.

We took him to the vet to see what was wrong and a blood test showed his kidneys were shutting down.
Just the day before, he was eating like a pig, running and playing and then something sudden and dreadful must have happened overnight.

[I wish I knew what]....:(

It was a terrible shock.

I didn't even have a blanket with me because I totally didn't expect to not to be bringing him home to recover.

The vet put in him in a big black trash bag.

I completely lost it when I saw that.


The weird thing was coming home and looking for something but finding a 'lost' Sony memory stick that I'd been looking for, for *years*, instead.

I popped into the card reader and it was all full of videos of him, his deceased sister Izzy and my other Ibizans playing happily in the summer-sun backyard.

I like to think it was their way of "telling me" that they're together again and very happy and healthy.

[or, I'm having a nervous breakdown and losing my last couple of marbles]
 

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Dances With Dobes
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I don't think you're losing your marbles....you've just been touch by sweet serendipity of blessings from the dogs who've loved you. It's experiences like that, that make life so special and wonderous.
What if I told you I saw him laying in his "den" under the stairs the next morning and was too sleepy to realize I couldn't have seen him because he was gone?

He was laying where/how he always did, head on 'arm' and he raised his head and looked up at me as I walked by.

I went back and forth trying to replicate any "tricks of light and shadow'...or whatever quite a few times.

Couldn't make it "happen" again.

Still think I'm not nuts?....:)

.
 
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