[Village Idiot]

So I went to a couple’s place that does Shutzhund training for working dogs. An acquaintance of mine from the motorcycle boards happen to run across a post of mine stating that I was in search of a pup and told me about it. He introduced me to several people and within 15 minutes I was talking to a couple that had several AKC Dobermans and one had just had an “accidental” litter. Two of the Dobermans apparently mated and had an unplanned litter, which is ok, since the dogs are pure bred. He has two red males and two black females that are left unclaimed.

I’m going tonight to check out the males and see if they’re suitable. I might be ending up with a new red Doberman puppy in about 4 weeks if everything works out right.

He said he would not be selling me a dog that would be 100% sure to turn out as a good Shutzhund dog though. He said the prey drive on these pups were not apparently up to par with some of the other dogs he raised. He did say that one of the pups is really mellow and is the most laidback out of the litter and the other is the most prey driven and wound up. Even though I’m interested in Shutzhund, the calm one seems more my type. I may just end up doing agility and obedience instead. After seeing the dogs in training, I have to say that they’re all high strung animals…

 

[PeeWeesMama]

Run run as fast as you can....."accidental litter" sounds like trouble to me!!!!

 

[Village Idiot]

No, it's not. They have all their shots and the mother and father are health tested.

I met the sire at the Shutzhund event. He was barking a little while he was in the Crate in the back of the person’s suv with a female dobe in another crate (not the mother). The owner’s wife said they should let him out so I could get a good look. The guy opened the crate and attached the leash and then he jumped out of the back of the SUV and came straight for me out of a group of like 5 people. First thing he did was attack my hand with his nose and “muzzled” my hand up to the top of his head and kind of wagged it back and forth so I would pet him. I stopped petting him a few moments later and he did it again. This went on for like 5 or 6 times before he went to find some one that would pay him more attention.

The family is not a backyard breeder and they raise good dogs. He was thoroughly enjoyed that some one close by (about 15 miles away) was interested in one of his pups because we wanted to keep them close. He was also giving me a lot of good information.

And they do plan on breeding the dogs, but they were also showing the dam and didn’t want her to get pregnant to interrupt the showing schedule they had, so they had to take an unplanned break. I think this is only the second litter within 2 years, so they’re definitely not pumping them out for money.

 

[micdobe]

An "unplanned", or "accidental" litter cand and has happened to very good breeders. OTOH there are some unethical breeders who breed two unsuitable dogs together and then try to get out of responsibility for the litter by saying it was an "accident".

No way to tell from the information given which this was. But as far as the schutzhund aspect, it doesn't take a prey driven monster dog to "do" schutzhund. Unless the dog is a complete deadhead it should be capable of training and titling in schutzhund. And even deadheads could probably do it with the right trainer.

The "high prey" monster dogs are good for high scores in the sport but not as easy to live with. A stable well balanced Doberman should do just fine as far as traingin and titling. You don't have to "settle" for obedience and agility if you really want to train in schutzhund just because your dog is mellow.

You say the parents of these puppies are health tested. Do you know what health tests they've had specifically, and what the results are? If not, don't just take the breeder's word for the general concept of health testing, ask to see the results of the various tests.

Good luck.

 

[Kratty]

Run run as fast as you can....."accidental litter" sounds like trouble to me!!!!

I would have to aggree with PeeWeesMama. An accidental litter would be a flag to me now. Getting your first doberman is an exciting time and sometimes our judgement gets clouded by just the thought of getting a dobie puppy. I think many can agree that our first dobie may not have been from the best breeder and we could have choosen better with the knowledge we have gained from forums like this. I am one of those people. I think my girl is awesome, but I have learned the breeder I got her from is not as good as they presented themselves to be. Hopefully you make the informed choice. Good Luck

 

[zedemar]

But as far as the schutzhund aspect, it doesn't take a prey driven monster dog to "do" schutzhund. Unless the dog is a complete deadhead it should be capable of training and titling in schutzhund. And even deadheads could probably do it with the right trainer.

Do you tell from own experience?
How many prey monsters or deadheads have you titeled?

 

[Village Idiot]

http://www.freewebs.com/giggenbach/puppies.htm

I'm actually going over to their house tonight to look at the pups.

 

[Murreydobe]

The family is not a backyard breeder and they raise good dogs. He was thoroughly enjoyed that some one close by (about 15 miles away) was interested in one of his pups because we wanted to keep them close. He was also giving me a lot of good information.

And they do plan on breeding the dogs, but they were also showing the dam and didn’t want her to get pregnant to interrupt the showing schedule they had, so they had to take an unplanned break. I think this is only the second litter within 2 years, so they’re definitely not pumping them out for money.

Well..I think it could be argued these people *do* fall under the backyard breeder heading. The dam is from pure "pet" lines, nothing noteworthy about her pedigree at all. She's 3 years old and has no points earned towards her championship..so the idea they're actually trying to show her is...farfetched. Why they'd plan to breed her to a well bred male is beyond me.

While it's good there's been some health testing on the parents, they only offer a one year genetic health guarantee on these puppies. That's kind of laughable, considering most of the health problems that affect dobermans are late onset diseases.

 

[Dobesanddragons]

I have to say that they’re all high strung animals…

Most Dobes do have prey drive, some have very high drive -

but they should be stable and confident not nervy or high strung, regardless if they are pets, show dogs, or Sch. prospects. Although one of mine was high strung, and not the easiest to live with at times b/c of it, the NEED for constant activity, even though we worked a lot, it wasn't ever enough. And if you do not fulfill the excercise and energy needs of such a high strung dog and live with the dog, be prepared for that dog to find other less desirable ways for an outlet.

Just curious, what would make you believe they aren't backyard breeders?

 

[Fitzmar Dobermans]

http://www.freewebs.com/giggenbach/puppies.htm

I'm actually going over to their house tonight to look at the pups.

The WAE (Working Apptitude Evaluation) that the breeder refers to on her website is the one I am in charge of this weekend. Please feel free to come and watch. If you are undecided at this point, the WAE would be a good opportunity to meet several good breeders in a more relaxed atmosphere than you would find at a show.

I don't know where you live but the WAE is being held not too far from Allentown PA. Directions are on our club website at www.qcdpc.com - on the WAE page, there is a link for directions. We will be starting at approx 10:30 this Saturday.

 

[gazoo02]

nm.

 

[les strat]

I didn't see von Willebrand testing on either one. That is a must in my book.

 

[BackInBlack]

Hey! Thats ME on their website! I was the umbrella popper for the WAE that day. I dont know what kind of face I am making in that pic (WOW, pretty bad) But I remember this dog. Very nice dog. Did very well on the "unfriendly stranger" phase. She was telling the truth........there were only 4 out of 15 that passed that day. It was pretty sad to watch.

 

[LindaH]

I thought you were just laughing. Not a bad pic at all.

 

[Acooper]

Hey! Thats ME on their website! I was the umbrella popper for the WAE that day. I dont know what kind of face I am making in that pic (WOW, pretty bad) But I remember this dog. Very nice dog. Did very well on the "unfriendly stranger" phase. She was telling the truth........there were only 4 out of 15 that passed that day. It was pretty sad to watch.

BIB, you are quite pretty!! I think you looked like you were laughing too!

 

[Fitzmar Dobermans]

Hey! Thats ME on their website! I was the umbrella popper for the WAE that day. I dont know what kind of face I am making in that pic (WOW, pretty bad) But I remember this dog. Very nice dog. Did very well on the "unfriendly stranger" phase. She was telling the truth........there were only 4 out of 15 that passed that day. It was pretty sad to watch.

Interesting........... she must have done some training since she took her through our WAE in September.

 

[BackInBlack]

The WAE was November 11. We are talking about Dietrich Von Rubenhof? I dont know the dog, other than from that day. But if I remember correctly, she did very well on her WAE.

 

[BackInBlack]

BIB, you are quite pretty!! I think you looked like you were laughing too!

Thank You ACooper, very nice of you to lie to me like that That really is a horrible picture......I dont know if I am laughing or what!

 

[brumwolf]

You should post the pic of you with the false teeth in BiB,the one you posted when someone asked to see pics of all the members back then.

 

[BackInBlack]

hahahah, ok....lemme find it!