[Zeus's Mommy]

Hi all,

Zeus and I have been through basic obedience and we still work on it occasionally but probably not enough. He's become a lazy bum and will sleep for most of the day. To break this boy of his lazy tendency, I've been trying to work on heel with him. I've been working on it while we are on our walks. What I've noticed is that he will heel but doesn't really pay attention to me. Maybe we're just out of practice.

What I've been trying to regain his attention is to have him sit at the curb before we cross the street. Before I start walking again, I ask him to "focus," which just means to give me eye contact. He knows what it means; he has to "focus" before he eats every meal. He's really good with that. Things are different when we are on our walk though; I can ask him 5 times before he will actually look at me.

At this point, I haven't been correcting him. When he finally does look at me, I say, "good boy," and we continue our walk. He's starting to catch on but will still take his time before complying. QUESTION: should I be correcting him for not responding to the command the first time? I appreciate your help.

(A background on this boy) I think maybe the reason for him being so lazy is that either it's because we don't go hiking or parks or have "run free off leash" time anymore because of school and time constraints. He's lucky to get 2-3 walks a week. (I've been working on it) OR it could have something to do with his bad back. He has a neurological issue in his lower back which makes it hard for the signals to relay back and forth between his back legs and his brain. He walks kinda funny but isn't in pain. Opinions welcome.

 

[PatchworkRobot]

I'll be interested to see the responses. My boy has gotten better focus-wise but, unless we're in class, he doesn't focus at all while healing.

When I was having focus issues in general I spent a lot of time practicing focus. I spent about a week alone on simply training him to focus on me and now I usually spend the first 3-5 min of training every day on focusing.

 

[arankin]

clicker training has REALLY helped us with focus. You need to maybe do more focus games in general, not just while working on heeling because he may not be ready for that yet. Especially if it is not practiced daily, multiple times a day. We do 4 walks a day, half of it is heeling to the park, the other half she gets to walk loose leash on the way back and sniff around while following me.

Don't over use your command either, set him up for success! If you are say, at a stop and you tell him "focus" 5 times, and he looks at you on the 6th time he isn't respecting your command. Try getting his attention first by whistling or something, when he looks say focus and then "yes good boy"

In class though when we are learning to develop their focus, we don't even introduce a word like "focus" until they know how to do it on their own. An EXCELLENT focus exercise: hold a handful of treats, bring it to their nose let them smell it, pull it away and hold your arm straight out. They will naturally follow your hand, but eventually will make eye contact with you, that is when you "yes" or click and treat (feed from opposite hand).

Next level is to do the same things but turn your back to them, they will eventually follow to your front and LOOK FOR your eye contact. They will want to FOCUS because they know good things happen. After this point we can introduce the word.

Hope I am doing more help than rambling

 

[Adara]

What I've been trying to regain his attention is to have him sit at the curb before we cross the street. Before I start walking again, I ask him to "focus," which just means to give me eye contact. He knows what it means; he has to "focus" before he eats every meal. He's really good with that. Things are different when we are on our walk though; I can ask him 5 times before he will actually look at me.

At this point, I haven't been correcting him. When he finally does look at me, I say, "good boy," and we continue our walk. He's starting to catch on but will still take his time before complying. QUESTION: should I be correcting him for not responding to the command the first time? I appreciate your help.

To me, he does not know what look means in that situation yet so no I would not correct. again I'm not someone who typically uses them but I feel IF you do, you must be fair and be 100% sure (or as close as possible) the dog has been clearly taught look. You say you ask him to look 5 times. He doesn't know it yet OR what he knows is I don't have to do it until the 4th or 5th time. I would stop asking and at home, I would mark with with a clicker. Play attention game in heel position. Before I'd ask a dog to focus on me the entire time while heeling, I'd make sure they can focus on me for the same length of time sitting. Once you move, you add a distraction, you make it harder. I would find a higher reward than good boy.

He probably knows focus in the house, focus before meals, it does NOT mean he knows focus to heel. Dogs do not generalize well.

I train it without a leash because I want the dog to figure out how to do it. I also lure it. I find it one of the easiest things to lure and fade. I also do not name it. It's part of heel.

 

[arankin]

To me, he does not know what look means in that situation yet so no I would not correct. again I'm not someone who typically uses them but I feel IF you do, you must be fair and be 100% sure (or as close as possible) the dog has been clearly taught look. You say you ask him to look 5 times. He doesn't know it yet OR what he knows is I don't have to do it until the 4th or 5th time. I would stop asking and at home, I would mark with with a clicker. Play attention game in heel position. Before I'd ask a dog to focus on me the entire time while heeling, I'd make sure they can focus on me for the same length of time sitting. Once you move, you add a distraction, you make it harder. I would find a higher reward than good boy.

He probably knows focus in the house, focus before meals, it does NOT mean he knows focus to heel. Dogs do not generalize well.

I train it without a leash because I want the dog to figure out how to do it. I also lure it. I find it one of the easiest things to lure and fade. I also do not name it. It's part of heel.

I'm with Adara on the no correction either. If anything, once Scarlet knows a behaviour and she makes a bit of a mistake I say "oops!!" in the same voice I say "Good girl" or "yes" and continue on. Don't make a big deal of correction. Let's say I am teaching her to sit in heel while I stop, and she messes up. I say oopsies, walk to the other side of the yard and see if she will succeed the next time. If failure is happening too often, you need to go back to basics because they are not ready for what you are asking for yet.

If he is failing to make the eye contact while heeling I agree he just doesn't know the behaviour yet, focus games really will help you, so will the clicker. I was a bit intimidated I would get the timing off with the clicker and how to use it, but now that I do I can't imagine not having one on me at all times!!

 

[Adara]

In class though when we are learning to develop their focus, we don't even introduce a word like "focus" until they know how to do it on their own. An EXCELLENT focus exercise: hold a handful of treats, bring it to their nose let them smell it, pull it away and hold your arm straight out. They will naturally follow your hand, but eventually will make eye contact with you, that is when you "yes" or click and treat (feed from opposite hand).

Here is an example. You can't see my arm, but I have my right arm out straight with a treat in it. I'm trying to mark her eye contact and video so my timing may have been slightly off. I don't need to bring it to Flirt's nose since she's so food driven.

attention - YouTube

 

[sam&macksmom]

Michael Ellis has really good info on focused heeling

Leerburg | Focused Heeling with Michael Ellis

 

[Beaumont67]

Quote:
He has a neurological issue in his lower back which makes it hard for the signals to relay back and forth between his back legs and his brain.
QUESTION:
- should I be correcting him for not responding to the command the first time?
Background:
I think maybe the reason for him being so lazy is that either it's because we don't go hiking or parks or have "run free off leash" time anymore because of school and time constraints. He's lucky to get 2-3 walks a week.
*************

Please no corrections, for lack of Focus.
He may be a lazy bum...dobe just doesn't see all the fun, in his structured walks.
- and it's not more walks he needs
But it could be a medical condition.

Focus may come easier from more engaging play with mental stimulation, involving your constant eye contact.
Getting to the point when your dog has his GPS on you...at all times / and tracking your everyday movements becomes the job of choice...then it should crossover, to the walk.

I believe in these training games...daily (~1 hour, for a month straight):
- tug of war
- fetch
- gonna get you
- muzzle & soft bite control
- hide and seek
Hope this helps some...I just think some of the task efforts, needed to be tweaked.
I'm sure Zeus gets tons of play time...just think of this period, as fun-training with an increased focus element.

 

[Patches Mom]

Ok I'm old school I think it looks dumb to have a dog heeling and staring you in the face its not natural plus I would think it would be hard on the dogs neck. If you are not showing in obedience I would not worry about it just an old timer's opinion. Thank god when I got my CD on my old Bouvier we did not have to do that.If that is what you like Good luck on your training.

 

[Zeus's Mommy]

hmm... all interesting suggestions that I had not thought of.

Thank you Adara for the video. Flirt is so intense but it makes sense how she wants that treat. I guess it makes sense not to name it in a "heel" but then how would you get her focus when you are not heeling with her?

And Beaumont67, I think you are probably right about him being bored with walks. We used to do a lot more when I didn't have school to focus on. I will be making more of an effort to go hiking with him again. He absolutely loved to go hiking.

Clicker training: I've had no experience with and am intimidated by it completely. I have a clicker and tried using it with Zeus a few times. Maybe I was expecting too much too soon, but I got discouraged when he wasn't learning "roll over" or how to "pick it up." I'd really like to have someone to meet up with to show me the technique. Reading about it and watching videos only go so far.

Thank you for all the input. I wouldn't really know how to play a game with him with the point of getting his focus. We play tug and fetch (although he doesn't really care for it too much) and I've not tried hide and seek. How would I play that? Do I need another person to help?

 

[Zeus's Mommy]

Ok I'm old school I think it looks dumb to have a dog heeling and staring you in the face its not natural plus I would think it would be hard on the dogs neck. If you are not showing in obedience I would not worry about it just an old timer's opinion. Thank god when I got my CD on my old Bouvier we did not have to do that.If that is what you like Good luck on your training.

I guess my point really isn't to get him to look at me while heeling but more so to learn to focus on me regardless of distractions. I'd like him to know the walk and training is about he and I alone. Not about the cat or dog across the street or park. I have a hard time breaking his focus on such things sometimes.

On the other hand, having him watch me while heeling would be a plus. What he normally will try and do is lean on me while heeling so that he can watch everything else while still knowing where I am. I give him a hard correction for not turning with me, or auto-sitting or an about face. That being said, he avoids the correction by keeping me physically touching him, thereby, waiving his full focus on me. TOO smart... I have to give him that.

 

[Adara]

hmm... all interesting suggestions that I had not thought of.

Thank you Adara for the video. Flirt is so intense but it makes sense how she wants that treat. I guess it makes sense not to name it in a "heel" but then how would you get her focus when you are not heeling with her?

And Beaumont67, I think you are probably right about him being bored with walks. We used to do a lot more when I didn't have school to focus on. I will be making more of an effort to go hiking with him again. He absolutely loved to go hiking.

Clicker training: I've had no experience with and am intimidated by it completely. I have a clicker and tried using it with Zeus a few times. Maybe I was expecting too much too soon, but I got discouraged when he wasn't learning "roll over" or how to "pick it up." I'd really like to have someone to meet up with to show me the technique. Reading about it and watching videos only go so far.

Thank you for all the input. I wouldn't really know how to play a game with him with the point of getting his focus. We play tug and fetch (although he doesn't really care for it too much) and I've not tried hide and seek. How would I play that? Do I need another person to help?

I am clicker training in the video but using the word yes vs a clicker because I had no more free hands.

There is a game called choose to heel that gets a dog into heel position by their choice. You might find some youtube videos. I tried to do one with Flirt. Not sure if you can tell. I've played enough with her she knows the game. When she gets right in heel position i say yes and give a treat. Please note I give the treat with the wrong hand. It causes a dog to forge and lean into you. I have neck problems and it restricts my movement on the left side.

Flirt choose to heel
choose to heel - YouTube

This is how I start heel - you can do this with the choose to heel game. If the dog isn't getting the choose to heel game, go back to this.

start heel - YouTube
At what times do you want attention? I don't train a look or watch command, but I don't compete in obedience either. When I teach "heel" look at me is part of the command.

 

[Beaumont67]

And Beaumont67, I think you are probably right about him being bored with walks. We used to do a lot more when I didn't have school to focus on. I will be making more of an effort to go hiking with him again. He absolutely loved to go hiking.

Thank you for all the input. I wouldn't really know how to play a game with him with the point of getting his focus. We play tug and fetch (although he doesn't really care for it too much) and I've not tried hide and seek. How would I play that? Do I need another person to help?

While these pictures are 10 y/o...the principles, don't go out of style:
I have talked to my girl (from day1) - like a happy parent verbally communicating to ones young child / to show "training is fun, so I teach"...to make the dog as "language intelligent" as possible.

Structure each full & one sentence, with the defining of: "DOING WHAT & WHY".
example - AMY / DaDa take you outside, for a pee-pee. (out the side door & she turns right)
- AMY, Dad going for a truck ride...Do you want to come? (out the side door & she turns left)
I have also used "baby talk" in an exciting voice by changing "pitch tones", to further grasp my dogs attention.

So the exciting play time, occurs sitting down on the living room floor...with a few favorite toys out.
(getting your eye level to the dogs = zero intimidation)
Then its being, a child at heart / playing with ones dog, using:
- laughter, good smile, high intensity voice, clapping ones hand, patting ones legs, throw in a few whistle sounds, happy posture, made up hand signals, etc.

My wife use to play "peek-a-boo" with our girl.
- she would come in the room with a towel over her head and say the phrase while lowering the cotton
- Amy would get all excited and run to steal the cotton towel
- then my wife use to chase her and the game was on
- get her to finally drop the towel after she had a good prey drive chew & confidence boost...with hugs, kisses and words
- wait a few minutes, and start the game over again
I played tug & fetch daily, trying to make it the most fun thing in her dog world...and the dog has to always be the winner.
- it's not about which one game is better / it's all about how you play the dogs game
Keep building up the bond, and the rest will follow or slide into place...for life long easy results / once the foundation, is set.

At 12 weeks old, looking for direction from my voice...hoping its play time (Amy thinking - Dad we got all night again):

Playing "Dad gonna get you"...so I am winding up my puppy & she is staying in Focus, on me (play fight, just around the corner):
- see my hand in the bottom left hand corner of the photo - dog training 101, sitting on the floor

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Soleil]

At class we learned a focus exercise where you face your dog, put a treat in each hand, and then hold each arm out to your side. The dog of course will eyeball your hands but will look at you and when he does, treat and praise. It really worked well for us. I have also started now asking for focus instead of a sit for various things.

 

[MeadowCat]

If you're interested in learning more about how to use clicker training, I love Kikopup's Youtube channel. She's very clear and easy to understand, and fun! kikopup's Channel - YouTube

 

[GingerGunlock]

I agree, don't correct. Don't repeat 5 times either, though.

If you ask him for focus, or to look at you (whatever you pick for your cue) and he doesn't, stop motion, get his attention, and reward him for it. Then resume the walk. This is what I do, anyway, when Elka and I are walking, I say "look at me", and if she doesn't we immediately stop and I get a good one before we keep going.

I really like clicker work, and find Elka responds well to it, so I'm happy to see it recommended here!

 

[Herb2relax]

Really liked your question and reading all the answers. Of course Adara's vids as always. I remember the first time we did clicker training it was a bit off time and maybe confusing for all of us. Try again and maybe start with something a bit easier. Kyrah & Cujo's first clicker trick, after our initial failure, was while laying down they put their head down. Some of the things may go fast depending on the dog and some take longer. I do know that anything any of them learned from the clicker they remember the best. I remember pivoting for Kyrah I was ready to give up. Once you guys get it tho you will love it! Tippy especially gets so excited she can barely contain herself.

 

[Zeus's Mommy]

I've actually started implementing the suggestion of holding a treat in my hand to the side and waiting for him to look at me without prompting. He's caught on really well Thanks for all the help. I'm definately going to give clicker training another shot.

 

[KevinK]

Firstly, you will never be able to be desireable enough for him to have a strong focus on you if you are not providing him his basic needs. 2-3 walks a week, that's what we do in a standard day lol.

If you are not interacting with your dog often, (I don't mean this to be mean or offensive, please don't take it that way!) you have become boring. That's why your dog doesn't focus on you, and focuses on other things. You can teach a dog a "watch" command, but if you are more interesting than the other things, your dog will gladly WANT to look at you. Not just because you gave a command. This is the best kind of dog, and what I always try to work for. I want my dog to enjoy what we're doing. Training should be a daily thing.

Depending on your dog, a few ways to teach watch can work. You can hold a treat or toy, move it to your face, and when the dog looks into your face, you mark and reward. After some consistent repititions, your dog will begin to associate the command with looking at your face. After that, you can start to work on duration, much like "stay". You don't teach a dog "stay" and expect him to stay there for 10 minutes... If he holds the stay for 2 seconds, he gets rewarded. Then 5 seconds, 10, a minute, etc. Go at the pace of your dog. Once your dog responds to the command, you can start working it into other areas, like focused heeling.

When you're working with treats and rewards, you want to phase out the luring, otherwise your dog may only want to listen when you bribe him with a treat. Once I feel confident that a dog understands a command, I stop treating so much, and I will then reward a string of commands vs. rewarding every time I get a behavior.

Also, if you are "asking" your dog 5 times for a command, what this is doing is teaching the dog if he doesn't want to listen, he won't. If he's not corrected, and you repeat commands, and you're not as interesting to your dog as you could be, think about it from his perspective. Why SHOULD he listen? You have to give him that reason, make him want to listen. Make it fun. Work some play into your training, so training is not boring. Keep doing it every day, and make sure you exercise him more.