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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now I dont think these two are directly related at all, but have been occurring for the same length of time... 4 nights in the past 2 weeks, I have been woken up by my boy at the end of the bed, screaming/yelping/growling/whining in his sleep, I will wake him up as he literally sounds like he is being beat to death, and he always seems very frightened and "out of it", he will then begin shaking very badly (he may have been shaking while 'dreaming' as well, but I didn't notice it until he was awake). Nightmares possibly a result of being beaten/abused?

As for the shaking/tremoring, I realize dobermans are very temperature sensitive, and he usually shakes some when its cold or if I accidentally let our temp run down to 65, but recently hes randomly began shaking at even 68-70. Yesterday, at my dads house, I put a sweater on him because he was cold (the house was at 68 and his ears were cold) He curled up in a ball of blankets and fell asleep (sort of), and became very very warm, and he began getting annoyed with the sweater so i took it off and bundled him in the blankets. By then he was completely warm, almost too warm, and still started shaking very badly. He also became very 'excited' and got super worked up when he saw my dad's cat, and I have never seen him get so aggressive over another animal. While he was laying down, he also growled at the other female corgi who he has never growled at or shown ANY aggression or overtly dominant actions towards ever.

We were just at the vet to have a 'full check up", he had skin scrapings etc, and nothing told us why he has so much lower body and leg hair loss besides allergies. I know some of the hair loss is from from allergies, but despite being on raw and fed NOTHING else, his hair loss is increasing, but itchiness is decreasing.

My question is, could the aggression, onset of excessive shaking, and some of the hairloss possibly be hypothyroidism? I realize it is very common in dobes and he is definently from a BYB with some 'fabulous' breeding, I'm just not sure I want to walk into to vet asking for a blood test and running up another huge vet bill at the moment. How much do tests like T3 an T4 usually run, and should I get it done asap? I will have him tested as soon as i can, but after spending so much on the holidays, it'd be great to know some ballpark price range of how much I will be dropping on a test for hypothyroidism.
 

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I'll address this part. Sam has dober dreams when he's in a deep sleep. He does this high pitched barking thing, almost sounds like an engine trying to start LOL His feet will move too. I don't wake him up as he usually stops after a few minutes. It is kinda scary to hear it for the first time. But I'm used to it now :)



Now I dont think these two are directly related at all, but have been occurring for the same length of time... 4 nights in the past 2 weeks, I have been woken up by my boy at the end of the bed, screaming/yelping/growling/whining in his sleep, I will wake him up as he literally sounds like he is being beat to death, and he always seems very frightened and "out of it", he will then begin shaking very badly (he may have been shaking while 'dreaming' as well, but I didn't notice it until he was awake). Nightmares possibly a result of being beaten/abused?
 

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denormalized
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Call the vet and ask how much for an MSU panel. Or get the vet to draw blood, let it clot, spin it up and then you mail it to Dr. Dodds in CA.

Dr. Jean Dodds - Canine Thyroid Testing | Hemopet.org

It sounds like thyroid and you need a 5 test panel at least for initial dx - just getting a T4 test is not good enough and can be wrong for so many reasons. My vet charges $170 for a 5 panel and Dr. Dodds' cost is under $100 (including vet fee for drawing blood etc and priority mail to Dr. Dodds.
 
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When he has a 'nightmare' are you saying your dog will bark, yelp, whine, as loud as he would when awake? Or are they muffled?

Chase will have many dreams, its quite cute to watch, I watch him bark (muffled), ears twitch, legs moving, and even heavy breathing :)

As for the shaking, Chase is Hypothyroid, I do have to watch his body temp. He will shiver if the basement hits 12C and he is on the floor. He will stop shivering if I cuddle with him, or throw a blanket on. Shivering can also be a symptom of pain, so can aggression.

My only thought on this is to go see a vet and explain EVERYTHING to them. You usually get 20mins-1hour with a vet, your paying for it, so use it up and tell them every detail. Ask them to some Range of Motion, abd. palpation, and all the other normal check ups they can come up with, just in case your dog might be a little ouchy.

I hope this helped a little, good luck!
 

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I have had one dog who had nightmares following an unpleasant experience, but with the shaking I am wondering if he is possibly ill. Are you in a position to take his temperature and see if he is running a fever?
 

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I have had one dog who had nightmares following an unpleasant experience, but with the shaking I am wondering if he is possibly ill. Are you in a position to take his temperature and see if he is running a fever?
Great idea mmctag.
- what should a dobes normal temp. be ? (in *F or *C)
 

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I agree with having Thyroid levels checked and not just the T3/4 done in the vets office. The full panel at MSU or Dr. Jean Dodds.
 
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Thyroid could easily be the culprit and is probably the most likely cause, but I think another possibility to consider is whether you are seeing some form of seizure activity, which can have lots of causes.

It's time for the vet's diagnostic skills--be sure to tell him about the seeming nightmares, the trembling and the changes in behavior (fear, aggression, over excitement). If you can, try to document when you are seeing these various behaviors and if they seem to be connected so you can give the vet as many diagnostic clues as possible with an idea of how much of a change you have seen in your pupper recently. Don't let him talk you into "all dogs have nightmares" as an explanation.

Now my disclaimer--I am not a vet. But I hope you get some answers soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
about the nightmares: His whines/whimpers are full volume as if he is awake. I have NEVER heard him whine or whimper or scream like that with him awake, but if its loud enough to wake me up, it has to be quite loud as I sleep with tons of background noise. My horses have dreams in which they may let out a low nicker and run in their sleep, but this is full volume and very loud/distinct.

Thank you everyone for the advice, I am going to have his thryoid tested, not sure if I'll let the vet do it or send it off, but the last vet I saw (2 weeks ago) was a prick! Despite me being a medical student, he still acted like I had 0 say in 'diagnosing' or even explaining his symptoms, he interrupted me everytime I spoke, and told me nothing I didn't already know. He gave him his yearly shots and through some prednisone and antibiotics at us and shood us off. A friend of mine recently had her dog treated for hypothyroidism and he has turned around completely, I'll probably check out her vet next.

Thanks everyone! :D Oh, and when he was shaking at a reasonable temperature, I did take his temp and it was in the normal range.
 

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We were just at the vet to have a 'full check up", he had skin scrapings etc, and nothing told us why he has so much lower body and leg hair loss besides allergies. I know some of the hair loss is from from allergies, but despite being on raw and fed NOTHING else, his hair loss is increasing, but itchiness is decreasing.

My question is, could the aggression, onset of excessive shaking, and some of the hairloss possibly be hypothyroidism?.
I don't want to sound harsh about your vet, but if you were just in with these issues, I'm a bit surprised the vet didn't suggest this already.

Ah..sorry just saw the other post and YES try a new vet :)
 
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Re: possible seizure activity - if you can get a video of your dog during the "shaking" episodes to show the vet, that would be really helpful. Elke has epilepsy and she started with unusual shaking when there was no other cause for it. Hers are head tremors which seem to come from the upper chest area (I can feel this while she is laying down and it starts) but there are all kinds of seizures. Videos are great because the vet can see what is actually happening.
 

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Sasha my old Boxer suddenly started to shiver or shake. I took her to the vet thinking she had developed Epilepsy or the like, however, my vet carried out lots of tests including one on her Thryroid but it came back okay. However, her blood sugar level didnt.
Her symptoms were shaking, increased aggression, (growling at my other dogs), sleepiness, she often felt cold to the touch. If you can afford to get your vet to check your dogs sugar levels I would strongly advise it as well as the thyroid test.

:kiss:
 
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