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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
In browsing for available adult Dobermans I have noticed that European Dobies with natural ears seem to have smaller ear flaps than Americans. Are they being bred for smaller flaps? lt would seem good since a number of countries don't allow cropping and smaller flaps get away from a hound look.

I am a senior seeking a companion dog but the agencies are hard to work with. It seems that they want too much information from me so I have drifted to craigslist.com. I guess I am contrary but don't like having to prove myself worthy of dog ownership.

Dog Carnivore Dog breed Working animal Fawn
Dog Dog breed Carnivore Companion dog Sporting Group
 

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Hi! Welcome!

In the first picture you posted, it looks like the puppy has been cropped. He just hasn't been posted long enough for his ears to stand upright.

I don't know the answer to your question, but it would seem unlikely to me that people are giving much attention to the length of the ears (though they do give attention to the way the ears sit on the dog's head--too low an ear-set gives the top of the dog's head a rounder shape, which isn't what people want to see in dobes)

But that's just my guess; I don't really know.
 

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In browsing for available adult Dobermans I have noticed that European Dobies with natural ears seem to have smaller ear flaps than Americans. Are they being bred for smaller flaps? lt would seem good since a number of countries don't allow cropping and smaller flaps get away from a hound look.

I am a senior seeking a companion dog but the agencies are hard to work with. It seems that they want too much information from me so I have drifted to craigslist.com. I guess I am contrary but don't like having to prove myself worthy of dog ownership.

View attachment 154947 View attachment 154948
It's kind of the other way around. The dogs in places where they crop (like the in the USA) actually have been bred for a larger longer ear.

The non-crop- areas probably have ears that are more like what ears on Dobes looked like many years ago.

Well, you may think that "agencies"--what agencies--I've always dealt with breeders not agencies--and they all want a lot of information. The puppies they produce (the better breeders anyway) are the end result of their blood sweat adn tears. And for many of them it's almost like selling a child.

They want them to go to the best possible home and they want them to stay in the home. Dobe puppies are a trial and tribulation to raise--but properly raised and trained--not a job for all folk--they make absolutely wonderful companions.

I've been doing this since 1959 (and tried to stop when I had to part with a 14 year old dog--thinking I was too old for raising another bad lil' Dobe pup)--the short story is that the resident cat had other ideas and when I came back from the vet--having had my 14 year old boy put to sleep if found out quite quickly that the cat regarded that dog as his dog and he wanted to know what I'd done with him.

So I borrowed a 6 month old puppy from a breeder I knew--and he's still her--that cat says he was the wrong color but he is a Doberman and that's good enough.

And frankly I'd be really reluctant to go to Craig's list for any kind of animal.

If I was looking for a Doberman for the first time I'd probably go to the DPCA.org (Doberman Pinscher Club of America--and look at their breeder list. Or to the UDC (United Doberman Club) and do the same thing--they'll still ask a lot of questions. But so do rescues but there are a number of Doberman specific rescue where you can find adult Dobes. Some cropped, some uncropped. And some in rescue through not fault of theirs--(death of an elderly owner whose family didn't want the dog--things like that).

But good luck.

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
It's not my first time, I had a Dobe (female) years ago (medium crop). Then a wolf-dog until he passed. I have outlived my vet and I am not about to open my home to strangers. Some Dobe is going to miss out on a good home unless one shows up on Craigslist with a nice medium ear crop or small natural ears.

Here's a prime example of ridiculous ears IMO.
Dog Carnivore Dog breed Dobermann Fawn
 

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It's not my first time, I had a Dobe (female) years ago (medium crop). Then a wolf-dog until he passed. I have outlived my vet and I am not about to open my home to strangers. Some Dobe is going to miss out on a good home unless one shows up on Craigslist with a nice medium ear crop or small natural ears.

Here's a prime example of ridiculous ears IMO.

View attachment 154952
To be fair, that's a young puppy who will grow into those long ears. My boy looked much the same as a puppy, but his ears suit him just fine now.
Dog Liver Tree Carnivore Dog breed



In regards to trouble working with agencies (I am assuming you mean rescues?), I do know it can be frustrating. As someone who has worked in rescue for nearly 2 decades now, I can say that many of the dogs who come in and need a new home have been to hell and back already. We work hard to be sure each dog/animal has the best chance at finding their forever home. In order to find the best match, we need a lot of information. Typical information we seek is past animal ownership and vet records for those animals (we call the vet), as previous performance is a good indicator of what someone will do in the future. We do home visits to see where and how the animal will be kept because anyone can say anything on an application or email. We talk to references, we ask what goals you have for the dog (no judgement involved here, many people just want a couch potato). Again, all done in the best interest of each animal. If we had no rules or standards, these dogs would end up in a mess all over again. It is a hard "job", volunteering with rescue, but it is very much needed and, when things go right, feels amazing. Just wanted to give you info from the other side of the coin.

Best wishes in your search.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
To be fair, that's a young puppy who will grow into those long ears. My boy looked much the same as a puppy, but his ears suit him just fine now.
View attachment 154953


In regards to trouble working with agencies (I am assuming you mean rescues?), I do know it can be frustrating. As someone who has worked in rescue for nearly 2 decades now, I can say that many of the dogs who come in and need a new home have been to hell and back already. We work hard to be sure each dog/animal has the best chance at finding their forever home. In order to find the best match, we need a lot of information. Typical information we seek is past animal ownership and vet records for those animals (we call the vet), as previous performance is a good indicator of what someone will do in the future. We do home visits to see where and how the animal will be kept because anyone can say anything on an application or email. We talk to references, we ask what goals you have for the dog (no judgement involved here, many people just want a couch potato). Again, all done in the best interest of each animal. If we had no rules or standards, these dogs would end up in a mess all over again. It is a hard "job", volunteering with rescue, but it is very much needed and, when things go right, feels amazing. Just wanted to give you info from the other side of the coin.

Best wishes in your search.
Nice Dobe! Still a bit tall for me but that's just me. I do understand the other side of the issue. If I were to find a candidate close by I think the breeder or rescue agency could get to know me w/o a home invasion. I had interest in a Carolina Dog (American Dingo) and kinda got to know (via email exchange and telecons) the biologist responsible for recognition of the breed. He offered me a pup but I wanted to rehome an adult. I tried Petfinder but the dog was 3 hrs away. It would have required 3 round trips to seal the deal if approved. I offered to do it all in one trip but never heard back. Here's a CD pic if your not familiar with the breed.
Dog Plant Dog breed Tree Carnivore
 

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It's not my first time, I had a Dobe (female) years ago (medium crop). Then a wolf-dog until he passed. I have outlived my vet and I am not about to open my home to strangers. Some Dobe is going to miss out on a good home unless one shows up on Craigslist with a nice medium ear crop or small natural ears.

Here's a prime example of ridiculous ears IMO.
View attachment 154952
That is a well done long show crop. And yes, they look XL on that pup but eventually they will look perfect as the head matures.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The medium crop on my girl turned out well. However I had seen so many bad crops that I was fearful going in. And that was before the extra tall spiky look became popular. IIRC her ears were taped only a few weeks and no posts back then. Of course if I find an adult to adopt I won't have to go through all that but I'll seek a crop more proportional to head size.

In beauty a regal Dobie is second only to a well bred wolf-dog (which is hard to find).
 

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I don't think they are breeding euros to have smaller ears, the second photo you post is a dobe with the ear pointing to the sides. Doesn't look small to me, just normal size with low ear set.
My girl is american and has small ears cause she is petite but her ear set is correct. I mean, the size of the ear should be in harmony with the head whether they are floppy or cropped.

In regards to Craigslist... I don't live in America but here if you want a well bred dobe you go to the Dobermann Club or the FCI. If I were a breeder I would be asking a lot of questions. Reputable breeders do and extraordinary job raising the pups, taking care of all their other dogs, studying genetics and making planifications for the future always trying to bred to the standard and correct their dogs weak points. In Craigslist you don't even know what you are getting. Just be patience and have some empathy for the breeders, and keep in mind that many are looking foward to keep in touch with the new owners.
 

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The medium crop on my girl turned out well. However I had seen so many bad crops that I was fearful going in. And that was before the extra tall spiky look became popular. IIRC her ears were taped only a few weeks and no posts back then. Of course if I find an adult to adopt I won't have to go through all that but I'll seek a crop more proportional to head size.

In beauty a regal Dobie is second only to a well bred wolf-dog (which is hard to find).
If you are looking for and adult dog is more important his temperament since you would not had raised him and you dont know what your are dealing with. The size or crop of the ears is meanless.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
If you are looking for and adult dog is more important his temperament since you would not had raised him and you dont know what your are dealing with. The size or crop of the ears is meanless.
The crop of the ears are not the only thing but it's something I would be looking at every day so I want it to be right. Here's what Dobies looked like when I fell in love with the breed. Obviously others don't agree with me thus the standard has drifted. But for me as with art the proportion is important. This is Ch Rancho's Dobe Storm.
Dog Dog breed Carnivore Terrestrial animal Snout
 

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When you say you want all of these specifics and are thinking of Craig’s list, it’s like saying you want a specific diamond ring with a certain color and clarity and you think you’ll find it at Value Village (Good Will) store. It may just be coming across that way unintentionally, but it sounds a little unreasonable to me for you to expect someone or some agency to hand over a living being with specific needs without making sure you will provide everything it needs. I sure wouldn’t. If you do end up finding a dobe on Craigs list, it wouldn’t surprise me to see a post that it has issues and you need help on how to fix them. Not trying to be mean, just suggesting you take another look at your expectations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Nah, I just view craigslist every day. I have seen some good candidates but they were too far away for a go see. My son found a nice wolf-dog on craigslist. The price went from $700 to $350 and finally free. He was also given the breeder's phone number and had a good discussion with the breeder. It just takes patience to find what one wants and rehoming a good Dobe with me will be a win for me and definitely a win for the dog. Some people find themselves in dire situations and need help. One just has to be able to discern.

I served a few years as director of a crisis pregnancy center. It's ironic but at that time it was easier for our enemy to take a girl for an abortion (w/o her parents permission) than it is to adopt a dog.
 

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Nah, I just view craigslist every day. I have seen some good candidates but they were too far away for a go see. My son found a nice wolf-dog on craigslist. The price went from $700 to $350 and finally free. He was also given the breeder's phone number and had a good discussion with the breeder. It just takes patience to find what one wants and rehoming a good Dobe with me will be a win for me and definitely a win for the dog. Some people find themselves in dire situations and need help. One just has to be able to discern.

I served a few years as director of a crisis pregnancy center. It's ironic but at that time it was easier for our enemy to take a girl for an abortion (w/o her parents permission) than it is to adopt a dog.
I don't know that those are two things that can ever be compared in a tactful way..... A woman who made her own choice about her life and someone having the luxury of adopting a companion. You clearly have a very specific list of what you're looking for in a dog, where you're willing to find it, and what you're willing to do to facilitate acquiring it, so I don't know what it is we can help with.
 
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