[AchillesCS]

I have a 5 month old puppy that I've been on/off posting his ears for a little over a month. We have had to discontinue posting for a week or so because of an infection, but he's ok now.

I have already have all of my posting supplies including zonas porus tape & backer rod. We had his ears croppped by Dr. Crouch in Katy, TX and we are following her method of wrapping - which uses the 'figure 8' method to support the ears.

They said his wrappings should last anywhere between 5-7 days, but we have had to wrap them usually on the third day or less! He's pretty tough on them.. He lays on his back playing with toys and rolls all over them. We try to catch him and stop it when possible, but we're not always successful (typical puppy behavior, right?)

So my question to all of you is: Should I rewrap/repost his ears if one of his ears begins to lean inward while wrapped? Do you think a popsicle stick brace in between the ears would help?

Any help is appreciated!!! I will try to post a picture in a moment of his current wrap.

 

[AchillesCS]

Notice in the picture how his right ear is leaning inward.. That's what is concerning me. Should I be concerned or is this normal? I really don't want his ears to develop inward with the tips touching when he's older..

 

[o0 sHaDoWoLf 0o]

I have tried a few methods and what works for me about preventing the posts to bend. I used a tampon, widened the cotton for a cushion on the bottom of the ear. Taped the sting down and then cut it, taped the middle to stabilize. Then back tape it and begin post. It stays really stable and doesn't bend after a hard sleep or hard play.

 

[MeadowCat]

I would be a bit concerned about that ear leaning in. Are you wrapping the posts with duct tape to firm them up a bit? Then "backwrapping" with your Zonas tape to help the ear really stick to the post?

Maybe check out this thread and see if there is someone near you who might be able to help? http://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-c...ll-help-new-owners-ears-please-post-here.html

I wouldn't expect posts to last 7 days. 5 days, maybe, at the outside.

 

[Dobiewankanobi]

My pup had his ears cropped by Dr. Crouch also. Additionally, that right ear leaning in is a pocket. My pup also developed this.

If you're using Crouch's tape method then you're using the rolled paper towels. They don't duct tape those or use anything to make them stronger which was a bit of a problem for my rough and tumble pup. About 2 hours in and he'd have the paper towel posts all bent up.

What I did and what I recommend, is that you look up the tutorial here and start using the backer rod method. When I started that I did NOT use a brace. It's unneccessary.

Using the backer rod method my pups ears corrected themselves. See below. The first row is using Crouch's method and the bottom row is after I started using the backer rods instead. I'm in Katy. If you're close and need help I'd be happy to assist. Just PM me.

 

[Dobiewankanobi]

Also, from what I can tell in your picture you've wrapped these yourself. You might remember when Crouch's staff does the figure 8 brace that they actually tape those to the very bottom of the ear where it connects to the head and they do it very loosely. From your picture it appears that you have it further up on the ear (away from the base) and that it's a bit tight.

 

[Jennie ATX]

I would try what Meadow suggests and use a layer of duct tape on the rod before backtaping it with the Zonas tape. That might give it a little more stiffness.

And yes I would replace a post if it got bent like that. I'd worry about the ear forming a pocket or something.

 

[LindaH]

Let Dobiewankanobi help you!!!

 

[o0 sHaDoWoLf 0o]

if your vet/ breeder wants you to still use the bridge, then still use the bridge. Depending on your pup and their ear set tht might still need or not. Odin is 16 weeks old and my breeder still has me using a bridge. She is a very well known breeder, vet tech , and handler. So I have a lot of trusrt in her opinions.

play around with different methods and see what works for you.

 

[dobebug]

Hey AchillesCS,

I got your pm and then took a look at this thread and actually got the information I was asking about. I don't like backer rod--it's too flimsy for my taste even duct taped to add rigidity. And I don't like the tampon method--they are actually so rigid that for any puppy that has sensitive ears they can cause impressive sores very quickly.

I posted for years with paper towels rolled and TAPED--not just rolled--they were taped once with either Zonas tape and then back taped with another layer of zonas tape or the under layer was plain old masking tape and then back taped with zonas tape.

I'm not sure what you have going is really a pocket--some puppies have odd creases in their ears and it looks like what ever you are using as a post isn't rigid enough. So either make your own posts with paper towels and you want to roll them tight so they are quite stiff. Or, what I've been using lately has been pipe insulation. It comes sized for the outside diameter of ordinary plumbing and I prefer 1/2" but 3/4" will also work fine. I cut the insulation into a length that is longer than the ear plus the distance is will be seated in the base of the ear and split the pipe insulation into quarters. It cuts easily with scissors. I round the base that goes into the ear and then tape it so it curves even more than the curve it has naturally--this stiffens it some more. I take a little cotton and put it at the end I trimmed which goes into the ear and back tape it in place and back tape the entire piece of insulation.

When you insert the post you've made into the ear make sure you push it all the way into the ear and that it is adhering to the inside of the ear. Tip the ear and post out to about an 11:00 position on the right ear and 1:00 on the left ear. I would not put a brace in but if you do make sure it is looser than the one you have in that picture--you want the ears to tip OUT a little.

If the ear is bent or tipping in you should take that ear down and repost it. In the picture it looks like his left ear is fine but his right ear needs to be reposted.

I don't know what your temperatures are like right now but in the Pacific Northwest it's usually not getting to 70 degrees any more so the puppies I've been working with recently are able to have ears up for up to 7 days (given they don't get wet or the puppy isn't scratching at them endlessly which often means something is going on under the tape and you need to take the post down and see just what's happening).

Good luck--you can e-mail me privately if you have more questions but I don't always check DT during the week so use the e-mail addy I gave you on the pm.

 

[AchillesCS]

I would like to start saying Thank you SOOO much!! to everyone who has taken the effort to help me through this.. I was getting worried I may find out too late.. I am so glad I posted on these forums and I will try my best to answer all of the questions..


We just finished rewrapping his ears.. Here is what he looked like once we took those leaning posts off:

(.. more pictures of the wrap we did tonight on the way..)

 

[AchillesCS]

Are you wrapping the posts with duct tape to firm them up a bit? Then "backwrapping" with your Zonas tape to help the ear really stick to the post?

Maybe check out this thread and see if there is someone near you who might be able to help?

I have read not to use duct tape, so I've stayed far away from it.. We were using the paper towel method (as recommended by Dr. Crouch) - but we had read about the Backer Rod and just got it in the mail - so we used that tonight.. It seems to be much more stable.

I had already been snooping around and found that thread (which is very useful) and had contacted a few people - including DobeBug. Two steps ahead of you I guess but thank you! :supergrin:

My pup had his ears cropped by Dr. Crouch also. Additionally, that right ear leaning in is a pocket. My pup also developed this.

If you're using Crouch's tape method then you're using the rolled paper towels. They don't duct tape those or use anything to make them stronger which was a bit of a problem for my rough and tumble pup. About 2 hours in and he'd have the paper towel posts all bent up.

Also, from what I can tell in your picture you've wrapped these yourself. You might remember when Crouch's staff does the figure 8 brace that they actually tape those to the very bottom of the ear where it connects to the head and they do it very loosely. From your picture it appears that you have it further up on the ear (away from the base) and that it's a bit tight.

Wow! Our dobies ears almost look identical and they seem to be going through the same thing - how ironic! Thank you SO MUCH; Your post has been so helpful and its reassuring to know that I have someone to compare to - since it's somewhat difficult to plan an entire day off to drive the 1 1/2 hrs to Katy to visit the vet.. I took some more detailed pictures of how we've been wrapping them tonight from different angles - so please tell me if you see anything incorrect.. I think the last photo was a bad angle - because we are really careful about laying the tape loosely around the ear at the base. This will be our first night using our recently delivered Backer Rod.

if your vet/ breeder wants you to still use the bridge, then still use the bridge. Depending on your pup and their ear set tht might still need or not. Odin is 16 weeks old and my breeder still has me using a bridge. She is a very well known breeder, vet tech , and handler. So I have a lot of trusrt in her opinions.

The breeder recently had a baby, herself - so she's been a bit pre-occupied at the moment - and due to the time-sensitive nature of this, I've looked into asking other sources..
The vet who preformed the crop practices in Katy, TX - which makes it a bit difficult to check on progress.. They told me after showing me how to wrap the ears for the first time that the follow-up appointments from then on out are optional and would be an additional charge (not to mention a day off of work and a hefty gas bill)



Dobebug, I'm going to email you. Thank you!

 

[AchillesCS]

Achilles' posts on 10/24/2011

Here are a few pictures of his most recent post from earlier tonight. I used Zonas porus tape, 5/8 diameter Backer Rod, and the 'figure 8' method (as recommended by the vet):

​

Comments/Suggestions welcome. 3 hours after put up and so far - so good..

 

[MeadowCat]

I have read not to use duct tape, so I've stayed far away from it.. We were using the paper towel method (as recommended by Dr. Crouch) - but we had read about the Backer Rod and just got it in the mail - so we used that tonight.. It seems to be much more stable.

I'm suggesting using duct tape only to strengthen the posts, not to use to wrap the ears. As in, wrap duct tape around the posts (sticky side ON the posts) to make them more firm. Then you'd take your regular tape (Zonas) and back wrap over the duct tape. No duct tape would be on the pup's ears. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that!

 

[Dobiewankanobi]

Wrap looks much better with the backer rods! And the brace looks like it's positioned loosely. I tend to like the ears positioned more at 10 and 2. Seems like it was more beneficial to my pup's ears than the 11 and 1 which is straight up. Loosening the brace should allow the ears to move to 10 and 2, but I found that my pup's ears naturally stood there without the brace. I also tape the bottom of the ear with the longer piece of tape to cover up the exposed post. No real reason other than it kept Koa's foot from trying to pop the post out!

As for the ear, I still think your pup's right ear is in the beginning stage of a pocket, but it could just be that the tip is bent inward. I know Crouch's office recommends leaving the tip exposed and for good reason--so you know where to cut, but I generally cover the tips every other wrapping because my pup had tips that would crease and look wierd.

And like Meadow said, never use duct tape on the ear itself for obvious reasons. I use it to wrap the backer rod just like the tutorial does. Then I back wrap over the duct tape with Zonas tape before placing in the dogs ear. I have started tapering the end of the post that goes into the ear. The 5/8 was a little too wide for my pup and the 1/2 was much too small. Tapering the end ensured that I could get it positioned as far into the ear as necessary.

Also, the picture shown above...the comparison I posted of my pup...there is only 2 days difference between those pictures. Many people have success with the backer rods. In 2 days he had significant improvement.

 

[Dobiewankanobi]

Here's a picture from when I first started using the backer rods. I wanted to give you an example of the 10 and 2 position.