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Looking for pros and cons on e collars. What are good ones to buy etc brand names and why???
 

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I would not purchase an e collar unless you are incredibly experienced with one. You need to work with a highly skilled trainer who can guide you on the proper technique, otherwise you will do more damage to your dog than help.

pros : very useful tool when needed, and when used properly. can help proof off leash obedience and long distance recalls. great for deaf dogs (vibrate function!)

cons : anyone can buy them, and use them incorrectly or out of anger instead of actually teaching their dogs
 

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I would not purchase an e collar unless you are incredibly experienced with one. You need to work with a highly skilled trainer who can guide you on the proper technique, otherwise you will do more damage to your dog than help.

pros : very useful tool when needed, and when used properly. can help proof off leash obedience and long distance recalls. great for deaf dogs (vibrate function!)

cons : anyone can buy them, and use them incorrectly or out of anger instead of actually teaching their dogs
Yes my thinking as well that's why I am posting for information.. Are there courses available on how to use them properly?
 

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Not online, that I know of. I'd start with training classes in yor area, where you go with your dog to class. Then, if needed, find an experienced handler who can help show you how to use one.

How old is your dog? What training have you done with the dog thus far? What methods? E collars aren't needed for a lot of training areas.
 

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Not online, that I know of. I'd start with training classes in yor area, where you go with your dog to class. Then, if needed, find an experienced handler who can help show you how to use one.

How old is your dog? What training have you done with the dog thus far? What methods? E collars aren't needed for a lot of training areas.
Nitro has been through basic obedience one and two and basic commands. Batted by treats But I will admitted finding a quality trainer has been challenging. . We live in the Kelowna area in British Columbia and find a wide verity of trainer's at a high price .. Nitro is a 9 month old male but always pushes the issue of jumping and biteing he knows he is in the wrong but just not willing to stop.. he is not always willing to come when called and will bolt when not on leash or in fenced area.. continually wimpers when in the back of the SUV and goes into a little bit of attack mode when coming across stranger s to him.. no e training that's why I am posting hear to gather information. . One thing I am amazed with is everyone is an expert and everyone has the answer if you have the money when some could not even train a bee to make honey if you get what I'm saying ..
 

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I would NEVER try and learn to use an e-collar online or from a DVD - if you can't find a good trainer well experienced in using one, then I would go another route.
You also say he is 9 months old - "doberteen" - an age where they push and challenge you, and much of that good obedience (temporarily) goes out the window. Keep up the training, be patient, be firm, try and not get agitated, which only makes it worse.
It will get better!!
 

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For sure you need an experienced trainer to teach you. It is all in the working level of the dog and the correct timing.
They can be misused just like any other training device like chain choker, prong collars.

We have had Dogtra 1902 NCP 2 dog model for the past 4 yrs. Have had no problems with them. Did have to change the batteries after about 3 yrs. Totally waterproof. Sure they have new models out.
 

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Mine was purchased from Cabellas. They were cheaper than any of the collars I could buy wholesale from catalogs (pet equp) I had trouble with Emmy running the landlords cattle and I used it for that. It didn't take long to train her to stay away from the cattle.
 

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I have had very good luck with Tri-Tronics. I have one that is ~13 yrs old and 2 others that are ~5 yrs old. They are waterproof, have something like a 1/2 mile range, have tone/pulse/continuous stim, and the 2 collars can be controlled/adjusted with one remote (the remote can also control a 3rd collar). The antenna for remote for the old collar got half chewed up by one of the dogs, but a little electrical tape and it still works fine.
Like others said, spend the extra money to get a good reliable one if you're going to buy one. I've also heard very good things about Dogtra.

As others have said, it is a training tool and something that can be used correctly and humanely or something that can be abused or make a problem worse. If a person is not skilled at training in general (understanding timing of corrections and rewards, levels of correction, making sure the dog understands what is expected, rewarding desired behavior, etc), he/she has no business trying to use one. And the same would be true of other collars - prong collars, head halters, choke chains, etc.

My dogs get super excited and start jumping around when I get out the remote collars -- to them it means running around off leash.

Many of the newer collars have options for a tone or vibration which can either be used as a warning or can be used as a marker for desired behavior (like a clicker or verbal "good"). Again timing is everything in training and if you are not skilled at timing rewards & corrections correctly you will only confuse the dog and make things worse.

It's also a good idea to keep going to obedience classes -- many places have open classes where you can work on whatever your dog needs. It is good mental stimulation and helps keep the info fresh in their minds. Dogs are also very situational -- it's important to train things in different environments -- just because they know how to do something in obedience class doesn't mean that transfers to when they are out on a walk or at home or whatever.
 

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I like the Dogtra IQ (the "Plus" version allows one remote to pair with two collars). They have a stimulus level knob that is quick & easy to adjust. They're simple and well-designed.

I don't know what the DVDs talk about, and there are plenty of bad trainers out there who are plenty clueless, you have to KNOW you're dealing with a trainer who has half a clue if you're to rely on their advice.

You probably won't go too wrong as long as you think of the e-collar as an extension of your voice and your reach. If the vibrate/"page" setting isn't what you're using at least 95% of the time when you push a button, you're probably in need of a different strategy.

These collars are good as a safety net for recall that's already fairly strong, that's all I use them for. They allow more freedom to good dogs who might need a gentle reminder to refocus from something they see as prey or a threat, back to me.

As far as using them as a correction when trying to reinforce recall, the dog absolutely has to understand that the correction is because he is going the wrong way-- that assumes he knows he's supposed to go to you rather than bolting away & is simply being hard-headed. It's up to you to set that understanding, which you can do by starting out with a page, then a light tickle level of stim, then progressively stronger stim as he ignores and moves farther away, with negative reinforcement (i.e., relief from an unpleasant stimulus) given IMMEDIATELY if he turns in the right direction.

As far as applying an electric stimulus to a dog that's whining or whimpering due to stress, or barking in reaction to a perceived threat, NO! You don't want to pile on, all that does is make the situation worse. Just as Pavlov used classical conditioning to get a dog to salivate at the sound of a bell once he associated the peal to feeding time, applying an unpleasant correction to a dog when he's in a car or sees a stranger/strange dog is only going to teach him that these are extremely unpleasant experiences, and he is justified in crying or going ballistic. Socialization/desensitization is what is required, keeping cool and calming him rather than ratcheting-up the pressure and angst levels will help him get past this. If you were feeling carsick or anxious, would being shouted-at or being tazed help make you feel better, or worse? Just think of it in those terms.

I can totally understand how unpleasant & frustrating taking a dog for a ride is when they either whine or bark at everything. Kira used to be extremely fussy the first couple miles when traveling in a vehicle, and she still barks at all the bicyclists & pedestrians, and especially at the panhandling bums when we go into town, because I don't take her to town all that often. About all you can do is buy earplugs and go for lots of drives until he just gets over it.

Find something that he likes to reward him if he'll take his focus off confronting strangers. Sometimes treats work, sometimes a favorite squeaky toy. It's okay if he's suspicious, just not if he reacts. At first, reward him with a treat or toy if he changes focus back to you, then only if he doesn't react in the first place and looks to you. Again, associating encounters with strangers with a shock or other unpleasantness is going to be counterproductive.

I guess it all boils down to the three questions you must ask yourself before pushing the button:

1) Does he understand what you want/why you're correcting him?
2) Does he know what he needs to do in response to the correction to make it stop?
3) Is pushing the button going to make the situation better, or will it make things worse?
 

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Are there any E-collars that have a 1 mile range on them?
Look for bird dog marketed/branded e collars , many brands made for pointers and the like have a much greater distance such as a mile :)

You may end up finding paired sets only but I've seen some go pretty far.
 

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The only brand I trust and recommend is Dogtra. E collars are not the item to skimp and save a few bucks on.
Dogtra's are crap compared to an e-collar technologies educator. I like everyone at our club used to use a Dogtra until the "Einstein" (name changed later to educator). The educator has low stim and boost buttons for a variety of training approaches. Also the Dogtra build quality went to crap. At one time with the 20 members of our club we were experiencing about a 50% fail rate within a year of purchase with the Dogtra.

From the customer service, to the build quality, to the quality of the collar the Educator is the best choice there is. Period.
 

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Dogtra's are crap compared to an e-collar technologies educator. I like everyone at our club used to use a Dogtra until the "Einstein" (name changed later to educator). The educator has low stim and boost buttons for a variety of training approaches. Also the Dogtra build quality went to crap. At one time with the 20 members of our club we were experiencing about a 50% fail rate within a year of purchase with the Dogtra.

From the customer service, to the build quality, to the quality of the collar the Educator is the best choice there is. Period.
Interesting, apart from batteries I've never had a failure with Dogtra but I'll check out Educator.
 

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I personally think your dog is too young and has not had enough foundation training work to introduce an e-collar. I also think you need an in person trainer to work with.

I did not introduce an e-collar until Richter was two years old and I *knew* he was extremely solid on his commands. Like Rosamburg, I use the E-collar Technologies collar (formerly marketed as Einstein brand). I use the Mini Educator, which has levels from 1-100 of stimulation. I worked with a highly skilled trainer one on one to learn how to use the collar with Richter.

I think you can easily ruin a good dog if you mis-use an e-collar, and a lot of people do. I strongly recommend you do not do this yet, and you do not do it without a highly skilled trainer in person. It is not an "easy fix" tool to problems that can be solved through putting more work into training your dog.
 

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I think you can easily ruin a good dog if you mis-use an e-collar, and a lot of people do. I strongly recommend you do not do this yet, and you do not do it without a highly skilled trainer in person. It is not an "easy fix" tool to problems that can be solved through putting more work into training your dog.
I'm not disputing that e-collars can be bad tools in the wrong hands but what I'd like to hear is a clinical description of a "ruined" dog as a result. As in what the actual negative effects are; not the one in a million horror stories but everyday consequences of misuse.

I've heard and read far too many emotional, borderline nonsensical, arguments against them over the years. I am in no way, lumping you into that category - please understand that. I'd just appreciate it if someone could direct me to objective research/findings - not PETA hype.
 

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I'm not disputing that e-collars can be bad tools in the wrong hands but what I'd like to hear is a clinical description of a "ruined" dog as a result. As in what the actual negative effects are; not the one in a million horror stories but everyday consequences of misuse.

I've heard and read far too many emotional, borderline nonsensical, arguments against them over the years. I am in no way, lumping you into that category - please understand that. I'd just appreciate it if someone could direct me to objective research/findings - not PETA hype.
I can't link you to studies, and I'm certainly not a PETA fan. However, I'm a pretty good reader of dog body language, and I see a heck of a lot of dogs out and about in parks with e-collars on, our out "training" with their people. I've spent several years studying behavior and training, and I generally have a pretty good read on when dogs are showing stress, and I see a LOT of dogs in e-collars showing a LOT of stress. I also see a lot that are disregarding their owners commands, getting increasingly higher levels of corrections. I see collars being used incorrectly, unhappy dogs, etc. And I also have quite a few friends who are professional trainers who see the fallout when collars are misused, so I've heard quite a few of those stories firsthand. It's not a small number.

I say all that as someone who DOES use an e-collar, isn't anti-e-collar, etc. I do think they can be a good tool, properly used. But a lot of people buy cheap collars that don't function well, slap them on the dog and start just pushing the stim button when their dog misbehaves, having no idea how to correctly use it. And that's the kind of thing that gives e-collars such a horrible reputation.
 

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Meadow Cat, thank you and I agree with the examples you offer. However, stress is often situational and temporary. "Ruined" is a very strong word that gets tossed around quite often and that's what I'd like to see substantiated if anyone can.
 
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