Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is there any benefit for pet owners to apply for a membership with the DPCA? Can pet owners apply for membership or better yet, will pet owners be approved for membership?
Just curious really... Was researching more on albinos and have spent a significant amount of time at dpca.org and the links provided there today... It is a truly wonderful site with tons of invaluable information. Wondered if my $30.00 membership dues would help with research, rescue or whatever...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Pet owners can certainly apply and unless they've done "bad things" (byb, breeding albinos, animal cruelty, etc.) that people know about, they should be approved. I joined when all I had was rescue dobes. You do have to have two DPCA members sign your application. Your name and your sponsors are then posted and if someone has a problem with your joining, they write to the board.

I don't honestly know what dues is used for. Members do get a publication called the Pipeline 4 or so times a year with Club information.

You can donate separately to rescue and health research.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
"Was researching more on albinos and have spent a significant amount of time at dpca.org and the links provided there today... It is a truly wonderful site with tons of invaluable information."

I agree, it's a highly informative site, even though the design is cumbersome at best. However, in doing research before we got Karma, I had very poor experience with one of the officers that _totally_ soured me on them. She lives in the same part of NC as I do and her number was listed on the site so I gave her a call to inquire about reputable breeders in our general vicinity. She was very enthusiastic at first as we talked about the temperment and quality of Dobes and how they are generally misunderstood by the general public. I told her what I was looking for, stressing pet quality - not show or working, good temperment, not raised in a large kennel/puppy mill, no byb, etc. When I told her I was looking to spend around $400 -600 USD, her general demeanor changed, dramatically.

She essentially said if I wasn't willing to pay at _least_ $1500, I would be better off looking at the local animal shelter because there's no way I could get a "quality" dog for less than that. She didn't even mention rescue dogs, just that I should look at the animal shelter for a pet if I couldn't commit to a large financial investment up front. I was astonished at the change in her tone, it was like I insulted her. I make my living talking with people over the phone so I'm very tuned in to changes in voice inflection, phonation, ect. This wasn't my imagination. I politely thanked her for speaking with me and hung up the phone feeling very frustrated.

After talking to our vet and doing further research on the Web, I found Karma's breeder in another state and got her for $400. As should be quite obvious from my posts in this forum, I could not be more pleased with her.

I now understand the abrupt change in the DPCA officers demeanor. If you read the application, you'll see this:

"Prices of Doberman Pinschers should be based upon individual quality. Members should maintain prices so as not to be injurious to the breed."

That pretty well says it all. I guess they don't realize not everyone can afford a Rolls Royce when they're looking to purchase a new car.

"Wondered if my $30.00 membership dues would help with research, rescue or whatever..."

Personally, I'd donate the $30 to any of the highly reputable Dobe rescue organizations that are actually doing things that directly improve the lives of this breed we love so much.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,910 Posts
morrmar said:
"Was researching more on albinos and have spent a significant amount of time at dpca.org and the links provided there today... It is a truly wonderful site with tons of invaluable information."

I agree, it's a highly informative site, even though the design is cumbersome at best. However, in doing research before we got Karma, I had very poor experience with one of the officers that _totally_ soured me on them. She lives in the same part of NC as I do and her number was listed on the site so I gave her a call to inquire about reputable breeders in our general vicinity. She was very enthusiastic at first as we talked about the temperment and quality of Dobes and how they are generally misunderstood by the general public. I told her what I was looking for, stressing pet quality - not show or working, good temperment, not raised in a large kennel/puppy mill, no byb, etc. When I told her I was looking to spend around $400 -600 USD, her general demeanor changed, dramatically.

She essentially said if I wasn't willing to pay at _least_ $1500, I would be better off looking at the local animal shelter because there's no way I could get a "quality" dog for less than that. She didn't even mention rescue dogs, just that I should look at the animal shelter for a pet if I couldn't commit to a large financial investment up front. I was astonished at the change in her tone, it was like I insulted her. I make my living talking with people over the phone so I'm very tuned in to changes in voice inflection, phonation, ect. This wasn't my imagination. I politely thanked her for speaking with me and hung up the phone feeling very frustrated.

After talking to our vet and doing further research on the Web, I found Karma's breeder in another state and got her for $400. As should be quite obvious from my posts in this forum, I could not be more pleased with her.

I now understand the abrupt change in the DPCA officers demeanor. If you read the application, you'll see this:

"Prices of Doberman Pinschers should be based upon individual quality. Members should maintain prices so as not to be injurious to the breed."

That pretty well says it all. I guess they don't realize not everyone can afford a Rolls Royce when they're looking to purchase a new car.

"Wondered if my $30.00 membership dues would help with research, rescue or whatever..."

Personally, I'd donate the $30 to any of the highly reputable Dobe rescue organizations that are actually doing things that directly improve the lives of this breed we love so much.
Maybe she could have steered you towards rescue although she did talk about shelters, but I basically would have told you the same thing. No reputable breeder could produce a puppy for the price you were willing to pay unless they were independently wealthy and could afford to take a big loss. The cost of producing a healthy litter from champion health tested parents is huge. Add to that the cost of raising Doberman puppies: docking, cropping, shots, worming, food.......etc......... $400-$600 just does not begin to cover the cost. I won't even tell you how many $1000's I have invested into the bitch I am showing right now, and how many $1000's I put into Velma and then ended up spaying her. I've got $1000's more to go with Louise to get to the point of even breeding her with no guarentee that it will even happen. If all I was interested in was money, I would have bred Velma a couple of times by now and sold all her puppies for around $1500. She is a wonderful bitch, but was not destined to be my foundation so I spayed her.

I am a member of the DPCA, and I don't think that $30/year is too much to spend on the organization that works its as* off to maintain the quality of the breed in so many ways. You have no idea where the money goes and I'm not going to list it for you - the one thing I do know is that no-one collects a salary and as far as I know, the officers pay their own expences. I am also a member of my local Doberman club and a volunteer officer. I joined the local club first, got to know the people (and they me), then I joined the DPCA. I would be happy to sponsor someone I know well and who is truly a good Doberman person for membership. They don't have to show or breed to be a good Dobe person. Not everyone in the DPCA is a good Doberman person - there will always be a few bad apples - but most of them are good people who love Dobermans.

I'm glad you love your dog - it would be sad if you did not. People like the lady you talked to spend a ton of time talking to the general public about our breed. We see it all, and sorry if spending more time talking to someone who obviously wants a dog for much less than a good breeder can produce one for is not on their agenda. I spend hours talking to people about both rescue and good breeders - my time is valuable - Isn't yours??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
"The cost of producing a healthy litter from champion health tested parents is huge. Add to that the cost of raising Doberman puppies: docking, cropping, shots, worming, food.......etc......... $400-$600 just does not begin to cover the cost. I won't even tell you how many $1000's I have invested into the bitch I am showing right now, and how many $1000's I put into Velma and then ended up spaying her."

You've hit a sore spot with me and I don't mean nor want to be disrespectful but what you've written demonstrates the typical ignorance and arrogance of many "show" people. And you're making the same mistake as the DPCA officer did. Not everyone needs nor _wants_ a show dog. The fact that a dog has earned a CH title means absolutely _nothing_ to me. I'm not interested in a dog who has the "proper" brisket or forelegs and can prance around a show ring. Not only would such a dog be useless to me, it would probably not survive long in the environment I live in should it get out from under my control.

As I've stated before, when I was young and foolish, my dogs were outside dogs. And I mean they lived entirely outside with no fenced in area. Where I live, there are thousands and thousands of acres of forrest. There are bear, coyote, fox, and contrary to what you will read in wildlife books, mountain lions. Last week, I killed a rattlesnake underneath my deck. This is the environment my dogs live in, which I'm sure is quite different than yours.

Back in the 80's my Augie, who incidentally was a Dobe from a byb, was a _true_ working dog. He protected my house and land with a vengence. Hunters who came too close to the house were warned to stay away by his mere presence, not to mention a menacing growl. One day he came back barely alive, he had tangled with a bear. He was chewed up, literally. We nursed him back to health and in about a month, he went back, tangled with it again and lost his life. I eventually shot the bear, who had lost it's fear of humans and was a menace to all who lived up on our mountain. Your Velma, while no doubt a true CH dog, would not _survive_ in my environment. My Augie was a whole lot more true to the original purpose of the breed than your Velma is, without a doubt.

Different people have different needs when they decide to bring a dog into their family. Again, not everyone is like you and wants a CH Dobe, or can afford one. I'm glad you have thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on show dogs. I have four human children who are in college, getting ready to get married and trying to buy houses in the over-inflated real estate market. That's is where my money is going so consequently, I don't have a couple of grand laying around the house to spend on a "show" Dobe.

Let me try this analogy again so maybe you can understand:

Not everyone who is looking to by a new car wants, nor _needs_ a Rolls Royce. Is the Rolls Royce worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars? To some people, absolutely. To others, like me, not a chance. The Rolls Royce couldn't even get up my driveway. Why is that so difficult for you "show" people to understand?

"You have no idea where the money goes and I'm not going to list it for you - "

I could care less. But what I know, for a _fact_, is that $30 USD will go much further in making the actual life of a real live Dobe _better_ if donated to a rescue organization than it would going to support an arrogant group of people who think they are the only ones who know what constitutes "quality" in a Dobe.

"I am also a member of my local Doberman club and a volunteer officer..."

I commend you for your involvement but that doesn't qualify you as being more concerned about or qualified to judge the "quality" of Dobe than I am.

"I'm glad you love your dog - it would be sad if you did not"

I'm sure you love yours as well. I always try to find a point I can agree on with those who I disagree with and in your post, this is about the only thing I can agree with you on.

"...sorry if spending more time talking to someone who obviously wants a dog for much less than a good breeder can produce one for is not on their agenda."

Your defintion of "good" or "quality" is quite obviously different than mine. Your dogs would be utterly useless in my environment, as mine would be in yours. But that most assuredly does _not_ mean your dogs are of higher "quality" or "better" bred than mine.

"I spend hours talking to people about both rescue and good breeders - my time is valuable - Isn't yours??"

I'm glad you have that luxury. I have a family to take care of and a business to run so I'm not quite as "lucky" as you. But I'll take my $400 Karma over your multi-thousand dollar Velma... any day of the week.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,910 Posts
morrmar said:
"The cost of producing a healthy litter from champion health tested parents is huge. Add to that the cost of raising Doberman puppies: docking, cropping, shots, worming, food.......etc......... $400-$600 just does not begin to cover the cost. I won't even tell you how many $1000's I have invested into the bitch I am showing right now, and how many $1000's I put into Velma and then ended up spaying her."

You've hit a sore spot with me and I don't mean nor want to be disrespectful but what you've written demonstrates the typical ignorance and arrogance of many "show" people. And you're making the same mistake as the DPCA officer did. Not everyone needs nor _wants_ a show dog. The fact that a dog has earned a CH title means absolutely _nothing_ to me. I'm not interested in a dog who has the "proper" brisket or forelegs and can prance around a show ring. Not only would such a dog be useless to me, it would probably not survive long in the environment I live in should it get out from under my control.

As I've stated before, when I was young and foolish, my dogs were outside dogs. And I mean they lived entirely outside with no fenced in area. Where I live, there are thousands and thousands of acres of forrest. There are bear, coyote, fox, and contrary to what you will read in wildlife books, mountain lions. Last week, I killed a rattlesnake underneath my deck. This is the environment my dogs live in, which I'm sure is quite different than yours.

Back in the 80's my Augie, who incidentally was a Dobe from a byb, was a _true_ working dog. He protected my house and land with a vengence. Hunters who came too close to the house were warned to stay away by his mere presence, not to mention a menacing growl. One day he came back barely alive, he had tangled with a bear. He was chewed up, literally. We nursed him back to health and in about a month, he went back, tangled with it again and lost his life. I eventually shot the bear, who had lost it's fear of humans and was a menace to all who lived up on our mountain. Your Velma, while no doubt a true CH dog, would not _survive_ in my environment. My Augie was a whole lot more true to the original purpose of the breed than your Velma is, without a doubt.

Different people have different needs when they decide to bring a dog into their family. Again, not everyone is like you and wants a CH Dobe, or can afford one. I'm glad you have thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on show dogs. I have four human children who are in college, getting ready to get married and trying to buy houses in the over-inflated real estate market. That's is where my money is going so consequently, I don't have a couple of grand laying around the house to spend on a "show" Dobe.

Let me try this analogy again so maybe you can understand:

Not everyone who is looking to by a new car wants, nor _needs_ a Rolls Royce. Is the Rolls Royce worth the hundreds of thousands of dollars? To some people, absolutely. To others, like me, not a chance. The Rolls Royce couldn't even get up my driveway. Why is that so difficult for you "show" people to understand?

"You have no idea where the money goes and I'm not going to list it for you - "

I could care less. But what I know, for a _fact_, is that $30 USD will go much further in making the actual life of a real live Dobe _better_ if donated to a rescue organization than it would going to support an arrogant group of people who think they are the only ones who know what constitutes "quality" in a Dobe.

"I am also a member of my local Doberman club and a volunteer officer..."

I commend you for your involvement but that doesn't qualify you as being more concerned about or qualified to judge the "quality" of Dobe than I am.

"I'm glad you love your dog - it would be sad if you did not"

I'm sure you love yours as well. I always try to find a point I can agree on with those who I disagree with and in your post, this is about the only thing I can agree with you on.

"...sorry if spending more time talking to someone who obviously wants a dog for much less than a good breeder can produce one for is not on their agenda."

Your defintion of "good" or "quality" is quite obviously different than mine. Your dogs would be utterly useless in my environment, as mine would be in yours. But that most assuredly does _not_ mean your dogs are of higher "quality" or "better" bred than mine.

"I spend hours talking to people about both rescue and good breeders - my time is valuable - Isn't yours??"

I'm glad you have that luxury. I have a family to take care of and a business to run so I'm not quite as "lucky" as you. But I'll take my $400 Karma over your multi-thousand dollar Velma... any day of the week.
Put quite simply in terms you understand: You are a first class ass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dobegal

·
Extraordimary
Joined
·
5,016 Posts
morrmar said:
But I'll take my $400 Karma over your multi-thousand dollar Velma... any day of the week.
A lot of people say that, and change their tune when they learn their dog from a byb is a vWD bleeder or comes down with hip dysplasia or some other problem that can usually be avoided by health testing the parents and having a thorough knowledge of the pedigree and ancestors of the parents. That is the key area where bybs fall short. They usually know nothing of what came before the dogs they happen to own and are breeding.

That is NOT to say that well-bred dogs may not have problems. The difference being that someone usually tried hard to avoid the problems with the well-bred, pedigreed dogs. When the byb dogs dodge bullets, they are just lucky.

IMO, your post is just as arrogant as what you're accusing others of. Karma is a puppy, I believe. Talk to us when she's 12 ...

Like Mary Jo, I talk to hundreds of Doberman owners a year in my rescue work and as a breeder. A huge majority of them have owned byb dogs who did not meet their needs when it came to longevity, health, temperament, working ability, etc and they are trying to do better with their next purchase.
 

·
Sea Hag
Joined
·
12,933 Posts
morrmar said:
" But what I know, for a _fact_, is that $30 USD will go much further in making the actual life of a real live Dobe _better_ if donated to a rescue organization than it would going to support an arrogant group of people who think they are the only ones who know what constitutes "quality" in a Dobe.

.
This statement is just plain ignorant. I'm not 'dissing making contributions to rescue, but the DPCA has and continues to make *great* efforts to improve the well being of ALL dobermans.

The DPCA helped fund the research the resulted in the dna test for vWD being developed. IN the last year, they've helped fund a couple of different research projects centered around DCM to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.

The club has also been forerunners in fighting BSL.

This is in addition to a variety of different educational programs And for the record, the people you're calling arrogant, those awful "show people" were the ones who created the concept of purebred rescue, and made it a reality.

It's really best to have actual facts before you open your mouth. The DPCA isn't perfect, no person or organization can make that claim. But the club and it's membership make great efforts to improve life for the individual dog and the breed as a whole on an ongoing basis.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
"Put quite simply in terms you understand: You are a first class ass."

What an insightful and thought provoking response. Well thought out, sound reasoning, and above all indicative of the intelligence of the author.

I am quite thoroughly skewered by your rapier-like wit. What's next, "Sez you!"

BTW, that was a rhetorical question so don't bother to respond. You clearly cannot disagree with someone else's opinion without becoming disagreeable and I don't waste my time responding to those of your ilk.

To Tracy-Jo,

I'm sorry this has degenerated into this type of thread. It was not my intent for this to happen. If the two individuals I have communicated with in this organization are representative of the group as a whole, it should be blantantly obvious how effective your donation would be in improving research or rescue efforts. _My_ money would go here:

http://www.doberman-rescue.com/home.php

or here:

http://www.dru.org/

or here:

http://www.ablink.demon.co.uk/

or here:

http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer

But then again, to paraphrase Groucho Marx, I'd never belong to a club that would have _me_ as a member. (If I used IE, I'd put one of those jumping smiley faces here)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,910 Posts
morrmar said:
"Put quite simply in terms you understand: You are a first class ass."

What an insightful and thought provoking response. Well thought out, sound reasoning, and above all indicative of the intelligence of the author.

I am quite thoroughly skewered by your rapier-like wit. What's next, "Sez you!"

BTW, that was a rhetorical question so don't bother to respond. You clearly cannot disagree with someone else's opinion without becoming disagreeable and I don't waste my time responding to those of your ilk.

To Tracy-Jo,

I'm sorry this has degenerated into this type of thread. It was not my intent for this to happen. If the two individuals I have communicated with in this organization are representative of the group as a whole, it should be blantantly obvious how effective your donation would be in improving research or rescue efforts. _My_ money would go here:

http://www.doberman-rescue.com/home.php

or here:

http://www.dru.org/

or here:

http://www.ablink.demon.co.uk/

or here:

http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer
Well, I call them like I see them.

What you don't seem to get is that my money also goes to rescue as well as my time. I volunteer several hours to rescue every month. One of the many hats I wear in the club I belong to is that of the rescue liaison along with the WAE Chair and the recording secretary. If you ever bothered to look closely at my website you would see that I am a volunteer for my local rescue.

I've dealt with too many people like you who think that they know it all because they have a Doberman, and they read way too many macho accounts of working dogs on sites like Leerburgs (it is not a terrible site, but is very limited). I've seen way too many puppies that people bought from bybers for $400 (or thereabouts) that later end up in rescue because breeders like that have no interest in taking back what they breed when the people they sell them to no longer want them. Instead of supporting another breeder like that, you could have tried rescue as was suggested.

I've got nothing against people who buy a Doberman (or any breed) from a less than reputable breeder out of a lack of knowledge - my first Doberman was byb all the way. It is the arrogence of people like you who apparently think that because they don't have a show quality dog and didn't want to pay the money for one - can just assume mine are only good for "prancing" around a show ring. You are full of sh*t and it shows. I've spent years studying and working with this breed, and still have much to learn. I've never said anything bad about a nice working Doberman, but put up with the slurs and outright nastiness from people like you all the time. It gets old.

I'm not rich, I've got young kids, and I struggle to afford to show my dogs. If you must know, I'm doing it with a very small amount of money that I inherited when my Mom died. I devote a lot of my free time to helping out people with their Dobermans - no matter where they got them. So sorry if I have less than an admirable amount of tolerance for people like you who feel that because they can't afford what I have, they must find fault with it so that they can then feel superior in some way.

Not sure why I bothered with this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
308 Posts
Tough old Doberman

well now let's just throw this new puppy outside with the bears; snakes & cougars and if he survives then I know I've got the best; ass kicking dog around!!! Yeehaw!!!

(all said to the music from Deliverance)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
308 Posts
Dpca

on a serious note; the DPCA is definitely worth joining. They have done so much for the breed as Cheryl has stated.

I also encourage joining your local chapter; you can meet other Doberman people close to you. It's great for learning all kinds of things about our beloved dobes; health, temperament; conformation you name it!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Goodness, who would have known such an innocent question could spark so much...
Chi for all she's worth is basically byb - some schmuck with a not so great bitch somehow got ahold of a really great stud and produced her. I have no doubt that many of our problems are a result of her poor breeding. Incidentally, I was very happy with her as a young pup, she did not demonstrate any outward or obvious signs of the problems that we face now.
I appreciate the DPCA for their information and work - without the DPCA we wouldn't have the albino tracking system, we probably wouldn't know what we do about DCM or vWd either - I also appreciate the time and $'s that come with breeding a quality litter of pups. Before this site and all the research that I've done this past year, my views were very similar to M's. I think Kim said it best when she explained, the pet owning public deserves a healthy dog as much as the show folks (paraphrased :) ) I also understand that "show dogs" are much more than pretty, prancing ponies - Although I don't think I'll ever have another pup (well bred or not, I think I'll probably rescue from now on) I am interested in the DPCA - I guess I should have asked originally - Would applying for membership be beneficial to me and if so, how? I honestly don't think there will ever be a time in my life where I don't have a Doberman laying under my chair or poking me with her nose to go for a walk as I type
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,646 Posts
My Augie was a whole lot more true to the original purpose of the breed than your Velma is, without a doubt.
I don't see how you can say this. First of all Dobermans were not bred to fight bears and I think it is terrible that you didn't protect your dog from that kind of a demise.

Second of all I believe Velma has passed a working evaluation. All though not perfect, besides real life experiences, it is all we have to evaluated temperament.

Have you ever looked into Rhodesian Ridgebacks? They were bred to fight lions. Sounds like maybe that is something you need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,758 Posts
your are right Tracy Jo this HAS turned into quite a discussion. now for my two cents

My first dobe as most of you know was BYB and I loved him to bits. but he died at 3.5 yrs of an autoimmune disorder. tmy two current dobes are are rescues. When we had Cody we went to a local club match and were barely given the time of day. I was very eager to learn about showing (still am btw) and it left a bad taste in my mouth of the local club and the DCPA.
since Cody's passing we have gotten very involved with the local rescue and at the recent fundraising picnic, guess who was there?? the local club members who I have since found out many foster, some adopt and almost all are very active in fundriasing to help offset the foster costs (vet bills, shots, spay/neuters and any other help a rescue needs)

so TJ, I would say that the $30 for a DCPA membership would be a good investment. As would any money, to ANY reputable rescue org (if you want the name and address of our anybody, just PM me and I will forward it).

but please, because a person expresses their love and admiration for the breed by participating in conformation - or OB or Schutzhund, or flyball, or agilityor luring or just loving your pet - please don't assume that they have ignored all the other wonderful dimensions of the breed and aren't doing what they think is best for the breed as well.

OK so that was probably more like 5 cents, but I've been off-line for so long, I am running at the keyboard......

cc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,069 Posts
There should alway's be a "standard" to breed to. I think this is why such organizations exist. That said, the person you talked to should have explanined things a little better as to why it would be hard to find a quality dobe at that price. They should not have given you the cold shoulder regardless of how much time they spend doing this. They have to remember that they are the one's who volunteered and should act as though they were being employed by any other organization. I myself find it hard to believe what the breeders charge. But given the vet bills, time spent, problems that may arise and the hours given to after care I can kinda understand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,854 Posts
blah blah blah blah. i think ive seen this song and dance before...

you show me another doberman organization that does more to put health and rescue, breed specific legislation, and the education of the public, at the top of their agenda than the DPCA - and ill be the first to join.


is the DPCA perfect? never said they were.

are they better than anything else we have out there? Yes, im my humble opinion.

im a member of other groups. not a SINGLE one of them supports rescue anywhere near the extent that the DPCA does. not a SINGLE one of them has made health such a big force within their group, including health clinics and seminars. not a SINGLE ONE of them subsidizes national rescues.

in fact, there are pitiful few breed clubs PERIOD that go to the extent the DPCA does to support the PET OWNING members of the breed.



=proud PET OWNING member of the DPCA for 4 years now
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
"I don't see how you can say this. First of all Dobermans were not bred to fight bears and I think it is terrible that you didn't protect your dog from that kind of a demise."

I have resisted responding to the various posts in this thread so as not to have it further degenerate but this one I can't let go. You have no earthly idea how I care for my dogs, even back then when they were outside dogs. I could not have prevented Augie from going after that bear if my life depended on it. He saw it as his _job_ to protect our house and property so he did what he did... and I could not have been more proud of him. He did what the _Dobermann _ was originally bred to do. From the DPCA website:

"Unlike breeds which have evolved over centuries of natural selection, the Doberman is a brilliant example of breeding expertise by man.

During the latter part of the 19th Century, the Germans were primarily concerned with function, rather than appearance. Their goal was to develop a super dog, capable of the ultimate in protection and companionship. Selection for breeding was based on the bravest, the keenest, the quickest and the toughest, and if these requirements were met the most loyal. These headstrong rowdies were variously known as "Dobermann's dogs," or "Thuringia Pinschers," and were sharp, aggressive with other dogs and distrustful of strangers.

But they were also brave, bold and bright. They learned fast, were resourceful, adapted to almost any situation, and as one chronicler stated, "were robust, had no trace of fear - not of the devil himself and it required a good deal of courage to own one of them."

Somehow, I doubt a "show" dog would do what Augie did, twice. Hence, my quote that he was more true to the _original_ purpose of the breed.

"Have you ever looked into Rhodesian Ridgebacks? They were bred to fight lions. Sounds like maybe that is something you need."

Your ignorance of the Rhodesian Ridgeback is apparent. They were not bred to _fight_ lions, they were bred to hunt them. I don't hunt lions, bears or any other animal for that matter so have no need for a hunting dog. I do, however, because of where I live, have a need for a watch dog, which is why I have a Dobe. But then again, I had a Golden Retreiver who served that purpose flawlessly for almost 12 years and I didn't pay $1500 for her either, so MaryAnDobe, if you're still around in 12 years, I'll let you know how Karma is doing.

MurreyDobe, yours was a thoughtful and well written post. But please note that no where in my original post did I say anything derogatory about the DPCA. I was only speaking about the officer I spoke with, not the whole organization. When VelmaDobe essentially responded with the same attitude, I let my emotions get the best of me and painted her with the same brush.

The DPCA officers response, if given to others like me who desire a _pet_ quality Dobe, only serves to _encourage_ them to resort to byb's. My vet knew of someone who bred Dobe's like I was looking for, which is why we drove 500 miles to get Karma.

But I still feel, and anyone can rightfully disagree, that a $30 donation to a rescue org will have a more immediate, lasting and positive impact on a real, living Dobe than that same $30 would if going to the DPCA.

And duncdobe, I was/am a Registered Respiratory Therapist, have a BS in Biology and a Masters degree in Info Systems so ordinarily I'd use my knowledge to eviscerate you for your repugnant generalization but you're clearly not worth the effort.

This will be my last post in this thread as all that can be said has already been said. But to all of the DPCA members please remember, not everyone needs nor wants to spend >$1500 for a Dobe and just because they didn't does not mean that your dog is better bred or of higher quality than those of us who didn't. And because of this thread, I hope _all_ of you will donate $30 to a Dobe rescue organization... as I just did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Morrmar, you may assume that "show" people are ignorant and arrogant but that is not only irrelevant to this thread but very generalized and wrong. The breed that we all love has a slew of inherent health problems. How do we erradicate those problems? Through research, health testing and only breeding the best of the best we work toward bettering the breed and erasing the problems. A major contributor to those health problems are back yard breeders who have no clue what they are breeding. We owe a thank you to the breeders out there who basically donate their time and money to better the breed - I doubt that many if any make a profit off of their litters after all the others costs associated with producing a healthy, sound litter of pups are deducted.
Of course, not everyone can afford or is willing to pay for a well bred pup - but there are more than enough wonderful pets and even often times pups that are available for adoption through rescue organizations. I find it sad and somewhat ironic that you can feel justified in purchasing a pup from a byb and then in the same breath preach about donating to rescue organizations.
I think your attitude in this thread has been reprehensible - VelmaDobe, Kim, MurreyDobe and the others have years and years of combined (and individual) experience with all aspects of this breed, you do not have to agree with everything they say, but you should at least show them a decent amount of respect for so willingly sharing their knowledge.

MaryJo - please refrain from name calling in the future...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,942 Posts
morrmar said:
" I'm not interested in a dog who has the "proper" brisket or forelegs and can prance around a show ring. Not only would such a dog be useless to me, it would probably not survive long in the environment I live in should it get out from under my control.


I don't have a couple of grand laying around the house to spend on a "show" Dobe.
Prancing around a show ring?? Please. You think that is ALL they do? Proper breeding is for a REASON. They are a working breed and proper conformation serves to help the dog to work better. As does health testing. When you go with a reputable breeder you are smart b/c you are helping your chances that your much loved family pet or working or show dog will live longer. Breeders that health test care about the breed and want to put some health considerations when they are producing more Dobes, for pet and show. In every show litter there are always pets, family companion dogs. More dogs are sold as companions for most show breeders than actual show dogs.

My show dogs also happen to be pets first and foremost, as most show dogs are. In reality, most show dogs don't spend that much time actually showing, the ring doesn't take long.

They are shown yes and have titles yes, but they also go everywhere, camping, the lake, the river, and every where else in between. They are ready to go and up for anything.
They are very protective, but they are my much loved pets and I would never put them in harms way on purpose if I could avoid it.
They would have fences in my back yard to protect them if there were wild animals running about, I would never be proud they fought a bear and died. That would mean I wasn't doing my job and let my much loved pets died. This breed was bred for protection of man, not to fight/hunt/take on wild boar, bears, or lions. There are breeds out there like that though.

You can say Velma couldn't make it with you style of living, personally you really have NO idea of that since you have never owned a show dog and don't know first hand what they are like to live with at all. So drop the personal insults of her dog and show dogs in general.

And I do hope your pet puppy/dog has a long life b/c it really is a roll of genetic dice, at least going with a show breeder for a pet you know that health testing has been done and the breeding took place b/c the animals were both healthy (many tests were done, not just the vet says at the last check up they were okay), built correctly, and have great temperaments. The odds are in your favor going with a reputable breeder.

With the money issue, it is an investment for all the reasons stated above and more. People save up to buy things all the time, a dog should be well planned for too. For every year the dog lives it really is not that much to pay. Training, vet bills, food, leashes, toys, bowls, treats, etc. are expensive. Dogs are just expensive any way you look at it.
If you cannot afford a well bred Doberman, then get a rescue, don't keep the byb's in business.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top