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Discussion Starter #1
The vet took a look at Dozer (that's what we're calling him now), and said he's in great health...except for the fact that he's extremely thin. She did some blood work and took a stool sample and didn't find any parasites. She gave him a Distemper shot and also his Rabies. She also started him on a heartworm preventative.

He and Apollo seem to be getting along great. However, Apollo will not give him one moment of peace. He is constantly following him around trying to get him to play. I have to crate Apollo to feed him because he will not leave Dozer alone long enough for him to eat. Hopefully the excitement will pass soon because I feel bad for the poor dog.

Dozer is skin and bones at 71lbs, and the vet said he should be closer to 90lbs at least or in the mid 90's ideally. She estimated him to be 1yr-1.5yrs old. There was no microchip.

He doesn't mind being crated, although when I let him out he is constantly whining at the door to go outside. I have not heard him bark yet, but he lets out an ear piercing scream whenever he sees a squirrel or another dog. What is the best way to get him to stop that (I believe it scares the other dogs and their owners)? He also howls like a wolf with his head up toward the ceiling when he hears Apollo whining.

It's deffinitely not easy having two dogs...especially when one of them is a demanding puppy. I think it would be a lot easier if I could walk them together, and if I could get Apollo to calm down. I feel horrible crating him so often now, but it's the only way I can get him to relax for more than two minutes. My sister said she would take Dozer home with her, but I don't want her boyfriend to be miserable all the time because of his allergies, and I absolutely hate quitting something when I start it. I think we all just need a period of adjustment. Hopefully Apollo will get bored with him and wont be as excited to have him around.

So I guess my two questions are...

1) How do I get him to stop screaming when he sees another dog/squirrel/fuzzy creature?
2) Apollo has stopped telling me he needs to go outside. He just squats down and starts going. He did this twice yesterday and once today. He hadn't had an accident in a long time before now, so I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the new dog/situation. Any thoughts?

Also, any advice from people with multiple dogs about how you make it work without losing your mind would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
 

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Oh boy do you have your work cut out for you.. as a Mother of 4 dogs.. I know how much work it can be.. ok lets start..
1. get a squirt bottle with water and vinergar or a coke can with a few pennies in it.
When the new dog start to howl or whine.. squirt him in the face and say "NO" QUIET" OR Shake the can and say "NO QUIET"
2. the newest will wear off soon.. I know that at our house it is getting better everyday.. it has been almost 4 months now and all are getting along great..
As for the potting.. go back to the potting training.. he may just be excited and forgeting to tell you.. like a little child playing and then all of a sudden oppsss I got to go!!!
Also the spray bottle and the "leave it" command works well with the playing all the time on Apollo to.
It can work out..I know.. I have 4 dogs.. and all is well here..good luck..
 

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Hi frznbuns, don't mean to contradict you here but would it be good for him to spray vinegar into the face of a dog he doesn't really yet understand?

I just think this might be too "in your face" for a dog that was possibly abused thus inducing a bite situation.

My take on this:

1) The dog was probably left to his own devices, hence his attention turned to the animals that visited the backyard. Probably was encouraged to catch and kill these animals on occassion too. Either that or his prey drive is very high and he doesn't know how to direct it.

2) Probably what frznbuns said, but possibly a situation where one dog is trying to establish territory? Previously the threshold has been established but is suddenly threatened? Over-crating may result in aggression coming out from Apollo, as he might see Dozer trying to "take over" his place in the pack.

I may have probably over-read the situation, but better safe than sorry.

Remedies:

1) You have to establish yourself with Dozer first, let him know everything's going to be fine, then let him know you're the alpha. From there, you can introduce corrections and other training concepts to correct the behaviour. Maybe at a later stage the vinegar spray would work safely?

2) Strong corrections are what I would do, firm scolding and then bringing the dog to its "toilet" and making it sit-stay there for a good 20 minutes until he learns. He should not be allowed to lie down or relax as it is punishment. Old school, but it works for me.

Good luck to you, hope everything works out well.

Regards,
TH
 

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Discussion Starter #4
frznbuns said:
Oh boy do you have your work cut out for you.. as a Mother of 4 dogs.. I know how much work it can be.. ok lets start..
1. get a squirt bottle with water and vinergar or a coke can with a few pennies in it.
When the new dog start to howl or whine.. squirt him in the face and say "NO" QUIET" OR Shake the can and say "NO QUIET"
2. the newest will wear off soon.. I know that at our house it is getting better everyday.. it has been almost 4 months now and all are getting along great..
As for the potting.. go back to the potting training.. he may just be excited and forgeting to tell you.. like a little child playing and then all of a sudden oppsss I got to go!!!
Also the spray bottle and the "leave it" command works well with the playing all the time on Apollo to.
It can work out..I know.. I have 4 dogs.. and all is well here..good luck..
Thanks for the advice! I think you're right about Apollo just being too excited to tell me he has to go, but it's very dificult to get his attention when he's playing with Dozer. As soon as I let him out of his crate he goes straight for Dozer, wagging his little stump like crazy! And he'll whine for me to let Dozer out if he's crated. I think i'll just have to watch him more closely and wait for the excitment to die down a bit for things to go back to normal. I think I'll start taking treats outside with me on potty breaks again.

4 dogs...Good heavens! You're my hero...seriously!
 

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Oh no problem. I see what you mean too. You could be right also.. I just know what helped with my dogs.. Iris was a rescue that came to us out of a house that throw her in the backyard and never worked with her.. Spirit was all over her when we got her and the spray was the best way to get him to settle.. I think with time and love these two dogs will learn to live together and be best buds.. I always think that a person should take all advise and use what is best for them.. good luck and no offense taken..PS I would love to get a Red and a Fawn but hubby says a bigger house first or more $$$$ which ever comes first.. HEEEHEE
th.ng said:
Hi frznbuns, don't mean to contradict you here but would it be good for him to spray vinegar into the face of a dog he doesn't really yet understand?

I just think this might be too "in your face" for a dog that was possibly abused thus inducing a bite situation.

My take on this:

1) The dog was probably left to his own devices, hence his attention turned to the animals that visited the backyard. Probably was encouraged to catch and kill these animals on occassion too. Either that or his prey drive is very high and he doesn't know how to direct it.

2) Probably what frznbuns said, but possibly a situation where one dog is trying to establish territory? Previously the threshold has been established but is suddenly threatened? Over-crating may result in aggression coming out from Apollo, as he might see Dozer trying to "take over" his place in the pack.

I may have probably over-read the situation, but better safe than sorry.

Remedies:

1) You have to establish yourself with Dozer first, let him know everything's going to be fine, then let him know you're the alpha. From there, you can introduce corrections and other training concepts to correct the behaviour. Maybe at a later stage the vinegar spray would work safely?

2) Strong corrections are what I would do, firm scolding and then bringing the dog to its "toilet" and making it sit-stay there for a good 20 minutes until he learns. He should not be allowed to lie down or relax as it is punishment. Old school, but it works for me.

Good luck to you, hope everything works out well.

Regards,
TH
 

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Discussion Starter #6
th.ng said:
Hi frznbuns, don't mean to contradict you here but would it be good for him to spray vinegar into the face of a dog he doesn't really yet understand?

I just think this might be too "in your face" for a dog that was possibly abused thus inducing a bite situation.

My take on this:

1) The dog was probably left to his own devices, hence his attention turned to the animals that visited the backyard. Probably was encouraged to catch and kill these animals on occassion too. Either that or his prey drive is very high and he doesn't know how to direct it.

2) Probably what frznbuns said, but possibly a situation where one dog is trying to establish territory? Previously the threshold has been established but is suddenly threatened? Over-crating may result in aggression coming out from Apollo, as he might see Dozer trying to "take over" his place in the pack.

I may have probably over-read the situation, but better safe than sorry.

Remedies:

1) You have to establish yourself with Dozer first, let him know everything's going to be fine, then let him know you're the alpha. From there, you can introduce corrections and other training concepts to correct the behaviour. Maybe at a later stage the vinegar spray would work safely?

2) Strong corrections are what I would do, firm scolding and then bringing the dog to its "toilet" and making it sit-stay there for a good 20 minutes until he learns. He should not be allowed to lie down or relax as it is punishment. Old school, but it works for me.

Good luck to you, hope everything works out well.

Regards,
TH
I have to agree with you about using the spray bottle on Dozer right now. Although he hasn't shown any agression as of yet, I'm not sure it would be a good way to establish our new relationship. However, I do agree with Frznbuns in that he DOES need some kind of correction because I don't want him to learn that the howling (or any other bad behavior he may display) is acceptable.

I think you're definitely right about him having a high prey drive! He sees the squirrels from far distances and he'll just freeze where he is, staring at them. He'll then pull forward trying to run in their direction (this is when I'm glad I got that prong!). But when he realizes I'm not letting go and it's not worth the prong poking into his neck, he just starts screaming. It's really the only way I can describe the sound he makes. I've never heard a dog make that sound before, and all the NO!'s in the world wont get him to stop.

As for Apollo...he's not showing agression at all. He's displaying behavior more like Frznbuns described...an overly excited little kid with a new friend to play with. He'll actually grab a toy and drop it in front of Dozer wagging his tail. The problem is that sometimes Dozer wants to eat/sleep but Apollo wont leave him alone long enough. He'll lay down next to him if he's trying to sleep, he'll jump all over him and try to play the chase game with him. Dozer is handling it all very well, but I can tell Apollo is being annoying because Dozer will get up and move to a different spot in the living room to lay down when Apollo bothers him.

One interesting thing that I have noticed though, is that when Apollo comes over to me for attention Dozer will also come over to me, and ends up pushing Apollo out of the way so he can be petted...sign of trouble?
 

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HA! Living with more than one dog an not loosing your mind is impossible LOL We all have to be a bit crazy to have dogs in the first place :) But it can get better...
First, put a leash on Apollo the second you take him out of his crate and then directly to the backyard to potty. Don't give him the opportunity to make a mistake when he's so excited to be free and able to play with his new found friend. No play until business is done :)
You said that Dozer knows sit. If he comes up and nudges you while you are petting Apollo, make him sit, pet Apollo a few more times and then you can turn your attention to Dozer. That's what I'm doing with Chi and Petri and it seems to be working well.
Since you are working on training Apollo, I think that walking them together right now is just going to be difficult. I know it's a pain to walk them seperately but you may have to. Expecting Apollo to walk well and listen to you at this level of his training is like expecting a kid to do his homework at a rock concert. Once the newness of the new dog wears a bit, the bond between you and Dozer strengthens and Apollo learns a little more of what you expect of him, you should be able to work toward walking them together.

You said that before Dozer barks at the squirrels or people his body tenses and he takes on that intense stalk like stance... There's your key right there. You know what's coming next. As soon as you see him exhibit that stance get his attention on you! This is exactly why I think clicker training is invaluable and exactly what I have been working on with Chi. It does little good to correct this behavior if you don't teach him what he can do instead. And actually you can do it without a clicker too... As soon as he adopts the stance and before he barks start feeding him tiny but very yummy treats. I've read that studies have shown that for whatever reason a certain chemical (I want to say it's serotonin which is a neurotransmitter that exerpts a calming effect and regulates sleep) is produced while the animal is eating that has a calming effect. - Incidentally this is also one reason why so many people turn to food when they are stressed - He will quickly associate squirrel, rabbit, stranger walking down the street with the treats (Pavlov and his dogs)... You have to be diligent in getting his attention before he barks. If he does bark then remove him from the situation, turn and walk the opposite direction. It's essential that you keep his attention on you though until the distraction has passed or you have passed it, treats, talk to him in a happy and very animated voice, jump up and down if you have to :) When he starts looking at you as soon as he sees something that would have previously set him barking, then you can ask for something else, like a sit or a down. Heck at that point you can start teaching him that it's okay to bark once but not 3 times. The point of this is to get the dog to look to you for direction rather than taking matters into his own paws. It takes time and patience and lots of tiny treats (I mean tiny, I can get close to 100 treats out of a single hotdog) but it has worked miracles over here...
If this is happening in your backyard exclusively, work with him on lead in the backyard. If he's off lead, keep watch as soon as you see a squirrel (hopefully before he does) call him to you as excited as you can and give him lots o' tiny yummies for coming. But set him up for success :)
Since timing is essential in these excersizes a clicker comes in real handy. Since Dozer is an adult and probably has no idea what a clicker is I would suggest doing a little couch or kitchen work first. Simply click and then toss him a treat, click treat, click, treat... Vary the time it takes to get the treat to him but always a treat must follow the click. Won't take but a minute or two for him to look for the treat as soon as he hears the click. Say you're in the backyard and he's 5 feet from you. He sees a squirrel but hasn't barked yet. Click! He will look to you and you will give him a yummy. It's just easier to get that click in there than to get to him with a treat...


It sounds like you've decided to keep him if he goes unclaimed??? :) I hope it all works out and the boys get along well. Initial training and adjustment period is going to be hectic and try your patience at every moment but the payoff in the end will be worth it :)
 

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th.ng said:
Remedies:

1) You have to establish yourself with Dozer first, let him know everything's going to be fine, then let him know you're the alpha. From there, you can introduce corrections and other training concepts to correct the behaviour. Maybe at a later stage the vinegar spray would work safely?

2) Strong corrections are what I would do, firm scolding and then bringing the dog to its "toilet" and making it sit-stay there for a good 20 minutes until he learns. He should not be allowed to lie down or relax as it is punishment. Old school, but it works for me.
I think that enforcing the "nothing in life is free" concept with both dogs will greatly help with suggestion #1.
I don't agree with suggestion #2. Apollo is just at 5 months and at such a young age still working on the whole potty training thing. I think he may have regressed a bit due to the new distraction but doubt that he could hold a five minute stay much less 20 minutes. I think just backing up a couple steps will suffice and see no need to employ harsh punishments. Certainly she needs to reinforce what he's been previously taught but punishing him now for making mistakes would be like spraying vinegar in Dozers face for something he doesn't really understand.
 

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Maybe the 20 minute sit-stay could be a little harsh right now. Does Apollo understand corrections? If so, maybe a loud "No" when a mistake is made should suffice enough for Apollo to realise that it is making a mistake.

The description of a frozen body kind of brings to mind another kind of drive. I think what Tracy has said is actually very good, get its attention. Anticipate when it will go nuts and before that happens, turn its attention on something else.

If your area has a good protection work trainer, maybe pay him a visit? Not to work the dog but to assess what is going on in his head. He may/may not have been through protection work.

Finally, I would recommend that you ALWAYS keep an eye on the interactions between Apollo and Dozer. Apollo disturbing Dozer while eating or sleeping may just prompt a snap. It may be fine for the moment, but over time, it may be a problem.

Hope that helps,
TH
 
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