Dog agression...

Box_It said:

however I have noticed that he seems to act all mean to the friendlier dogs (the more submissive ones with wagging tails) and seems to want to play with those that assert their dominence over him... the situation usually breaks out as follows...

Walking with Ozzy on leash.. he see's a dog... he gets all excited and starts to pull and looks like he really wants to say hi... we go to say hello and the two dogs start smelling one another.. then all of a sudden he just starts to lung and bark all nasty at the other dog...

OH a couple more things... Ozzy sleeps in his crate not on my bed, he recieves his food from me and he has to "work" to recieve his food (Sit, wait), he is not human agressive but does act all protective of me at night when I walk him and he hears noises or see's someone walking, he is only allowed on furniture when he is invited up... So I'm confident that he see's me as the alpha here...

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Hi and welcome. I only have a short minute but wanted to say

Saying hi to random dogs on walks is not socialization. It is not even a good idea and should not be done. He doesn’t need to be 5 second friends with every dog he meets. This article might help explain it to you more. It will make sense to you since he seems to get annoyed by the friendly ones too, just like the dog in this article.
http://www.flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html
You can spend some time looking at articles on this site about aggression too. But this one is one of the best and one of my personal favorites. Plus, you are probably feeling on edge when he meets another dog, due to his past history, that travels down the leash and can become a self filling prophecy.

Is your boy intact?
Generally dog parks aren’t the best of places for socialization with other dogs. Too much unpredictably from other dogs, novice owners, un-trained dogs, etc. If you do a search, you will find a good thread about dog parks.

When you are in control on a walk, dogs that don’t get along can be trained to easily walk at one side and be accepting of the other dog for the most part. I am glad you had that experience. With dominant dogs, you must be confident and be a leader all the time.

If you get your dog a playmate, just know many times male Dobermans have male dog aggression. It is a trait in the breed. So don’t get a male to go along with your current male. Stick with a female.

Also, just b/c you make your dog “do” things (Nothing in Life is for Free program) and don’t let him sleep on the bed or couches doesn’t at all mean he sees you as his leader or alpha. He might even see his crate as his personal den that is HIS and HIS alone.
There is so much more to it than simply those things to win over some dogs respect and let them trust you as alpha.

Also you want to make sure he is healthy, if he was a Dobe, I would say check his thyroid.

Hello and THANK YOU SO MUCH!! I actually had a thought somewhere in the back of my mind that maybe this isnt my dog's fault.. maybe these dogs were sending some sort of message through body language that wasn't appropriate.. but its the way that people act when they see my dog that makes me feel like its mine and my dogs fault.. just like this article was saying...

Now I feel so bad for punishing him for just defending his space.. and yes its true I do tense up when my dog is to interact with another one most especially if the other dog is a big one because I just keep thinking that it wouldnt take much for a big dog to really hurt my little guy.. I'm just an over protective "mommy" LOL.. though of course I trust him with his rottie bud because I know the owner very well and I suppose since Ozzy knows him from puppyhood he just knows how to play with Judd in a respectful manner... He also used to play with my friends border collie regularly when we'd take them to an open feild and let them run around; but unfortuantly I havn't seen this friend for a while now as she's been quite busy.

Ozzy is indeed neutered (we got him from a breeder I researched and we bought him on pet quality terms so he had to be neutered) and I was aware of Dobe's male/male agression as one of my hobbies is researching dog breeds so female/male is what I was going to go with

I wasn't aware that I may not be the alpha after all, is there some way I can test if I'm the alpha or not? ...

Ozzy's not exactly in top form health.. he does have luxating patella (similar to hip dysplasia) and unfortunatly he has recently been diagnosed with epilepsy but we have only had 3 episodes so far and they are fairly wide apart.. we have switched him to a no grain diet in an effort to see if it might help him (I ALMOST.. ALMOST switched him to BARF but I dont yet feel comfortable enough to do this) Luckly, Ozzy seems to be the only one of his litter with these problems and I sure hope Ozzy's just the only one... My breeder checks in on me regularly and I keep her up to date on what's going on with Ozzy.. she's been extreamly helpful and supportive.

I guess my main concerns with the dog interaction is the growing number of people walking in my neighbourhood with their dogs offleash.. and all would be fine if they listened and stayed close to their owners.. but they just see me and Ozzy and run up while the owner is far behind hollering "he's friendly" .. I've told people off, telling them to leash their dog but I've actually had someone tell me to "muzzle that thing" ... I just dont want my dog to get hurt.. I want to be able to walk him safly in my neighbourhood without having to constantly pick him up in my arms because of people who dont follow leash laws... I do like the method of getting infront of my dog, that's a good idea and I am most definitly going to try that, especially when I get the "He's friendly!" yell...

I will continue to brows that website you gave me.. I tried finding sites online myself but I sure came back with a while lot of nothing I hadn't already read in an obedience book... Thank You so much you have so far given me the most sound advice out of anyone I've talked to

I found this in the article about "Agressiona Basics" from the website you gave me "Very often, a dog is tagged as aggressive when the incident occurred while the dog was quietly laying down or sitting and simply responded to another dog who climbed onto him or invaded his space. This is very different from the dog who actively seeks out confrontation, and will move toward another dog in order to provoke conflict."

This is more of what we are experiencing.. more of what is my concern... is Ozzy WANTS to greet the other dog we see.. and the other dog is also trying to get over to Ozzy... so we both decide to let them greet.. Everythings fine for a few seconds while they smell and then he lashes out.. if he wants to go over and greet the other dog.. is he then not actively seeking confrontation
and provoking a conflict?? .. true he so far hasn't done any damage to another dog which is something that is quite strongly emphasised in the article you had provided.. and I know for a fact that his agression is not just leash related as I had him offleash at a private campground where it was just Ozzy and a Weimaraner... we let the two offleash and Ozzy was completly being a bully.. we thought it would stop when he would assert dominent status but the Weimarner ended up hiding under a picnic table with his tail between his legs and anytime he would try to come out Ozzy would just bully him right back under the table... maybe this is normal behaviour? I honestly don't know now...

When it warms up here enough I'm going to grab my brothers video camera and do some video's and then maybe that would give a much clearer picture of his personality... I also read the article on "Leadership Basics" and we do practice all that was mentioned in that article.. however, I know I have some work to do with getting him to listen to me when there is dog or human distractions around so that will be something that we will begin to strongly work on.. he's quite the smart dog and I do take pride in how much obedience I taught him all on my own as a first time dog owner lol

These video's were from quite a while back and he does know more then this..










The spin was a new trick so I had to use the treat to guide him.. now all I have to say is spin.. he dosnt always get treat rewards like he doe sin these vids.. sometimes its just praise, sometimes we throw a ball for him...

I hope maybe these vids might give you at least a slight indication of his personality.. for one I know he's definitly very willing to please lol

Ozzy is sooo cute. Smart little devil too.

I love that article that D&D posted. It is a great read. I have had that on my favorites list for awhile.

If you are wanting to find a trainer to help you or to train, check them out with references. Ask them how they are planning to deal with it. What type of styles to they do? Most will have a consultation with you if they are a private trainer and meet with the dog. If you don't jive with them, walk away. Trust your gut. If they do classes (great way for socialization in a controlled manner), watch a class and see how they teach. Talk to the students and see what they think.

I personally hate when people let their dogs walk up to mine and immediately let them stick their noses in their butts. It is rather rude. My dogs don't like it and are touchy to this contact if it is dragged out. I taught my dogs that they can meet when I tell them they can and to stop sniffing when I tell them to. Asher is the king of meeting everyone on the walk, so it was difficult for him. I see though in your video that you have taught Ozzy the leave it and he knows it. "Leave it" is the command that Asher is told when we walk by something that he is to leave. Dogs for instance. When we are approaching a dog, I tell him to leave it. He walks by them and pays no attention. He learned to block them out unless I told him they were OK to get to know. We met plenty of loose dogs on the walks, so he would "Leave it" and ignore them. The dogs would get used to him walking by daily and run to the end of the street and sit there watching him.

You can also try to find the specific things that might trigger him, if there are. Things that he doesn't like. For instance, Asher doesn't like his face bothered a lot by other dogs. Excessive face licking is too much, or jumping on his face too much. Harmony is a butt girl. She hates bum sniffers. Doodle doesn't care as long as he is touched. These are the things you can either avoid or work to condition to a positive note. It will take time to improve.

Good luck. We can only set-up our dogs to pass and take charge.

Thank you so much ... now that I think about it he DOSN'T like it when the dog tries to snuff his butt.. I think that once we get warm weather here I'm going to go on a hunt for a good trainer that will be willing to work with his leash manners upon meeting new dogs.. I havn't tried telling him to "leave it" to other dogs.. I just assumed he'd only understand the command when it comes to food or objects, but even if he dosnt get it, I can always condition "leave it" to be part of our walk...

He really likes to learn and personally I think he would have made an ideal agility companion if it wasn't for his knee problems but at least I can still work on obedience with him and get him to be a respectable canine citizen in all sorts of aspects ... if anyone happens to come across any more articles that may be useful for my situation, I'd be very greatful if you shared it with me ... as for now.. I am going to go browsing Dobermantalk for more pictures of all your beautiful babies.. I am in complete awe of these abolsutly beautiful dogs (personality and look wise )

Box_It said:

I found this in the article about "Agressiona Basics" from the website you gave me "Very often, a dog is tagged as aggressive when the incident occurred while the dog was quietly laying down or sitting and simply responded to another dog who climbed onto him or invaded his space. This is very different from the dog who actively seeks out confrontation, and will move toward another dog in order to provoke conflict."

completly being a bully..

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See, I don't see it that way. Your kiddo is not being quiet or sitting. He is trying to make contact and being rude IMO. He is invading the other dog's space or sending vibes and energy that are not calm and even. You said he is the one actually pulling you, he wants to say hi. That is being confrontational, he isn't ignoring or doing nothing.

I teach my dogs to mind their own business and not be rude and invade the space of other dogs. This is important at dog shows, dog classes, and just walking around town or at pet places (Petsmart, Petco, etc.). They are not allowed to "say hi" on the end of a leash for 5 seconds.
I used to let one of mine greet on leash he would just get too rowdy and think every dog near him wants to roughhouse when I let him meet and greet all these different dogs. When he saw a dog, he got way too excited. This was not what I wanted. He would probably get bit by a dog trying to teach him some manners when he got all up in their face.

Instead, I taught him manners and he is easy and great to take into all public places now. He knows other dogs, are just that, other dogs. He minds his own business, they mind theirs (or they should). He learned quickly and has been good for years now, you can use whatever works for your dog to help him learn. Other dogs walking around on leash are not challenges, not to be stared at, not to be protected from, they are not to be played with, they are not be barked at, they are not there for him. My dogs are nice, but seeing other dogs becomes a non-issue.

I am with DreamDoby, dogs that want to meet and greet mine and tow their owners on over on leash bug me. I taught my dogs to mind their manners and behave in public, I don't appreciate others letting their dogs on flexi's invade my dog's personal space and I don't allow it to happen if I can help it. I talk to the owner and stand in front of my dog's. Also what DreamDoby was saying, set your dog up to succeed, not fail. Don't get tense and let him meet other random strange dogs on leash.

I set up tons of playdates for my dogs at relatives homes, the training center, and doggie daycares. They have lots of chances to work on manners with other dogs I know and trust.

Off leash you said he was being bully. It is up to us to define what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior when playing and interacting -esp. with pushy dogs that are somewhat bulling. Not the dogs responsibility - but the owners. Let's take my 85-90 lb. very pushy male Doberman again for an example. I had to teach him boundaries and what is okay and not okay when in play - even if that meant taking all playing privileges away when he got too carried away and removing him until he calmed down. He is pushy and sometimes a bully, I let him know this is not acceptable and he will stop being so rude with a command when playing with other dogs.

Sometimes he is too much for some dogs and we simply don't let them play. Every dog plays differently with one another, the dynamics in each relationship are different. My other dogs have doggie manners naturally and I didn't have to do too much teaching with them, they listen to other dogs better and aren't near as pushy as the male. Some dogs require more guidance from humans. I hope this makes sense

He sure is adorable! I love Bostons and Frenchies a lot.
A good training class would help a lot with a good AKC training club. If you don't know how to find one in your area you can go to AKC's website.

Okay I think I am really starting to get what you mean now... and I will do a search for the thread you're speaking of (just not tonight as I'm about to head to bed in a few ) I live in Canada so I would have to look for a trainer through the CKC (I'll have a look at their website before I head to bed to see if there is anything like that here) There's also a trainer my friend gave me just a while back that has apparently a fairly good reputation.. she used to show and breed dogs and has experience with quite a few breeds... I'm thinking about possibly giving her a try.. I'm just not sure what warning signs I should watch out for... questions I should ask when booking a training session?

I think I could teach Ozzy to focus on me when he sees other dogs as he knows the command "look at me" .. we use it when we do retrieving type training.. I'll make him sit and stay.. throw a ball and I'll say "look at me" and he has to look into my eyes for however long I want him to (I can get him to do it for about 5 seconds now) before I give him the "go get it" command... so I guess there's another command I can use to re-direct his attention back to me!

SOOZ: I've just recently taught him to "get your hands up in the air" and he'll do a sitting beg and then I'll say "BANG" and thats when he drops.. I'm trying to get him to "feel ashamed on himself" but he's not really getting that one (putting his paw over his face in 'shame') and I'd like to get him to protend he has a sore paw as I saw someone else do that trick... not sure how to go about it without him getting hurt in the process... I also tried to teach him crawl.. but he definitly dosnt like the idea of dragging his belly across the floor/rug.. he ends up doing the play bow and scooting himself forward.. he's such a hoot and a half sometimes ha ha

Thank you all again for your help/support... DandD: Boston's and Frenchies definitly have a very special place in my heart now and its all thanks to my mum for not wanting us to get a large/larger dog.. Ozzy's changed her so much though She calls him her grandson and dosnt mind the thought of having a big/bigger dog anymore.. in fact, she said if we had an acreage she would want to have a Great Dane for herself HA HA.. talk about going from small dog to big!!

Have a good night everyone.. I will also be discussing this topic with a friend of mine who has a Boxer... She's having the opposite problems ith HER dog though... a lot of other dogs dont like HIM.. The only thing I can't figure out with her and this new concept I've learned of respect is... Her Boxer lays down and waits for the other dog to approach him (this is offleash) and then he gets up and both dogs sniff and then the other dog growls... Can I explain this as sending uneven vibes and energy as DandD explained above? Why would some dogs tolerate/want to play with him and others not? just more tolerant? ... Sorry I keep asking more and more questions! but I hunger for answers/information ... dogs and dog behaviour is really a passion.. I wish I was able to get into dogs at a younger age but I wasnt allowed a dog until I was 18! That of course didnt stop me from research but I sure hadn't come across anything like this before.. so I feel very blessed