When I first began researching this breed, I must admit that I was disappointed to find out that their ears and tails were not naturally that way to conform what to the 'typical' Dobe should look like, rather, humans have had to alter them. This topic is obviously hugely controversial and both camps do have their points - this is not what this thread is about. At this point in time, I would still prefer my future Dobe to be cropped and docked. Still, I am wondering if there is anyone you're heard of that is trying to alter the breed so that their ears and tails are naturally upright and short, respectively? Would this even be possible?
tranquility
- Status
probably not. you would have to bring in some other breeds or find some genetic throwback to get the ears to stand and with that small possibility you'd be loosing WAAAAY more then is worth it. Then chances you could ever find a dobe that would be breedable and have its ears stand erect naturally would be like a needle in an ocean.
The tails I dont even think is possible. There is only one or two breeds if any that are born with short tails.
The tails I dont even think is possible. There is only one or two breeds if any that are born with short tails.
I do believe at one point in the breed they tried to select for a natural "bobbed" tail, but the gene that causes it is lethal when doubled up on. (someone correct me if I am not quite right)
I have seen naturally standing ears on a doberman, and WHOO, they look like the ears on my Pharaoh Hounds, only bigger. It can happen but it's not common.
I have seen naturally standing ears on a doberman, and WHOO, they look like the ears on my Pharaoh Hounds, only bigger. It can happen but it's not common.
It was done with boxers with various levels of success for the tail. Pricked ears failed early as I recall but I don't think a lot of effort was directed towards ears.
GENETICS
Look at the number of generations, that they had to start with a breed that had a bob tail naturally to isolate the gene, produce consistant results (noting that some may be a swirl nub while others may be half tail length) and then breed enough generations to get the dogs considered purebred again and back into the registries.
I don't think akc would ever allow them back into a breed book where foundation stock is not allowed even if they started with a dobe and a Pembroke Welsh Corgi (which is what they used for the bobtail gene in boxers) You want the cross to be something far enough away phenotypically that it is easier to cull the ones who show the wrong traits out. IE you want to keep the bob tail but not the short legs etc.
It's interesting reading and there is more on the web if you search.
GENETICS
Look at the number of generations, that they had to start with a breed that had a bob tail naturally to isolate the gene, produce consistant results (noting that some may be a swirl nub while others may be half tail length) and then breed enough generations to get the dogs considered purebred again and back into the registries.
I don't think akc would ever allow them back into a breed book where foundation stock is not allowed even if they started with a dobe and a Pembroke Welsh Corgi (which is what they used for the bobtail gene in boxers) You want the cross to be something far enough away phenotypically that it is easier to cull the ones who show the wrong traits out. IE you want to keep the bob tail but not the short legs etc.
It's interesting reading and there is more on the web if you search.
i think it would be practically impossible to genetically select these traits into a doberman. it would take WAY too long, though i do think that was an interesting question.
mojo, as for your WOW, I have had several people stunned to find out that dobermans do not have naturally short tails and pricked ears, i do not know why you would find this question so surprising and i don't really think your response was appropriate... tranq is trying learn about the breed and its a valid question to ask.. i think.
mojo, as for your WOW, I have had several people stunned to find out that dobermans do not have naturally short tails and pricked ears, i do not know why you would find this question so surprising and i don't really think your response was appropriate... tranq is trying learn about the breed and its a valid question to ask.. i think.
I had heard there was a breeder in england many years ago breeding for ears that stood on their own, with some success but the rest of the dobe was far from desirable so she gave up. don't know who but the person I heard the story from is reliable, it came up when we were talking about how big the ears are and the standard calls for a small ear, not what we have these days!
We should stop playing god. If the dobeman was not traditionally cropped and docked, would they be as popular now? Probably not. Us people are so shallow.
Doberman sends owner into surgery. "His ears just weren't attractive enough", barked the doberman. " I much prefer them pointy" the dobe added.
Is this what happened to spock???
Doberman sends owner into surgery. "His ears just weren't attractive enough", barked the doberman. " I much prefer them pointy" the dobe added.
Is this what happened to spock???
Dobermans are an entirely man made breed, they never ran wild through the woods and meadows anywhere.
The desired ear and tail on this man made breed (just a bit over 100 yr old) was a prick ear and short tail, to fit the reason they were created. While you or others may feel it is attractive, it had a pratical application.
Had they been left to natural selection they would not exist.
The desired ear and tail on this man made breed (just a bit over 100 yr old) was a prick ear and short tail, to fit the reason they were created. While you or others may feel it is attractive, it had a pratical application.
Had they been left to natural selection they would not exist.
It's said there was a line of naturally bobbed tailed dobermans in the very early years of the breed. That trait was lost when Manchester terrier was brought in to improve the pigmentation in the markings.
It's also said efforts to produce upright ears were not successful. It happens once in a blue moon-not a particularly attractive look.
It's also said efforts to produce upright ears were not successful. It happens once in a blue moon-not a particularly attractive look.
Why would you bother going to all that effort to make ears stand up anyway. Whats the point??? What is their practical use now???
Its not the dobie's fault he's a result of gene play and neither is it mine.
Why should we make it hard for them by cropping when there's no need.
It's not shallow to own a dobe. It's shallow to cut their ears because you prefer them that way.
There's no need to patronise. I'm fully open minded to the complications of selective breeding.
Stop trying to make my point more complicated than it is. It really is simple. Us people are so shallow. It is not a personal attack, it is an honest observation of the species that I am part of. Chill.........
Why should we make it hard for them by cropping when there's no need.
It's not shallow to own a dobe. It's shallow to cut their ears because you prefer them that way.
There's no need to patronise. I'm fully open minded to the complications of selective breeding.
Stop trying to make my point more complicated than it is. It really is simple. Us people are so shallow. It is not a personal attack, it is an honest observation of the species that I am part of. Chill.........
I currently own aussie's. There can be natural bob tails in a litter however...they vary in length. I personally think a natural bob is a genetic defect and one should never bred "for" that as the result would be unknown and in my opinion not truly healthy. Perhaps anal problems might go along with that or something along those lines.
Ill bet that within the next 50-100 years, geneticists will be able to do all kinds of things without any breeding involved. A bit worrisome in many respects but promising in others.
I knew that ears were surgically cropped prior to getting my first doberman. What I *didn't* know was that the cut edges were left exposed afterwards...I thought when you saw those puppies with "bandaged" ears, that was a newly cropped puppy.
Guys, please remember that the OP stated he'd perfer that this thread not be what this thread is about. He was curious of the genetics and the role is plays in these possibilites.
yup, i understand tranquility and I thought it was a good point to note that.
you leave the edges open so they can heal and then you can start posting.
Mr. dobermann, who created the breed, was a tax collector.
you leave the edges open so they can heal and then you can start posting.
Mr. dobermann, who created the breed, was a tax collector.
How does the fact that some poeple choose to crop/dock their dogs make all people from the US "Shallow" I am very proud to be an American/ US citizen. So when someone generalizes and starts name calling yes I take offense.
dusuwho>
Please note that getting into the controversial issue of natural vs cropped/docked is not the pt of this thread. Can we kindly stay on topic? Thanks.
Please note that getting into the controversial issue of natural vs cropped/docked is not the pt of this thread. Can we kindly stay on topic? Thanks.
Natural Prick Doberman Ears?
I'm new to this forum, but I do have a question about my pup. We were told he was a rottweiler, which I wholeheartedly believed until his ears started to perk up. Now he looks like a Dobe with natural prick ears.
![]()
![]()
Just looking for opinions...
Oh and he is about 4 months now. His ears started to go up when he was 12ish weeks
thanks!
I'm new to this forum, but I do have a question about my pup. We were told he was a rottweiler, which I wholeheartedly believed until his ears started to perk up. Now he looks like a Dobe with natural prick ears.
Just looking for opinions...
Oh and he is about 4 months now. His ears started to go up when he was 12ish weeks
thanks!
Attachments
- Status
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
