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Dobermans Vs Shepherds/Mals

25K views 49 replies 30 participants last post by  Cathy43 
#1 ·
Ok I've been debating this post for awhile, but after gaining more experience with german shepherds, a few belgian malinois, and more dobermans, I am interested on people's opinions about how these dogs differ.

I am speaking more towards the working variety of shepherds and mals, because I know there is a vast difference between the average pet german shepherd and the working shepherd. I have seen the difference in classes and friends who own pet BYB german shepherds (labs in fuzzy long black/brown hair). I know there are also huge differences between the mals and the shepherds, however, I am placing them together because they have similar genetics as far as being 'herding' dogs are concerned.

My trainer gave me a good short story involving the shepherds vs the dobermans mindset, which I thought was both entertaining and rather suiting to the two breeds, but I am not even going to attempt to put my notions into words. The differences I have picked up on, I can not yet decide how to word it, but I am wondering what their differences are like as far as working, training, learning, and of course just living with them for those who have had experience with the breed but did not work.

I would personally never own a German Shepherd, but many years from now I would possibly own one Mal, simply for their strong drives along with their health and longevity. However, this is a huge maybe, I honestly do not think I could ever look at a nice Dobe pup, and then a nice Mal pup, and stick with the Mal.

So yeah, if anyone has experience with both Dobermans and either of the other two breeds, please share for interests sake! Lol and don't feel shy to post pictures ;)
 
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#9 ·
Sorry, I have no experience with Mals, but I just wanted to LOL @ this...

Sorry, this may be a little off topic but it made me think of this video! LOL (click on watch on youtube)
That was so good...reminds me of a conversation I had with SO. Before we got Rowan I asked him, "Are you SURE you want a doberman? You do realize they are a high energy, high drive breed, right?". (I grew up with them, his family had PUGS). He said he was sure. A few months ago I asked him again, "Remember when I asked you if you realized these dogs were high energy? Did you REALLY get it?" He paused...."Nope."

You just can't explain it to people...but seeing this video sure does sum it up. :)
 
#5 ·
Hubby and I raised a police malinois last year. I am also very familiar with working shepherds. My trainer has a working line shepherd that she trains in schutzhund, agility, and competition obedience and I see her almost daily so I'm pretty familiar with that dog as well. Gunner is my second doberman. Personally, as a companion I would choose a doberman hands down. If I wanted a strictly competition dog to show, I would go with another well bred malinios. The main difference I see with the mal we raised and with Gunner is that the mal was very serious. He was not at all affectionate and rarely loosened up or relaxed. Gunner is a goof and is usually very relaxed and easy going. They are opposites in that regard. The mal was much more responsive to commands. I could give him a certain look, and he would respond. He was nearly human in his intelligence and wanted to work. Although he was very easy to train, he did not seek to please as much as a doberman IMO. He did it because it was his job, not because he was trying to please me. Again, he lacked an affectionate side which was sometimes hard. He did his job well but sometimes acted like he didn't care if we were around or not. Gunner is a velcro dog and I LOVE that about dobermans. He obeys because he wants to please me and is extremely affectionate. There are tons more differences but that is just my experiences.
 
#16 · (Edited)
What Olivia has said here is completely right.

My friend has 2 Malinois whom she both works and shows. Her aim is to breed the 2 (she has a male and female). Both are from incredible lines and both are doing fantastically in both the working sphere as well as showing.
Bala the male is a workaholic, he works, works, works, his idea of fun is playing with a ball, however, the ball is his drive, he will sit and stare for hours at it, without moving his attention so fixed you could shoot a pistol next to him and he doesnt bat an eyelid. When he is doing bite work it is not a game, it is serious, he goes in fast, hard and with 100% commitment.
Etna the female is food driven but boy is she committed to her work, admittedly she is a little more laid back than Bala in her approach, but the moment you put on the bite arm she is all business and you had best be on your toes as she comes in equally as hard as her male counterpart.
Both are French Ring trained and both are now doing their EPO/Shutzhund. Both have racked up Champion titles in Showing and both are generating a great deal of interest in future litters.

My friend has worked with me with Toby for over 12 months now trying to iron out his issues with regards his reactivity. She has commented on how intelligent Toby is, but he is no where near as driven as her Mali's. Toby does things to please me, her dogs do it because it is part of what they are.
One thing that surprised me about her dogs was the fact that I can work them admittedly not as good as she does but still I can get them to do their stuff both in the working ring and show ring pretty easily, (once I knew what drove them). Toby, however, is my velcro dog and that is that. He is forever looking to me no matter where I am hiding even if I am not there he is looking for me to check if it is okay, whereas her dogs just work, work, work as long as you know what drives them, ball, or titbit.

Another friend recently asked me if I would be having a Mali pup from my friend when they have some, my immediate response was. 'Not on your life, they are too much like hard work, give me a Dobe every time, they are so much nicer, more friendly, more family orientated than a Mali no matter which way you look at it.'
By the way, my friend added to my above statement that whilst we are friends, she wouldnt let me have a pup simply because for anyone to have a Mali they have got to be 100% serious in what they do, working, showing etc, etc, I just want a pet, who is obedient and that just isnt enough for a Mali, they have to be doing something and that something is working.

Just wanted to add, I would not have a GSD if you paid me a million euros, I have never met one that I felt completely comfortable with, I think it is their eyes, they just stare right through you. Maybe I have met only bad ones, (even though the latest bunch I have met are Champion Show dogs and Working Titled boys and girls) fact is their incessant yapping, their sudden outbursts, their thousand yard stare just creeps me out.
 
#6 ·
The wish to please you thing you speak of sounds like the thing my trainer told me. She gave me the scenario of throwing a ball to a doberman and a shepherd. When you throw it the shepherd, the shepherd thinks "Oh yes, ball. I'm going to get the ball, I'm gonna get that ball.... Oh I got the ball, success, now I must bring the ball back". Whereas when you throw the ball to the doberman the dobe says "Omg yes I love playing ball! I'm gonna get the ball! I'm gonna get it! Oh wait, a butterfly.... Does mom want a butterfly? Oh no she wants the ball, ok mom I'm getting the ball! I got the ball! Here's the ball, I'll share with you if you want, or did you want the butterfly?"

The doberman impression cracked me up haha they sure do love their mommies(Or daddies) and they seem to be much goofier and maybe more ADD.
 
#8 ·
Yes, that's EXACTLY it! Gunner is very smart and easy to train, but he is NOTHING like the malinois. That dog seriously would read my mind before I even had decided what command to give..it was spooky sometimes how closely he watched me. But again, he was doing it because he was born to work. He worked 24/7....there was an off switch but you had to know how to find it. With Gunner, it's more the opposite. You have to find the ON switch LOL and get his lazy butt off the couch :roflmao: They are both amazing breeds...personally a doberman is my choice though. I love that they are clowns who can also be serious and work when needed.
 
#7 ·
Here are some pics of Vader, our little maligator :) Gosh he was a cool dog. He is now doing bomb training with our local military and is a favorite. When we got him we had planned for hubby to use him on patrol, but then his department phased out all of their malinois and went only to drug dogs (mostly labs). His talent was too great to waste so we let him go to a working home. He was bred to work and would not have been happy as a pet.

When we first got him...around 16 weeks.


Growing up!


Babies are yummy :p


Introducing some tracking work at our local park..


He grew to be a BIG boy...much larger than the tiny things you sometimes see. He was solid and fast!
 
#12 ·
We have a working line GSD in my search and rescue group. The differences between him and Callie are pretty apparent when you get them together.

Hes very vocal and task oriented, where Callie is stone silent (I've heard her bark all of twice!). Superficial difference, but difference none the less.

He also seems less affectionate than the dobes I've known. If you get all animated and excited and play with him (tug is his reward for a successful find) he wont wag his tail, or show you any indication that he's actually enjoying himself. Its kinda weird, but he keeps bringing the toy back and wants to tug.

Callie, on the other hand, goes absolutely BONKERS when she gets released to her play reward after a find. Shes jumping, her nubbin is going a million miles an hour, play bowing, prancing- 110% a HAPPY girl :)
 
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#14 ·
I bet that ZeldaRules will have some thoughts to add to this thread, I know that she is involved with both GSDs and dobermans.

We had to make the extremely difficult decision to put our GSD down recently. We had been wrestling with her extreme reactivity and aggression since the day she came home at eight weeks. Knowing much less about the GSD world then, we took the recommendation of an agility contact on a breeder. We didn't do nearly enough digging for red flags. They probably weren't the very worst breeder, there was at least health testing, but knowing what I know now, I would consider them a BYB. We went through the wringer with every kind of reasonable intervention with her, management, really, you name it. We worked with trainers, behaviorists, her veterinarian, a second veterinarian, mentors within the GSD world. In the end, she was not safe. I won't get into all of the depressing details of her spiral, as this would be a very, very long post, but I would just caution people to be aware that a backyard bred GSD is not always a lab in shepherd's clothing - I've encountered any number that do fit that description, but just as many that are unstable, unpredictable, unsound, heart-breaking, and riddled with problems. Not that this is not the buyer's fault ultimately, but after what we've gone through with Piper, it worries me when something sounds almost like an endorsement for BYB GSDs, although I have no doubt that that was not the OP's intent, so please don't take that as an attack of any kind, Asmit. :)

All that aside, Piper and the other GSDs I've known have a lot in common with dobermans at face value, but there are a lot of differences. Piper was very intense and focused in her training, Java is also intense and focused but in more of a crack-head way. That's not a bad thing - I prefer it myself, my fiance is the GSD fanatic, much as I love living with one. Java is just much more energetic in training, he leaps around and gets excited when he's trying to figure out a new command. Piper would look at us with this stoic, bored, completely disinterested look while learning something new, and we'd be frustrated for a week or two until suddenly she'd give us what we'd asked for flawlessly, and that was that. She'd known it all along, but she wasn't doing it until it suited her. Once we crossed that bridge, she was a force to be reckoned with in training. I've never seen such a gorgeous heel and perfect focus.

In play, Java is again much sillier. We called Piper the fun police. She would herd dogs away from each other when they played, take toys away when they were being frolicked with, nip the heels of dogs with zoomies. Java is the opposite. He's also lazier and easier, but when he's feeling playful, he has no problem letting his hair down (such as it is) and having fun. Piper was so serious.

Of course, it's also worth mentioning that there seems to be a greater divide in lines between the breeds. A Czech, DDR, and American GSD might as well be different breeds in some ways. I haven't noticed anything so drastic in dobermans, but I may just not be noticing the right things, I wouldn't call my opinion educated there just yet. If it exists, though, I'd say it's more subtle than it is in GSDs. A lot of doberman quirks seem to span the breed, from the lowliest BYB doberman to the most well-bred, and across the lines.

I could probably go on about this all day. Here are a few pictures of Piper.


10 - Copy by bl_meyers, on Flickr


11 (3) by bl_meyers, on Flickr


13 (6) by bl_meyers, on Flickr


24 (2) by bl_meyers, on Flickr


101 pt 2 by bl_meyers, on Flickr


securedownload (1) by bl_meyers, on Flickr
 
#15 ·
So Sorry to hear about the loss you had to take :( It sounds like you probably did what was best for the dog though.Yes I in no way meant that the BYB GSDs are all friendly, but more along the lines of, they are far from working dogs, and far from what the shepherd was originally made for.

I too have seen a few different lines of GSDs and also thought they were almost completely different breeds. It confuses me to try and think about all of the differences in lines and types of GSDs, so I'll leave that as it is for now :) But the degree of differences in the GSDs is insane. As you said, there are quirks similar to almost all Dobes, that I don't think hold true for the shepherds. Even my BYB oversized lazy sleepyhead doberman still holds true to the doberman personality and has the same little doberquirks the rest of DT have.
 
#17 ·
I'm glad I found this thread as we have raised 2 GSD and 3 Dobermans.

I will begin by saying we always research & purchase German dogs. Very well bred (usually quite expensive) We want to know what we are getting for health, temperment, ability, and need to see their ancestors.

My experience on GSD vs Doberman:

Our male Shep was Shutz level II trained as he was slated to be a police dog. He stopped eating when seperated from my husband. Obviously did not go on to be a police dog, but was our PERFECT family dog for 11 years. I can't remember him ever doing one thing wrong. He did not want to disapoint us. IMO that is a German Shepherd. Highly intelligent, extremly protective, great with kids. Simply perfect.

We currently have a 5yr old female Shep.
No training.
Again very well bred and she came perfect, right out of the box. Claire doesn't do anything wrong either. Very tolerant of her Dober siblings. The new pup pulls on her tail. Claire comes running when you call her. She did that as a 4 month old.

Now, Baby Garth, my male black Dobe was probably the most "trying" puppy on the planet. Very smart, high drive for play & work, and he drove me to tears on many occations. Equally as smart as my male Shep, but Garth had to test me every step of the way. He ate furniture, shoes, clothing, the seat out of my brand new truck, the list goes on. The boys were raised together and received the same discipline and exercise. (Axl, was a few years older.)

Our current Red Female Dobe is also a handful. Loving and sweet as a Dobe should be. Saucy and demanding. Way too smart!!!! Its all about her. Don't crowd her space.
Mine food bowl. Mine mommy. Mine couch.

Claire lies quietly on the floor and rolls her eyes.

I wouldn't want to live without either. From my experience, both are exceptional dogs. Very bright, brave, beautiful and loving. My GSDs always want to please. My Dobermans always want to make me work.

(will try to load pics later)
 
#18 · (Edited)
If your thinking between a Mal and a doberman. My gut is saying for you to stick with a doberman. What do you want in a dog, a companion or to work it? Why would you never consider a Shepard?

I recently adopted Zoey, a Mali/GSD mix and she is a FIRECRACKER! Luckily i am a very active and healthy guy, so I give her the exercise she needs, although she would like exercise all day long. They NEED to be worked and to be worn out, or you will go crazy!!!! I love all three breeds, I really cant tell you my favorite so there is no bias opinions here. If you can handle the high energy that this breed has, is a strong leader, and is experienced, then i say go for it. Hopefully in a few years, I will pickup a dobey pup and will have my dreams come true. Untill then, its just me and this lovely lady.




PS toby, i wouldn't say that dobeys are more people friendly and family oriented then Malis. For the most part, yes. Although mine is ridiculously affectionate and LOVESSSSSS people. Must be the GSD in her though.
 
#20 ·
If your thinking between a Mal and a doberman. My gut is saying for you to stick with a doberman. What do you want in a dog, a companion or to work it? Why would you never consider a Shepard?
First, I would never debate between getting a Doberman or a mal. I will always have a Dobe in my life, but at some point I might also have a mal. With my future dobermans, I will buy from working breeders with intent to work, but if something happened and the dog chose say agility over schutzhund or being a couch potato (which I know wouldn't happen with most working breeders), I would not mind for the dog to be just an active companion. For a Doberman, I would have a "pet" first, and a "working dog" second. If I were ever to get a Mal, he would 100% be a working dog and participate in dog sport. I would consider him "working dog" first. However, I highlyyyyy doubt I will ever get a Malinois, just if I did, it be a working dog all the way.

And I'm sorry, but I just am not fond of German Shepherds, I can admire nice ones from a distance, but I do not like them for more reasons than I wish to explain on the forum! Mainly because I do not want to start an argument and everyone of course has their own opinions. I was/am honestly just interested in seeing if the traits I have picked up on with the GSDs around me are pretty common in the breed, or just the ones I have encountered.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I had a wonderful malinois bitch, she lived to be about 12. I think if you're involved in training dogs, it's hard to beat a *good* malinois. However, I doubt I'll ever have another-I'm just too damned old to put up with all that busy....maybe if I were 20 years younger. :)'

There are a lot of mals around that are a bit too sketchy/nervy for me, so I'd be really careful about who I bought from and what the parents/pedigree was like. But a good malinois is about as stable a dog as you'll ever see.

In terms of number of dogs who can excell at protection sports, there's no comparison between malinois or dobermans-the malinois will win that by a landslide.

A major down side for me of either malinois or gsd is that hair...
 
#23 ·
I haven't kept up with malinois pedigrees in years-but looking at the pedigree of one of his dogs, Gator, I was pretty impressed. He's using the same lines as my mal bitch-Deux Pottois from Belgium.

The breeder who used the Deux Pottois kennel name basically brought this breed back from the brink of extinction after WWll, and his dogs dominated the Ring Sport world for many years...the male G'vitou was a VERY influential working dog/stud dog in the malinois genepool, I see he appears multiple times in Gator's pedigree.
 
#25 ·
Most people want a Mal for work; most people want a Dobe as a family dog. Breeders of each breed are happy to oblige producing Dobes and Mals that fulfill those roles well.

Obviously, there are certainly exceptions to each as well; there are a few serious Doberman breeders who place their emphasis on their dogs working above all else, just as there are Mal breeders that breed for companions above working ability.
 
#27 ·
I currently own a dobe and a gsd, both working lines. I had a mali that I raised for a year then sold to a club member. THru my club I work with many many malinois.

I think the best thing to keep in mind is that when people talk "malinois" they need to understand that the malinois is a very diverse breed. There are french ring mals, belgian ring mals, knvp mals, and IPO mals. All these lines have been bred for these different sports and specialized for many many generations. Do they interbreed the lines, yes absolutely but each different line has different qualities.

This aspect is not really seen in any other breed, even the gsd , as the mali has been the breed of choice for these sports for well over 50 years.

What difference does this make?

Well a KNVP bred mali is for the most part a physically tough, stubborn, hard dog. Handler sensitivity is not really focused on. A belgian ring mali always wants to have its mouth full, and they satiate simply from that feeling. A french ring mal is usually handler sensitive, fast, smaller and agile with super high prey drive.

The breeders from these sports will cross between the two if the lines need it. For example a french ring breeder finds his lines getting too handler sensitive or too small or too soft, they will look towards the belgian or knvp lines, etc.

Very diverse.

My dobermann is intense, and focused. He is not ever off sniffing butterflies! He is driven to work. Pretty much every trainer I have ever worked with has told me he is a mali in black and tan clothing. My first working dobe was also very intense and focused. My current dobie is mostly eastern european working with a bit of german working, and my first was all german working. So I can't speak to the trainers comments about focus issues.

Both my working dobes have been do-ers not think-ers, especially my current male. He would rather just go, do rather than think thru something. In training that has led to some very frustrating moments in the learning process.

My dobes have been hard to live with in that they want to work and train hard. However they followed my rules. They never jumped my fence, or brough harm to themselves because they were freaking out. I could put my dobes in a yard with a 2 foot fence and know that when I came back they would still be there. They really have no desire to be anywhere else but with me.

I find dobes to be similar to malis...but like I said my dobes are very malinois like. My mali was very attached to me, always wanted to be with me, always wanted to work. Very smart, a good thinking dog, maybe a bit over thinking. In their quest to figure stuff out sometimes they get confused. A mali does, imho, figure things out quicker than a dobe. They seem to put 2 and 2 together faster. My mali wasn't any different to live with than my dobe.

OMG my GSD is like a completely different being!! She is unlike any other dog I have ever owned. Incredibly smart! Incredibly athletic! So so so much work. So hard to live with. So very much hair! She is a "good soldier" as most gsd are. They are quick to learn their job and then perform it to the best of their abilities continually. They can do repetitive tasks happily over and over. They do not make independant decisions well, unless they have been taught to think that way. Not physically affectionate when compared to a dobe or a mali. My GSD has a high level of natural civil drive, that neither my dobes or mali's have.

I do not think I would voluntarily own another gsd. I do like this gsd, but not enough to get another one. All things considered for ring the mali is a better choice, if I was going to get another breed. But if I was doing sch I would go with a gsd.
 
#28 ·
One problem with asking that kind of question is that many (if not most) of us will only own a few samples of a few breeds in our lifetime. The younger your survey group, the less likely it will be that they have anything resembling extensive experience with multiple dogs from multiple breeds.

Even trainers may not have much experience with multiple breeds, much less multiple individual dogs from differing breeds. For example, years ago when I first started researching the working breeds, the clubs I had contact with were primarily working with German Shepherd Dogs and a few Rottweillers here and there. None of the clubs had any experience with Dobermann's from tested pedigrees. All they ever encountered were Dobermann's from conformation only pedigrees. Trainers all said pretty much the same thing; that they heard there were still some good Dobermann's in Germany, but they never encountered one personally and every one they had tried to train was lacking. At that time there was little experience with the Malinios and the European/Tested pedigree GSD was the dog to compare all others to.

I've owned a GSD from a temperament tested pedigree, my brother had a KNPV Malinios as a Patrol Dog, I've fostered a Conformation only pedigree Dobermann and now own a temperament tested pedigree Dobermann.

That is really a very small sample to try and draw any conclusions from. For what it's worth, here is what I encountered.

The GSD was just as much of a Velcro dog as the Dobermann's but only in the house. With the GSD it was more of a visual Velcro. As long as she could see you it was OK, she did not always have to be physically next to you. Outside, if the GSD got bored she might go off exploring. The Dobermann's hung close even outside.

While the GSD liked to be right next to you or within sight, she was not very interested in being petted or loved on. The Dobermann's and the Malinios love being petted and given affection. The Malinios was just as much of a lap dog as the Dobermann's.

The GSD seemed to be born with a sense of responsibility- for example she slept in the doorway to the bedroom or would find a vantage point in the house where anyone headed to the bedrooms would have to encounter her first. She insisted on doing that until she was a couple years old. If you invited her onto the bed she would lay there for a bit then get up and go back to the doorway. Out camping she would position herself in a good place to 'guard' the camp, and she would patrol regularly. If I had never invited her to sleep on the bed she probably would have spent her whole life sleeping where she could control access to her people. When she got old and hard of hearing, she spent a lot of time parked at the front door. The GSD just seemed to be genetically hardwired that way. The Dobermann seems more inclined to just do what feels good unless something actually happens; then he reacts. I guess one could say that the GSD was more proactive and the Dobermann more reactive. The Malinios was very laid back if she wasn't working. She would sleep on the bed with her people or even let someone who appeared non threatening walk right into the house.

The GSD and Malinios were natural swimmers. The Dobermann did not have a natural swimming response and has to learn swimming technique.

The GSD had over the top prey drive. If you did not stop her she would chase darn near anything. If she was able to catch it she would kill it, or at least try to. She treed bears and inflicted fatal injuries on small dogs (fortunately for her, the dogs were trespassing on our property which by law gave her a pass. If it would have happened elsewhere we would have had legal problems). Cats, birds or any small critters were not safe from her. Lightening fast dog. I watched her catch and kill a rat in some stacks of lumber once and I doubt a Terrier could have done any better under those circumstances. The tested pedigree Dobermann has a nice moderate prey drive. The Malinios did her job using fight drive and had relativity little prey.

I suspect that the trainer who provided the butterfly analogy doesn't actually have much (if any) experience with Dobermann's from tested pedigrees. My limited first hand experience is that in terms of work ethic and what they were like to live with day to day, the GSD, Malinios and the Dobermann from a tested pedigree were pretty much the same. The odd dog out was the Dobermann from a conformation only pedigree. Very different temperament. Of those individual dogs, if you had to pick the one that was easiest to live with but was also capable of working, it would be the Malinios. If you did not care about work ethic then the conformation only pedigreed Dobermann would have been easiest to live with.

Some Dobermann specific things that I personally haven't seen with the GSD or Malinios are-
Nose pokey's
Using you as a table or vise while chewing on a bone/toy
Destructive temper tantrums (tearing up vehicle interiors, rugs or anything in reach)
Eating/swallowing random and dangerous stuff (panties, socks, rocks, rope, toys, etc.)
Body slamming for fun

Generally speaking, the Dobermann is by far the most regal looking of the three. The Malinios is the best performer. And of course there is the old adage about the GSD “He may not be the best at anything, but he is second best at everything”.
 
#29 ·
Thanks for the interesting thread contributions everyone. Looking ahead to the future, I am interested in getting a dog for competing (agility, tracking, obedience, rally and my partner who does USAR might be interested in borrowing the dog too) and have been looking at working Dobes and Mals. Still a few years away...
 
#30 · (Edited)
I respect everyone's opinion, and of course we all have our own experiences with certain dogs.

I am sad, however, that so many dog lovers here don't favor German Shepherds.

Gosh, Axl, had Shutzund training but was a perfect dog. He never worked as a police dog, but he was super protective of me. I trusted and loved him beyond measure. So loving, smart, loyal, soft brown eyes.

And Claire, again is so affectionate and sweet.
Our neighbors kid came running out to her unexpectedly while we were on a walk, and planted a kiss on Claire's face. The dog & I sort of just stopped and looked stunned. The 7 yr old child had observed me walking her so felt she was not a "strange dog". My Dobie would not have tolerated a running slobering kid.
Claire's beautiful brown eyes are a reflection of her sweet soul.

Would like to add that I love Dobermans & GSDs. Don't like the Shep hair but with 3 dogs I vacuum everyday anyway.
 
#31 ·
............................
I am sad, however, that so many dog lovers here don't favor German Shepherds..................
Hopefully I did not come across as someone who does not favor the German Shepherd Dog. My individual dog had too much prey drive, other than that she was a great dog. Based on my experience with that dog, I'm not a fan of super high prey drive. There are plenty of GSD's out there with moderate prey, so that is an individual issue, not a breed thing.

If I ever purchase another working breed it may be a GSD. My personal experience along with tons of reading and conversations with other GSD owners have led me to think that a balanced German Shepherd Dog is probably the best all around general purpose breed. “Second best at everything” seems to be an accurate statement.
 
#32 ·
Adhahn, the Dobermans she was speaking of were not her dobermans, but that of the average doberman pet owner. She trains a lot of BYB and rescued dogs, so no you are correct, the butterfly analogy was not for the working dobermann. She is a strictly working doberman breeder, and her dogs are extremely serious. One of them that she bred is actually trialing for his PSA III again in two weeks. He failed the first time with a bite during the obedience. Anways, that is off track, but she meant that the Dobermann was more actively involved in pleasing the owner, where as the GSDs she has encountered (obviously not her breeding) do the work for the sake of doing the work alone.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading your experiences, and as you said, everyone has a fairly 'limited' pool of what types of the particular breed they have been around. You say your Mals were very friendly, loving, and people oriented, whereas others say their Mals were not at all so. It is nice to here everyone's experiences though.
 
#33 ·
I also own a Mal and a Dobe, and have been around/handled many working mals/sheps. IMO, and with my personal dogs, they are both velcro dogs, and both very easy to please. Both respond best to training when working with a tug reward. Sonic (the mal) is much quicker in everything that we do, Dart (dobe) can be a little flighty or lazy. Dart is also quite a bit softer in training, he doesn't like excessive or harsh correction. Sonic doesn't care as much. He is more consistent in his trained behaviors too. I was able to do a SchH2 OB routine with him at 5 months old, and he scored a 92. Dart, 6 months at the time, couldn't complete the routine. Dobes generally mature much more slowly, and take a lot more repitition for a behavior to become habit. Although I will say, Dart potty trained like a dream! Sonic had more trouble in that regard. As far as living in the house, Dart follows me around more to see what I'm up to, but Sonic loves cuddling way more than Dart does. Sonic requires almost constant interaction and things to do, Dart does too, but he's way more relaxed about it. TBH there are pros and cons to each breed, and I think if it were me I would have to seriously consider what I planned to do with the dog in the future to pick which breed I would want. If I were planning on doing competition bite sport/OB/agility etc, I would hands down choose a mal. The precision is way more accurate and he's faster. Hopefully in the future, Dart will get there too =). Dart is trained in OB, Agility, tracking, and started in protection. Sonic is trained in OB, practical agility, narcotics detection, and started in protection. Both dogs were trained using the same methods and at the same age.
 
#34 ·
I also own a Mal and a Dobe, and have been around/handled many working mals/sheps. IMO, and with my personal dogs, they are both velcro dogs, and both very easy to please. Both respond best to training when working with a tug reward. Sonic (the mal) is much quicker in everything that we do, Dart (dobe) can be a little flighty or lazy. Dart is also quite a bit softer in training, he doesn't like excessive or harsh correction. Sonic doesn't care as much. He is more consistent in his trained behaviors too. I was able to do a SchH2 OB routine with him at 5 months old, and he scored a 92. Dart, 6 months at the time, couldn't complete the routine. Dobes generally mature much more slowly, and take a lot more repitition for a behavior to become habit. Although I will say, Dart potty trained like a dream! Sonic had more trouble in that regard. As far as living in the house, Dart follows me around more to see what I'm up to, but Sonic loves cuddling way more than Dart does. Sonic requires almost constant interaction and things to do, Dart does too, but he's way more relaxed about it. TBH there are pros and cons to each breed, and I think if it were me I would have to seriously consider what I planned to do with the dog in the future to pick which breed I would want. If I were planning on doing competition bite sport/OB/agility etc, I would hands down choose a mal. The precision is way more accurate and he's faster. Hopefully in the future, Dart will get there too =). Dart is trained in OB, Agility, tracking, and started in protection. Sonic is trained in OB, practical agility, narcotics detection, and started in protection. Both dogs were trained using the same methods and at the same age.
How exactly did your 5 month old malinois score a 92 for a SchH2 OB routine (previously known as an OB2 and now as a UPr2) when the minimum age for a BH is 15 months?
 
#35 ·
Great Question ! I have had both dobes & GSD's continually over the last 25 years (and we had a terrific labrador in there as well to boot!) Dobies own my heart, I am a most faithful doberman fan. I can speak to this issue as both family members and to some degree as working dogs. I will tell you however though that it is as true as anything else - it depends on where your dog comes from - what's behind the pedigree. We had rare-breed german shepherds, 2 males which we bred while owning dobermans. We did show and champion the GSD's. The dobermans were females, very smart, easily & well trained in obedience. Both breeds displayed significant prey drive, killing raccoons (dobe), all manner of groundhogs & rabbits (GSD's) an occasional treed raccoon (GSD ) and a Pea hen(dobe). Here's one difference - the doberman went about her business quickly, killing the prey in 2 quick headshakes and then immediately dropped the animal and moved on. the GSD's would munch on the trophies. They were both loyal steadfast protectors, the males very wary of unfamiliar male visitors. All very devoted to family members, extended family that they knew and friends. We simply prefer the doberman mentality. I have not doubt that a good well bred dog from either breed would be very well suited to work and exhibit the requisite courage and drive & desire to play and please. We had Mals as neighbors, they possessed strong tracking drives and were bred to be used by the ATF. (Alittle high strung from my perspective. Quite barky.) We had dobermans first and they are our first love and favorite breed for their emotional connection to their owners and their sharp and keen observational instincts. Find a good dog from a good pedigree - you will get great temperament and loyalty.
 
#37 ·
I've never owned a pure bred GSD but I have always owned a mix of some sort for years. Before I got my first Doberman I have had 7 dogs before him all a GSD mix, mostly with Black Lab. When I was a few years old my mom got a rescue a lab/gsd mix and her name was Shadow. She followed my mom everywhere, why her name was shadow :) anyways as I got older and started to explore the world my mom would tell her to follow me and protect me and she would. I was never out of her sight.

I was just a little kid and didn't know any better but one day I just had enough of my bully picking on me so I told Shadow to get him and to my surprise she ran up to him and circled him while barking. He went to the neighbors house to cover. She didn't bite him or anything I just called he back and never told her to do that again. I really didn't think she would do it.

My mom always trained with her, one day my mom fell out of a boat and my mom couldn't swim, Shadow went out in the water and saved my moms life. Another time my parents had a friend living on the property for a couple of months and their friend heard a noise on top of his trailer and he went up to look and Shadow had climbed the ladder up to the roof. This was a ladder that was standing straight up.

She was an amazing do and the perfect balance of being affectionate and work drive so I guess you can say Shadow did have a off switch because of the lab in her. One day I plan on owning a pure bred GSD.

One more amazing story about Shadow is that when we moved to Alaska there were a lot of bears and dogs were are alarm if one was around. The dogs there are never on leash. So one day we are at fishing camp, meaning on the river not electricity or anything and we hear Shadow barking so we look out to see what she was barking at and it was a teenage bear roaming the front of our cabin. Shadow is outside chasing the brown bear away and as the bear is trotting off Shadow bites the bear in the rear end and the bear just takes off.

She was a loving protector :)
 
#38 ·
My GSD would be the ADD dog going for the butterfly :rolleyesww:
My dobe would be a private listening to the drill Sargent. She reads my mind, and its crazy, you can almost see the gears going in her head =) Shoot, when I was on the cane she was noticing when I needed help and did exactly what I needed without a word from me.
I'm researching malis as a possible future addition...the report of lack of affection/sense of humor does bug me a little. Good info, all around!
 
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