[Q734]

Hi all,

After having had one & having had friends with dobermans I'm very much a "there are dobermans & there are dogs" type person.
I'd love another doberman very much... funny tho a friend of ours found a loose malinois(in Detroit even) a few months ago & I just met him today.
What a beautiful dog! So smart & attentive, yet a bit serious? maybe not so much a sense of humor that the dobe has.
He is a leaner, not kissy, not shy.
After hanging out with him & watching him with his owners playing in the park I have to admit I fell in love with him. I looked them up healthwise they are much better off it seems.

Any thoughts on them in comparison to dobes? We went to a bench show a year ago & thought the single one we met(a female) seemed inordinately shy...yet in a pet shop a person walking theirs seemed very outgoing.
I told our friends my husband cannot see this dog until I get my dobe or we'll be arguing what comes first. (his aunt is heavy in tervurens-(too much hair)

I really doubt my loyalty is totally shaken, but I was so very impressed with this dog. He is very fixed on the husband between the couple.

I wonder this also, maybe a two part question. Have you ever noticed a tendency for some breeds to gravitate to certain genders? Or w/working breeds is the one most around the person they look toward most?
E.g. I've often seen on petfinder that many male dobes prefer women/females than men. (mine was this way also) Is that just a fluke?
I've only met one female dobe & she was still young, sweet & goofy(tho I was told she remained that way).
I was thinking of a female because losing my male was so awful I thought maybe a gender difference, plus the lighter weight of a female would help alleviate any comparisons in my head I might have.

 

[dobebug]

Hi all,

After having had one & having had friends with dobermans I'm very much a "there are dobermans & there are dogs" type person.
I'd love another doberman very much... funny tho a friend of ours found a loose malinois(in Detroit even) a few months ago & I just met him today.
What a beautiful dog! So smart & attentive, yet a bit serious? maybe not so much a sense of humor that the dobe has.
He is a leaner, not kissy, not shy.
After hanging out with him & watching him with his owners playing in the park I have to admit I fell in love with him. I looked them up healthwise they are much better off it seems.

Any thoughts on them in comparison to dobes? We went to a bench show a year ago & thought the single one we met(a female) seemed inordinately shy...yet in a pet shop a person walking theirs seemed very outgoing.
I told our friends my husband cannot see this dog until I get my dobe or we'll be arguing what comes first. (his aunt is heavy in tervurens-(too much hair)

I really doubt my loyalty is totally shaken, but I was so very impressed with this dog. He is very fixed on the husband between the couple.

I wonder this also, maybe a two part question. Have you ever noticed a tendency for some breeds to gravitate to certain genders? Or w/working breeds is the one most around the person they look toward most?
E.g. I've often seen on petfinder that many male dobes prefer women/females than men. (mine was this way also) Is that just a fluke?
I've only met one female dobe & she was still young, sweet & goofy(tho I was told she remained that way).
I was thinking of a female because losing my male was so awful I thought maybe a gender difference, plus the lighter weight of a female would help alleviate any comparisons in my head I might have.

Malinois are OK dogs--but even having had one of the herding breeds I'm not entirely crazy about them. They are very trainable and probably there are fewer health issues but I think that in some respects they are much more hard wired than Dobes. I've had other breeds and I may well have other breeds again but I don't think a Mal is a reasonable substitute for a Dobe--at least not for me. Given my sorts of preferences which include looks as well as temperament there are about 25 breeds I'd consider before a Mal--including a Tervuren--in spite of the hair. There seems to be a fairly huge variation in temperment by the way--everything from falling on the ground shy to pretty hard core aggressive. On a relative scale, Dobes tend to be a breed that has actually improved and solidified in temperament over the years.

As far as different breeds gravitating more to one sex than the other--I think that's a real crock! I think in all breeds the person in the family that does the most things with and for the dog is the going to be the dogs favorite person--why not--if you are a guy and your wife feeds the dog, grooms the dog, walks the dog, takes him to the vet, to parks and for rides in the car why wouldn't he think she was the best thing since hamburger? I don't think that makes any difference whether it's a working breed or a hound.

In terms of being fair to future dogs it's probably a good idea if you are replacing a well loved male to chose a dog as little like that dog as possible. You'll avoid making the kind of unpleasant comparisons which very likely aren't accurate anyway (you know--the ones that start out when the new puppy has knocked over the trash and strewed the kitchen with unsavory bits and pieces that you never wanted to see again--they all start out "Max would NEVER have done that!" Max or whatever his name was probably did all of those things and you've forgotten because he grew up, got manners and you don't remember the hellish days as a puppy when he did all those bad things too.

In retrospect I probably should have been looking for a red, blue or fawn bitch as the second dobe after my first, who was a black male--several black dogs got kind of short shrift from me because I had this image in my mind and the successors to the first dog didn't match it well enough.

 

[Q734]

Malinois are OK dogs--but even having had one of the herding breeds I'm not entirely crazy about them. They are very trainable and probably there are fewer health issues but I think that in some respects they are much more hard wired than Dobes. I've had other breeds and I may well have other breeds again but I don't think a Mal is a reasonable substitute for a Dobe--at least not for me. Given my sorts of preferences which include looks as well as temperament there are about 25 breeds I'd consider before a Mal--including a Tervuren--in spite of the hair. There seems to be a fairly huge variation in temperment by the way--everything from falling on the ground shy to pretty hard core aggressive. On a relative scale, Dobes tend to be a breed that has actually improved and solidified in temperament over the years.

Ah ok, well the female mal @the show we saw had her head way down while we were taking turns petting her, she was sitting & acting hunchback. I want to say she seemed to be almost shaking because it was such an odd impression for a working dog to give, (it was not cold in there)

I'm going to save this thread if push comes to shove~8D
Too bad we aren't into the hair or herding thing as we could if not get a tervuren from his aunt, be steered toward one. That is just way too much hair for me (I shed enough as it is LOL it's like we have a built in afghan).

As far as different breeds gravitating more to one sex than the other--I think that's a real crock! I think in all breeds the person in the family that does the most things with and for the dog is the going to be the dogs favorite person--why not--if you are a guy and your wife feeds the dog, grooms the dog, walks the dog, takes him to the vet, to parks and for rides in the car why wouldn't he think she was the best thing since hamburger? I don't think that makes any difference whether it's a working breed or a hound.

LOL, logically that does make sense....I'd have to pry to figure that one w/regard to them. My friend seems to imply that she does just as much for the dog, but her dh is the dog's favorite.

Do not older dogs get fixated? When we tried to save the wannabe-eating-our-girl's-face-off JRT mix he seemed to not give a rat about she or I, regardless that after we saw how domineering he was, had only her feed him when she was home, yet he LOVED my dh & any man that walked in the door, men who had never so much as given it a treat etc. Granted, we didn't have a chance to keep him that long but still.

In terms of being fair to future dogs it's probably a good idea if you are replacing a well loved male to chose a dog as little like that dog as possible. You'll avoid making the kind of unpleasant comparisons which very likely aren't accurate anyway (you know--the ones that start out when the new puppy has knocked over the trash and strewed the kitchen with unsavory bits and pieces that you never wanted to see again--they all start out "Max would NEVER have done that!" Max or whatever his name was probably did all of those things and you've forgotten because he grew up, got manners and you don't remember the hellish days as a puppy when he did all those bad things too.

LOL I did get my dog when he was older, and he was only guilty of things that were glaringly my fault, a hole in my shorts from a forgotten milkbone, an unpacked potato out of a grocery sack (crunch crunch crunch from the other room) but that was it, no overturned trash etc. I never had to crate him. I don't expect that.

I expect that a puppy would help add to the difference tho, the closest we are going to get to a 24/7 toddler @my age.
Any really good dog like this is like a good wine? you've a price to pay for the good part to happen, be it in time, money, both. That will be another difference, I'm in another world financially, something my 1st did not have benefit of.

Maybe it was a post Murrey made a while back that got me, how different dogs are even from the same litter & it's impossible to compare them, but you still get the core essence of the breed, which is what I'd like to experience again & for my girl to know.
I'll be happy if we don't get a sickly cubist-sporting dobe head with flews to the floor-- that wants to eat my girls face off. LOL

I would rescue but my girl's well being is paramount as well & the JRT experience humbled me, if a dobe were to do that, my head would be served @the inlaws.My mil is a dashsund nut...I'm *not*... No thank you to the "we've been here 5 minutes already & he's still barking @us" thing.

In retrospect I probably should have been looking for a red, blue or fawn bitch as the second dobe after my first, who was a black male--several black dogs got kind of short shrift from me because I had this image in my mind and the successors to the first dog didn't match it well enough.

So you started out with a black male too. That is a good observation, in our case with that formula we'd be searching for all the above too....ack but I'm imprinted on the blacks. Did you go out & get another black male dog?

Was it you that only had male dogs? I can't remember forgive me.
Somebody on here seemed to have a no bitches preference & I was wondering why.

Anyway thank you so much Bug for the great reply, I really appreciate it

ps. I still want to know what "downfaced" means~8D

 

[waiting]

I had a black mutt, who was and not forgetting the puppy days the easiest dog to train ever, not just our family but everyone commented on him his whole life till the end. I then got a black dobe male, there was no association of comparison for our family. The dobe was harder to train and did have some nasty habits of going in garbage etc. for personal items and they would be strewn all over. He was a handful and quite frankly I have had four dobes and they are work, sometimes I think because they are smart and because of there goofiness which I love they sometimes wander elsewhere in there head. Good nerves bad nerves same family us but not same breeders. I have loved them all some more than others. I think it is a personal decision, allot of people won't get a dobe not because there scared of them they don't like that they are high maintenance and can be high energy and sometimes sharp. I love the breed but I feel sometimes some dobe lovers are not honest with the breeds faults, because we are conditioned to protect them from the negative ignorant people that slam them ALL into one category. Lets be honest there are some not nice dobes out there just like other breeds. I have had four as I said but now that I am getting up there in age, my next dog will not be a dobe, in fairness to the dobe puppy and myself, my husband and I agree we will not be without a dog but not the high level needs and work of a dobie. I don't know allot about the Malinois just like dobes I am sure there are sharp and soft, nervous and confident. Which as always brings into play research a good breeder and then nature does and will always throw there cents into the pot. Good luck enjoy what ever breed you decide on and enjoy your new friend.

 

[Luvbirds]

As a first time Dobie owner I agree that they are a lot of WORK. If you bring another Dobie into your life you are getting a full time toddler, for the next decade or so. Other breeds aren't so needy, I don't think that any from the herding breeds fit into that category though, the few I know need more exersize then even Petey! Petey wants to be with our family 24/7. He gets bored very easily and then is looking for stimulation, and not in a good way! I know part of this is him being a puppy, but I can tell it is the breed too and its high intellegence that makes them need lots of exersize and mental stimulation. I am also getting older and Petey may be the only Dobie I ever own (God willing he gets a long Dobie life),next I will go for a smaller less active dog that travels well. I am at a point in life that I have the time and energy to meet Petey's needs, so he is a perfect fit for me.

Do your breed research....and if it is another Dobie you want....go for it. I waited 23 years to get my first purebred Doberman and it was well worth the wait. I am not sorry about having owned any of my prior pups, they all came into my life at the right times, and left their paw-prints on my heart forever.

Good luck.

Carol

 

[doberkim]

Maybe murreydobe can comment (since she is the only one on this board that has actually has a mal - oh, also backinblack's friend has her male she just imported) - but i think they are a lot more to handle than dobes - many of them are very high drive, require a lot more exercise, and yes, can be a little less of a "people" dog than dobes. ive met many mals that are a little shy and very sharp, not necessarily poor breeding but again they were never meant to be big social party dogs.

 

[natdobe]

I agree with doberkim. I have read the same things about Mal's that she said. I love how social my dobe is. She LOVES people, but she loves my husband and me the best. She loves being involved in whatever we're doing, whether it's lounging around or going to the park. She's always in whatever room we're in, even the bathroom. She loves having company also. She starts jumping and prancing around when anybody comes over, like she's saying "Look at me, you did come over to see and play with me, right?" They are so goofy, humorous, and loving.

 

[Murreydobe]

Maybe murreydobe can comment (since she is the only one on this board that has actually has a mal - oh, also backinblack's friend has her male she just imported) - but i think they are a lot more to handle than dobes - many of them are very high drive, require a lot more exercise, and yes, can be a little less of a "people" dog than dobes. ive met many mals that are a little shy and very sharp, not necessarily poor breeding but again they were never meant to be big social party dogs.

The Mals I've personally known would be a complete and total disaster in MOST pet homes in this country..that's way more dog than most people could deal with, or WANT to deal with. I'd never recommend one for anyone who didn't have YEARS of training experience, STRONG leadership skills and knew for a fact they were going to commit and pursue training of some kind for the dog on an ongoing basis. Yeah, I know..I pretty much say the same thing about dobermans-but with malinois, I think the skills and experience levels of the owners has to be far higher. These dogs were never bred to be pets..they can be good companions, but only in very, very few homes.

This is how much prey drive my mal bitch had..*any* rhythmic movement or sound would put her into drive...for example, dribbling a basketball, left unchecked, she'd go wild if someone was doing that anywhere near her. We wound up with three sets of fences separating her from the horses and donkey. And yes, she was busy. While she had an off switch, she packed A LOT of living into each day.

On the plus side, I'd say hands down, she was the most intelligent and trainable dog I've ever been around. She was one of the two most stable dogs I've ever seen.

I've known Mals that were very social and outgoing, others that were aloof. Tabou (my Mal bitch) had the WORST possible upbringing any dog could possibly have for the first six months of her life..she lived in a 5x5 kennel run with 4 male littermates. The only human contact they had was when the breeder (and I use that term lightly) would either toss some food in (and not a great deal of that at any one time), or pound on the top of the kennel run to shut them up. That's it...virtually NO socialization to either humans or the world at large, she was darned close to a wild dog state. She should have been ruined...99% of the dogs in the world would have been unable to be salvaged after that.

Some friends of mine (ring sport trainers)rescued her, and I wound up with her. At the time, I was told the best we could hope for was that she'd learn to tolerate the presence of other humans, but she'd more than likely always be a one person dog.

How far Tabou came really was a tribute to her genetics; she was a little miracle dog. Within a year, she was pretty outgoing, doing FAR more than just tolerating the presence of others. She actually became a bit of a party animal, and had lots of human friends.

There *are* sharp/shy Malinois out there. But I think that's pretty understandable-when you breed for drives that high, you're going to have misfires when the drives aren't balanced, and those misfires can be serious. The people I personally knew would cull dogs like that-and I can't say I disagree with it in that situation-as I said, these dogs have never been bred to be pets, and a malinois with a poor temperament would make the WORST kind of pet.

But a malinois with a correct temperament-if you're into training dogs, they're pretty much state of the art. But you don't give an enzo ferrari to someone who not only hasn't learned to drive a car yet, but still has training wheels on their bike.

 

[Murreydobe]

ps. I still want to know what "downfaced" means~8D

In the ideal, the muzzle is parallel to the top skull, with both being level. In a down faced dog, the plane of the muzzle slants downward.

 

[Q734]

As a first time Dobie owner I agree that they are a lot of WORK. If you bring another Dobie into your life you are getting a full time toddler, for the next decade or so.

Hmm this is what throws me and causes me to wonder where my dog fit into the dobe spectrum. He was easy peasy with the only exception being the normal dominance toward other dogs trait, which he had full on.

He was a 50 lb stick with heartworms when I found him, so maybe that was a factor? :confused2 After healing he did have his active moments where he would do zoomies & tear across the yard.

I'm not ready for a slug dog tho that lays around all day.

 

[Q734]

Oy must learn to c/p in word before losing another post....

The Mals I've personally known would be a complete and total disaster in MOST pet homes in this country..that's way more dog than most people could deal with, or WANT to deal with. I'd never recommend one for anyone who didn't have YEARS of training experience, STRONG leadership skills and knew for a fact they were going to commit and pursue training of some kind for the dog on an ongoing basis. Yeah, I know..I pretty much say the same thing about dobermans-but with malinois, I think the skills and experience levels of the owners has to be far higher. These dogs were never bred to be pets..they can be good companions, but only in very, very few homes.

I think they must have lucked out on this dog then.
Before they decided to keep him she sent me the email w/his pic & were still in the process of trying to locate its owner(no chip) but were contacted by Malinois people who offered to take him.

Upon our visit, knocking on the door he was barking furiously, once in he was immediately quiet & polite.

He did not strike me as spastic/hyper, which is sort of how I'm interpreting the high energy. He waited until we got to the park to "turn it on". They're no dog experts tho, but have mentioned a desire to find an agility class.
I think it'd be such a blast to see him do something like that, as he seems hungry to want to learn the next thing, like *really* focused during play.

This is how much prey drive my mal bitch had..*any* rhythmic movement or sound would put her into drive...for example, dribbling a basketball, left unchecked, she'd go wild if someone was doing that anywhere near her. We wound up with three sets of fences separating her from the horses and donkey. And yes, she was busy. While she had an off switch, she packed A LOT of living into each day.

Yikes...a basketball?
Well they do have cats and he doesn't bother them. We also happened to pass a basketball court w/kids playing & he seemed oblivious to anything but the ball my friends were carrying for fetching.

I've known Mals that were very social and outgoing, others that were aloof. Tabou (my Mal bitch) had the WORST possible upbringing any dog could possibly have for the first six months of her life..she lived in a 5x5 kennel run with 4 male littermates. The only human contact they had was when the breeder (and I use that term lightly) would either toss some food in (and not a great deal of that at any one time), or pound on the top of the kennel run to shut them up. That's it...virtually NO socialization to either humans or the world at large, she was darned close to a wild dog state. She should have been ruined...99% of the dogs in the world would have been unable to be salvaged after that. How far Tabou came really was a tribute to her genetics; she was a little miracle dog. Within a year, she was pretty outgoing, doing FAR more than just tolerating the presence of others. She actually became a bit of a party animal, and had lots of human friends.

There *are* sharp/shy Malinois out there. But I think that's pretty understandable-when you breed for drives that high, you're going to have misfires when the drives aren't balanced, and those misfires can be serious. The people I personally knew would cull dogs like that-and I can't say I disagree with it in that situation-as I said, these dogs have never been bred to be pets, and a malinois with a poor temperament would make the WORST kind of pet. .

Wow, is that a common practice, culling? At what age on puppies/dogs do they decide that?

But a malinois with a correct temperament-if you're into training dogs, they're pretty much state of the art. But you don't give an enzo ferrari to someone who not only hasn't learned to drive a car yet, but still has training wheels on their bike.

LOL I do think they found a gem, he is estimated to be around a year 1/2 btw.

 

[BackInBlack]

I have only been around a handful of Mal's, but I would have to agree that in MOST situations they don’t make great pets. The 3 that I have spent the most time around, are all owned by one person. They are all 3 great dogs, all 3 excellent working dogs, and all 3 TOTALLY different ends of the spectrum when it comes to personality. They are very smart dogs, and learn very easily. Be that good or bad. The female.......I swear you can SEE that dog thinking.

I can’t really say "as a breed" I know much about them, but the ones I have spent time around are very loyal to one person. One of them, it literally took the dog a year before I could come near the crate without her acting like she was going to eat me. Last time I saw her, I walked in the door and she jumped up on me, put her paws on my chest and licked me in the face....but it took a SOLID YEAR of being around her almost every day for her to trust me.

They are EXTREMELY high energy (and I cannot stress that enough) and agree that if you did not KNOW 100% that you were going to do some sort of training with the dog (and I don’t mean puppy classes) I don't think I would even consider one. I don’t think they would be happy in a "pet" home. Not the ones I have seen anyway.

 

[alwayshadpets]

I have seen a lot in some of the classes I go to. I`ll try and ask the instructors about them. Some of these pups, dogs, are being trained by students that are being trained as professional dog trainers.I suspect most of these will go on for police work, security, etc. The ones I have seen are very focused and well-behaved.

 

[alwayshadpets]

I did ask the instructor at class as she did have one. She loved her mal. She did say that they are very high energy. Training is a must to keep this energy in check. Probably not a good choice for a first time dog owner. Lot of people who do schutzhund like this breed. If raised with kids she said they were fine.

 

[MIA]

I had a Belgian Shepherd and talk about intense! She was a retired working dog, retired my butt! At 10 she was still wired for sound!!! LOL She got more work than my dobe now! ROFL. Let's put it this way, the night she passed away (in her sleep) she was at the park playing ball for three hours!!!!! Very smart, very hard working and a lot of dog. The one thing I like better about her is she was more independent, ie I could go to the bathroom alone! LOL

 

[K9Jarko]

I have three Malinois...probably the one's that BIB were talking about. Yup, all three have different personalities and drives. My now retired Police K-9 (Malinois - 7 years old) is the most level-headed dog I have ever met...of any breed. He could be loving on grade school kids one minute and chasing down and apprehending the bad guy the next. My female (22 months next week) is the most dominant dog I have ever trained, and I've trained some strong dogs over the years, but she is also the most intelligent dog I've ever had the pleasure of working...sometimes it is hard keeping one up on her as knowledge is suppose to flow down the leash not up My young mal (yup, the import) will turn 5 months old on the 28th and already knows down/down in motion, sit/sit in motion and stand - personality wise he is a lover and craves attention - we are training for ring sports and maybe SchH later. All three have one thing in common, as do 99.9% of Mals - ENERGY. They just keep going....and going....and well you get the idea. They, along with my Rotty (who has always had an off switch), live freely in the house with us.....but it took alot of work.

I really like Mals, obviously, but I would not and do not recommend them for anyone that is looking for a "pet". Mals are not actually the best dogs for Schutzhund either - although they can and do very well (2007 FMBB World Champion and AWDF Champion Handler/Trainer/Breeder Ivan Balabanov is living proof) of it. Tracking is usually the Mals downfall in Schutzhund - they wanta do everything fast...which is not what the judges like to see in Schutzhund KNPV, French Ring and Mondio Ring are all sports where you will really see a Malinois excel.......not to shabby for a herding dog

I have had many people approach me about where they can get a Malinois from - I am pretty straight up with people and tell them like it is....in general they do not make good house "pets" .....not unlike all dogs they need a job... but unlike most dogs they need to do this job for hours on end.

 

[Murreydobe]

My female (22 months next week) is the most dominant dog I have ever trained, and I've trained some strong dogs over the years, but she is also the most intelligent dog I've ever had the pleasure of working...sometimes it is hard keeping one up on her as knowledge is suppose to flow down the leash not up QUOTE]

LOL, isn't that the truth! So many times Tabou would look at me like *I* was the slow one.

I'm pretty good at not getting sucked into the games dogs try to play with their owners. But I swear, if I wasn't totally centered and "on" in every interaction with Tabou, she could (and would) make a total butt out of me in 30 seconds or less.