I can blow them up if you want???Murreydobe said:
Doberman Conformation
Inspired by Elly's very educational history thread, I thought we could continue with the educational theme 
Not to mention if I'm considering getting into showing I need to learn about this stuff (so this is a little self serving ). I know a number of you show so you will be able to share your knowledge and experience with the rest of us.
Below is a copy of the doberman standard from www.dpca.org What I'm hoping for is that following the standard we could post pics of actual show dogs and comment on those dogs' conformation. This such as this dog has a very nice neck, but his head is too so and so, while this other dog has a perfect head, but his body looks too long.. that sort of stuff. That way us noobs can start to learn visually what it takes to have a good conformation show dog.
Official AKC Standard of the Doberman Pinscher
(Adopted February 6, 1982)
* GENERAL APPEARANCE
* The appearance is that of a dog of medium size, with a body that is square. Compactly built, muscular and powerful, for great endurance and speed. Elegant in appearance, of proud carriage, reflecting great nobility and temperament. Energetic, watchful, determined, alert, fearless, loyal and obedient.
SIZE, PROPORTION, SUBSTANCE
* Height at the withers: Dogs 26 to 28 inches, ideal about 27 1/2 inches; Bitches 24 to 26 inches, ideal about 25 1/2 inches. The height, measured vertically from the ground to the highest point of the withers, equaling the length measured horizontally from the forechest to the rear projection of the upper thigh. Length of head, neck and legs in proportion to length and depth of body.
HEAD
* Long and dry, resembling a blunt wedge in both frontal and profile views. When seen from the front, the head widens gradually toward the base of the ears in a practically unbroken line. Eyes almond shaped, moderately deep set, with vigorous, energetic expression. Iris, of uniform color, ranging from medium to darkest brown in black dogs; in reds, blues, and fawns the color of the iris blends with that of the markings, the darkest shade being preferable in every case. Ears normally cropped and carried erect. The upper attachment of the ear, when held erect, is on a level with the top of the skull.
* Top of skull flat, turning with slight stop to bridge of muzzle, with muzzle line extending parallel to top line of skull. Cheeks flat and muscular. Nose solid black on black dogs, dark brown on red ones, dark gray on blue ones, dark tan on fawns. Lips lying close to jaws. Jaws full and powerful, well filled under the eyes.
* Teeth strongly developed and white. Lower incisors upright and touching inside of upper incisors true scissors bite. 42 correctly placed teeth, 22 in the lower, 20 in the upper jaw. Distemper teeth shall not be penalized. Disqualifying Faults: Overshot more than 3/16 of an inch. Undershot more than 1/8 of an inch. Four or more missing teeth.
NECK, TOPLINE, BODY
* Neck proudly carried, well muscled and dry. Well arched, with nape of neck widening gradually toward body. Length of neck proportioned to body and head. Withers pronounced and forming the highest point of the body. Back short, firm, of sufficient width, and muscular at the loins, extending in a straight line from withers to the slightly rounded croup.
* Chest broad with forechest well defined. Ribs well sprung from the spine, but flattened in lower end to permit elbow clearance. Brisket reaching deep to the elbow. Belly well tucked up, extending in a curved line from the brisket. Loins wide and muscled. Hips broad and in proportion to body, breadth of hips being approximately equal to breadth of body at rib cage and shoulders. Tail docked at approximately second joint, appears to be a continuation of the spine, and is carried only slightly above the horizontal when the dog is alert.
FOREQUARTERS
* Shoulder Blade sloping forward and downward at a 45-degree angle to the ground meets the upper arm at an angle of 90 degrees. Length of shoulder blade and upper arm are equal. Height from elbow to withers approximately equals height from ground to elbow. Legs seen from front and side, perfectly straight and parallel to each other from elbow to pastern; muscled and sinewy, with heavy bone. In normal pose and when gaiting, the elbows lie close to the brisket. Pasterns firm and almost perpendicular to the ground. Dewclaws may be removed. Feet well arched, compact, and catlike, turning neither in nor out.
HINDQUARTERS
* The angulation of the hindquarters balances that of the forequarters. Hip Bone falls away from spinal column at an angle of about 30 degrees, producing a slightly rounded, well filled-out croup. Upper Shanks at right angles to the hip bones, are long, wide, and well muscled on both sides of thigh, with clearly defined stifles. Upper and lower shanks are of equal length. While the dog is at rest, hock to heel is perpendicular to the ground. Viewed from the rear, the legs are straight, parallel to each other, and wide enough apart to fit in with a properly built body. Dewclaws, if any, are generally removed. Cat feet as on front legs, turning neither in nor out.
COAT
* Smooth-haired, short, hard, thick and close lying. Invisible gray undercoat on neck permissible.
* Color and Markings
* Allowed Colors: Black, red, blue, and fawn (Isabella). Markings : Rust, sharply defined, appearing above each eye and on muzzle, throat and forechest, on all legs and feet, and below tail. White patch on chest, not exceeding 1/2 square inch, permissible. Disqualifying Fault : Dogs not of an allowed color.
GAIT
* Free, balanced and vigorous, with good reach in the forequarters and good driving power in the hindquarters. When trotting, there is strong rear-action drive. Each rear leg moves in line with the foreleg on the same side. Rear and front legs are thrown neither in nor out. Back remains strong and firm. When moving at a fast trot, a properly built dog will single-track.
TEMPERAMENT
* Energetic, watchful, determined alert, fearless, loyal and obedient. The judge shall dismiss from the ring any shy or vicious Doberman.
* Shyness: A dog shall be judged fundamentally shy if, refusing to stand for examination, it shrinks away from the judge; if it fears an approach from the rear; if it shies at sudden and unusual noises to a marked degree.
* Viciousness: A dog that attacks or attempts to attack either the judge or its handier, is definitely vicious. An aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs shall not be deemed viciousness.
FAULTS
* The foregoing description is that of the ideal Doberman Pinscher. Any deviation from the above described dog must be penalized to the extent of the deviation.
DISQUALIFICATIONS
* Overshot more than 3/16 of an inch, undershot more than 1/8 of an inch. Four or more missing teeth. Dogs not of an allowed color.
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Not to mention if I'm considering getting into showing I need to learn about this stuff (so this is a little self serving ). I know a number of you show so you will be able to share your knowledge and experience with the rest of us. Below is a copy of the doberman standard from www.dpca.org What I'm hoping for is that following the standard we could post pics of actual show dogs and comment on those dogs' conformation. This such as this dog has a very nice neck, but his head is too so and so, while this other dog has a perfect head, but his body looks too long.. that sort of stuff. That way us noobs can start to learn visually what it takes to have a good conformation show dog.
Official AKC Standard of the Doberman Pinscher
(Adopted February 6, 1982)
* GENERAL APPEARANCE
* The appearance is that of a dog of medium size, with a body that is square. Compactly built, muscular and powerful, for great endurance and speed. Elegant in appearance, of proud carriage, reflecting great nobility and temperament. Energetic, watchful, determined, alert, fearless, loyal and obedient.
SIZE, PROPORTION, SUBSTANCE
* Height at the withers: Dogs 26 to 28 inches, ideal about 27 1/2 inches; Bitches 24 to 26 inches, ideal about 25 1/2 inches. The height, measured vertically from the ground to the highest point of the withers, equaling the length measured horizontally from the forechest to the rear projection of the upper thigh. Length of head, neck and legs in proportion to length and depth of body.
HEAD
* Long and dry, resembling a blunt wedge in both frontal and profile views. When seen from the front, the head widens gradually toward the base of the ears in a practically unbroken line. Eyes almond shaped, moderately deep set, with vigorous, energetic expression. Iris, of uniform color, ranging from medium to darkest brown in black dogs; in reds, blues, and fawns the color of the iris blends with that of the markings, the darkest shade being preferable in every case. Ears normally cropped and carried erect. The upper attachment of the ear, when held erect, is on a level with the top of the skull.
* Top of skull flat, turning with slight stop to bridge of muzzle, with muzzle line extending parallel to top line of skull. Cheeks flat and muscular. Nose solid black on black dogs, dark brown on red ones, dark gray on blue ones, dark tan on fawns. Lips lying close to jaws. Jaws full and powerful, well filled under the eyes.
* Teeth strongly developed and white. Lower incisors upright and touching inside of upper incisors true scissors bite. 42 correctly placed teeth, 22 in the lower, 20 in the upper jaw. Distemper teeth shall not be penalized. Disqualifying Faults: Overshot more than 3/16 of an inch. Undershot more than 1/8 of an inch. Four or more missing teeth.
NECK, TOPLINE, BODY
* Neck proudly carried, well muscled and dry. Well arched, with nape of neck widening gradually toward body. Length of neck proportioned to body and head. Withers pronounced and forming the highest point of the body. Back short, firm, of sufficient width, and muscular at the loins, extending in a straight line from withers to the slightly rounded croup.
* Chest broad with forechest well defined. Ribs well sprung from the spine, but flattened in lower end to permit elbow clearance. Brisket reaching deep to the elbow. Belly well tucked up, extending in a curved line from the brisket. Loins wide and muscled. Hips broad and in proportion to body, breadth of hips being approximately equal to breadth of body at rib cage and shoulders. Tail docked at approximately second joint, appears to be a continuation of the spine, and is carried only slightly above the horizontal when the dog is alert.
FOREQUARTERS
* Shoulder Blade sloping forward and downward at a 45-degree angle to the ground meets the upper arm at an angle of 90 degrees. Length of shoulder blade and upper arm are equal. Height from elbow to withers approximately equals height from ground to elbow. Legs seen from front and side, perfectly straight and parallel to each other from elbow to pastern; muscled and sinewy, with heavy bone. In normal pose and when gaiting, the elbows lie close to the brisket. Pasterns firm and almost perpendicular to the ground. Dewclaws may be removed. Feet well arched, compact, and catlike, turning neither in nor out.
HINDQUARTERS
* The angulation of the hindquarters balances that of the forequarters. Hip Bone falls away from spinal column at an angle of about 30 degrees, producing a slightly rounded, well filled-out croup. Upper Shanks at right angles to the hip bones, are long, wide, and well muscled on both sides of thigh, with clearly defined stifles. Upper and lower shanks are of equal length. While the dog is at rest, hock to heel is perpendicular to the ground. Viewed from the rear, the legs are straight, parallel to each other, and wide enough apart to fit in with a properly built body. Dewclaws, if any, are generally removed. Cat feet as on front legs, turning neither in nor out.
COAT
* Smooth-haired, short, hard, thick and close lying. Invisible gray undercoat on neck permissible.
* Color and Markings
* Allowed Colors: Black, red, blue, and fawn (Isabella). Markings : Rust, sharply defined, appearing above each eye and on muzzle, throat and forechest, on all legs and feet, and below tail. White patch on chest, not exceeding 1/2 square inch, permissible. Disqualifying Fault : Dogs not of an allowed color.
GAIT
* Free, balanced and vigorous, with good reach in the forequarters and good driving power in the hindquarters. When trotting, there is strong rear-action drive. Each rear leg moves in line with the foreleg on the same side. Rear and front legs are thrown neither in nor out. Back remains strong and firm. When moving at a fast trot, a properly built dog will single-track.
TEMPERAMENT
* Energetic, watchful, determined alert, fearless, loyal and obedient. The judge shall dismiss from the ring any shy or vicious Doberman.
* Shyness: A dog shall be judged fundamentally shy if, refusing to stand for examination, it shrinks away from the judge; if it fears an approach from the rear; if it shies at sudden and unusual noises to a marked degree.
* Viciousness: A dog that attacks or attempts to attack either the judge or its handier, is definitely vicious. An aggressive or belligerent attitude towards other dogs shall not be deemed viciousness.
FAULTS
* The foregoing description is that of the ideal Doberman Pinscher. Any deviation from the above described dog must be penalized to the extent of the deviation.
DISQUALIFICATIONS
* Overshot more than 3/16 of an inch, undershot more than 1/8 of an inch. Four or more missing teeth. Dogs not of an allowed color.
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There ya go....
Look at that face! Wonderful expression and really, really nicely shaped dark eyes.Blackdog said:Here's my other Weigland photo - this one was grandma Carmen's pic
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BIB, I'll take a go at rommel I don't know much of anything lol. Judging from the pictures it seems his body is long...but that is probably from his young age...and still filling out..and growing in height. or maybe his chest is just not as deep causing him to appear longer. The picture of him moving is real nice I think though! and to my untrained eye I think he has a real nice face...
I don't know much of anything lol. Judging from the pictures it seems his body is long...but that is probably from his young age...and still filling out..and growing in height. or maybe his chest is just not as deep causing him to appear longer. The picture of him moving is real nice I think though! and to my untrained eye I think he has a real nice face...
Valkyrie
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Yeah, I think he still has some growth in height, and I know he will fill out some as he gets older. He is 8 months now. He really does have a pretty long body though. And like Kim said, he has a very narrow face and a long nose. Thats another reason I wanted him to have longer ears. He has always had a long narrow nose. Thank you though, I think he is beautiful no matter whatLapDog said:BIB, I'll take a go at rommel
It's just kind of fun to have people who really know what they are looking at tell you about your dog. Good or bad
yeah I think the long ears work wonderfully on him He has that Doberman Boy look to him
He has that Doberman Boy look to him
Blackdog & Murreydobe
You both have beautiful dogs, I sure hope my little guy can turn out half as nice as them. Now I need to go get some pics of Chase.
You both have beautiful dogs, I sure hope my little guy can turn out half as nice as them
. Now I need to go get some pics of Chase.
See the flews hanging down in the red circle? That's lippy. It's fairly typical on males. Cy's not as bad as some, but you always had to tuck his flews in when he showed.TracyJo said:
Dews and tails aren't a dq, like natural ears aren't a dq, but it's going to have to be an almost perfect dog everywhere else to get judges not to seriously penalize the dog for it. There have been a couple natural earred dogs finish in the states, but none that I know of with tails. I don't know about dew claws.
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I'll see what I can do with pictures. First is Louise at 15 months.......now she HAS a gay tail.......very typical of what her sire has produced. No dog is perfect. I'd like better markings in the chest (can't see in these pics), and pasturns with just a little less slope. Her hiney still needs some muscle but it willl come.
She has a nice head, nice arch to her neck, good topline, nice brisket, good tuck up, nice angles front and rear (not perfect). She is nice and square. Probably her most outstanding feature are her really nice cat feet. Oh, and when she is being good for her handler, she moves great.
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Ok, now here she is at 12 months........yes stacking for a cupcake on her birthday. You can see that the pro does a better job and my then 9 year old daughter took the picture.
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She has a nice head, nice arch to her neck, good topline, nice brisket, good tuck up, nice angles front and rear (not perfect). She is nice and square. Probably her most outstanding feature are her really nice cat feet. Oh, and when she is being good for her handler, she moves great.
Ok, now here she is at 12 months........yes stacking for a cupcake on her birthday. You can see that the pro does a better job and my then 9 year old daughter took the picture.
2
Now Velma......I don't have a stacked picture of her since she retired from the breed ring - too bad as she actually is better as a 3 year old than she was as a 2 year old. Velma's good points are that she has "flash" and the drive that screams "look at me", great markings, a decent rear, a decent topline. Faulty too straight front with too much space between her elbow and side, a brisket that was just shy of deep enough, and a doggy down faced head with lots of flew (I love her expressive head but it is not correct). This is the one I spayed. If she had been as good as she thought she was, she would be top 20 just on attitude alone
This picture is at 17 months - so fairly close in age to the one of Louise at 15 months. Velma is Louise's aunt - 25% of their pedigree is the same.
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Here she is at about 26 months. I retired her one month later.
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This picture is at 17 months - so fairly close in age to the one of Louise at 15 months. Velma is Louise's aunt - 25% of their pedigree is the same.
Here she is at about 26 months. I retired her one month later.
by Murreydobe:
"But this really is the best advice for someone who really wants to learn about structure. Find a competent mentor, and sit ringside with them during the judging. It's always better to look at living dogs. And movement is the most difficult thing of all to learn..you need to look at lots and lots of dogs moving,and it helps when they're all being gaited through the same patterns."
Key word is "competent" Personally, everyone has differing opinions on what they like or don't like, so try and get to know as many people ringside you can. My suggestion would be to Listen listen listen and hear what different people are saying.
If it's built right it will move right. All these pictures are great, but you have to remember there are plenty of dogs that stack very nicely and fall apart when they move...and a great pro-handler can hide a multitude of sins
I can't seem to post my picture. Do they need to be on the web or can they be on our computer?
"But this really is the best advice for someone who really wants to learn about structure. Find a competent mentor, and sit ringside with them during the judging. It's always better to look at living dogs. And movement is the most difficult thing of all to learn..you need to look at lots and lots of dogs moving,and it helps when they're all being gaited through the same patterns."
Key word is "competent"
Personally, everyone has differing opinions on what they like or don't like, so try and get to know as many people ringside you can. My suggestion would be to Listen listen listen and hear what different people are saying. If it's built right it will move right. All these pictures are great, but you have to remember there are plenty of dogs that stack very nicely and fall apart when they move...and a great pro-handler can hide a multitude of sins
I can't seem to post my picture. Do they need to be on the web or can they be on our computer?
holly smokes, do I have some catching up to do in this thread!!! I'm glad it exploded like this
Gatehouse, you bet I'm comming to that show in Barrie! But that feels like weeks and weeks away!
The pics need to be on the net, you then simply post the link to the pic. You need to get your pics off your computer on the net first. There are tons of picture hosting sites out there, photobucket, etc.
Gatehouse, you bet I'm comming to that show in Barrie! But that feels like weeks and weeks away!
The pics need to be on the net, you then simply post the link to the pic. You need to get your pics off your computer on the net first. There are tons of picture hosting sites out there, photobucket, etc.
41 - 60 of 160 Posts
