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Discussion Starter #1
:boldblue:Hi,

Can some one provide me info on Doberman Bred lines.
I am aware of EUROPEAn,American ,Argentinian and German lines..

I can tell the difference between European line from the rest...But am not sure on the exact specifics(top line,angulation,muzzle,head,neck etc) among the rest of the lines..

If anyone has pics or reading material on this...then please do share.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi Julie,

If that is the case i guess there would be only The FCI standard doberman(European line in term) and the AKC standard Doberman(American line in term)...Then what about the Argentinian line....

Does that mean there is only 2 distinct lines in Dobermans....

I would say the one you have on the Pic above is an American Bred Doberman..they have the sharper face compared to European lines...there are other distinctions too in angulation and neck but i am not too clear to have a say on that

European Line are ore like:
CH Maxim di Altobello

Argentinian line:

http://www.akidosan.com/alex.html

I am just trying to learn here..SO please share in your comment if i am wrong....
 

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Sea Hag
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Hi Julie,

If that is the case i guess there would be only The FCI standard doberman(European line in term) and the AKC standard Doberman(American line in term)...Then what about the Argentinian line....

Does that mean there is only 2 distinct lines in Dobermans....

I would say the one you have on the Pic above is an American Bred Doberman..they have the sharper face compared to European lines...there are other distinctions too in angulation and neck but i am not too clear to have a say on that

European Line are ore like:
CH Maxim di Altobello

Argentinian line:

Alex

I am just trying to learn here..SO please share in your comment if i am wrong....
Ch. Alex de Akido San was sired by an American dog. The bottom side of his pedigree is double Ch. Nello's Lex Luthor, who has strong ties to American lines-Lex had something like 13 crosses back to Ch. Marienburg's Sun Hawk, an American dog.

If I'm not mistaken, Argentina is an FCI country.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
But then i guess its because Argentinian Lines were probably a genetic evolution from the American lines..........

or do you think that there is no difference In between American and Argetinian...

I have this confusion as a lot aof people back in my home country say it as distinct lines....
 

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Sea Hag
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But then i guess its because Argentinian Lines were probably a genetic evolution from the American lines..........

or do you think that there is no difference In between American and Argetinian...

I have this confusion as a lot aof people back in my home country say it as distinct lines....
Well..there are a lot of American dogs used in South American breeding programs (the sire of Alex de Akido San being a good example), a lot of South American dogs being used in American breeding programs. Neither can be considered an isolated, closed breeding population, IMO.
 

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First of all, I think it would be more appropriate to use the word "type" as opposed to line when referring to this. To me a line refers to specific lines of dogs from a kennel, when I think of Euro vs NA I think of types that involve numerous different lines.

Second of all, you are doing a LOT of generalizing. I'm not too familiar with the SA dogs so won't comment on that, but your examples of Euro vs NA are extreme examples of both types. There are plenty of dogs in the middle that look like they could fit into either Euro or NA type. I actually don't like either of your examples, the NA looks like the stereotypical greyhound body type and the Euro looks like the stereo typical bulky almost rott like body (and head!), both of which I think are wrong for the breed, but let's not open that can of worms.

I'm not sure what the purpose of what you're doing is, but I wouldn't rely solely on these stereotypical identifiers to reliably name the dog's type.
 

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Sea Hag
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I don't like a tendency to overfeed dogs to make them look stronger. It's common for NA and Europe these days.
I agree that excess weight on a dog doesn't make them look stronger or more muscular, it just makes them look fat. I think you see that done to more of an extreme with European dogs.

I gave you an example of an American champion doberman's show weight vs. what I consider their optimum weight the other day-the difference is no more than 3 lbs. I don't exactly consider that overfeeding.
 

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this is my take on the lines

pls comment
Do not use images without the owners permission. The photo you used to represent the stacked photo of an American doberman is MY bitch Cher and the photo was used without permission. Furthermore, if you want to attempt some sort of relevant representation you need to show dogs of the same age and also the same sex. My bitch is only 5 months old in that image. Hardly an accurate comparison.
 

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Do not use images without the owners permission. The photo you used to represent the stacked photo of an American doberman is MY bitch Cher and the photo was used without permission. Furthermore, if you want to attempt some sort of relevant representation you need to show dogs of the same age and also the same sex. My bitch is only 5 months old in that image. Hardly an accurate comparison.
I was going to say that photo looked awfully familiar....and HAD to be a puppy.
 

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Each country seems to have a distinct type and every country believes their type is "the one". These dogs have evolved in their own country and become distinctive of a type produced there. I believe no type is right or wrong and a good dog can come from anywhere.

You might consider the type that appeals most to you then check the virtues of that type against the written standards of the FCI, AKC etc for the breed as a whole.
 

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I have to agree with Julies (julieW) observation in regards to ownership of dog photos.

I also would like to point out a few things--when making comparisons of photos of dogs--its VERY important to have the subjects positioned in a similar manner, compare the SAME age/sex against each other--NOT boy vs girl, or puppy vs adult. Otherwise whom ever proposes the comparison can sway the observations to support their position.

Over the years, Doug--when attending shows in Europe--has sought out dogs so that he can take photos from the same angle (hard profile--centered on the dog--not too far forward or from the rear. It has been our personal experience, as well as discussed with animal photographers, that a center hard profile of a dog gives a realistic view of the dog from an analytical stand point.:swing1:

Many people prefer a 3/4 view(US)--however that view can hide sins/faults as well as make a dog appear longer in body than what it is in real life.

I would also like to make the observation of the headshot used for the "american" doberman is not an American dog.

It is very hard to make GENERALIZED comparisons on a two dimensional photo for a three dimensional subject.:emo11:

Several years ago we were at a show in the UK, and found a breeder that had phenotype that had a strong resemblance to the South American Dogs and some US dogs. Yet these dogs were all british--NO continental/or American in the pedigree. Doug was impressed enough that he took a picture of the dog and included it in one of his articles in the Doberman magazines. Upon publication of the article, a british observer tried to claim the dog was not as dramatic as it appeared. Again the breeder -handler set the dog up for Doug to take the picture.

I find it interesting in how the same dogs used in the US and in South America produced different results in type & temperment. I have made the same observation in a couple of successful breeding programs in the US.

:kiss:

Jacque
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I would like to Apologize to Julie..for using the snap...There was no harm intentionally intended..all i wanted was a pic of something i would say is pure American breeding in my view..and i found that snap to be appropriate....and just used it without any second thoughts...to tell the truth i was lazy and didnt wanna google and look for another pic...that was more appropriate...

Please let it go..

and the only purpose of this forum was to understand or learn...I come from an asian country and its difficult to find or study a pure breeding from NA or Europe...

So I rely on the internet and the conclusions i come up becomes quiet vague and inaccurate...:emo11:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks to Dreamvalley and Kansadobe and all the others for sharing in....

i am no sure how to remove the attachment attached earlier in my post for comparison..so its still on..
 

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I would not worry so much on origin of the dobes but more to the health stats. Make sure any puppy you look at, both parents have been tested for vwd, cardio, OFA certs, etc. etc.
I lost my bitch this past May to liver disease. She was my heart dog and one month short of five years is TOO YOUNG to lose a dog to liver disease. Her pedigree is in dobequest---Bartop's Jubilee. LEARN WHAT'S BEHIND IN HEALTH ISSUES.
Good luck.
 

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Each country seems to have a distinct type and every country believes their type is "the one". These dogs have evolved in their own country and become distinctive of a type produced there. I believe no type is right or wrong and a good dog can come from anywhere.

You might consider the type that appeals most to you then check the virtues of that type against the written standards of the FCI, AKC etc for the breed as a whole.
Agreed pick the type you like But also the temperament you like and what you want the dog for.
 
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