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Bladerator
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We have been training our Dobe Blade since before he was 3 months using the Command Collar. Here is some of his progress. :nicejob:

Leave us feedback and comments!

:thanx:

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What's a command collar? I only watched a little bit of the video as my internet is playing up, I taught my pup the same thing (drop on recall) with a clicker, target and tug :D
 
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MOATS
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1)45-60 mins of training at a time? Try 5-10 minutes max, especially for a young puppy.

2)Training should be fun. I'm not seeing a lot of drive / enthusiasm in how your puppy works. What methods are you using to teach these behaviors? How are you rewarding?

3)If you're "starting something new" why would there be corrections, especially for a young puppy?
 

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Command collar / 3 Freedom Training Lines / 2 DVD's = $59.90
Don Sullivan's The Perfect Dog Training System | Thane USA

^^^^ What's so special or unique about the command collar ??
- doesn't look like a voice transmitter, or something...or am I missing something / the freedom training line, just looks like thin nylon cord

I sidewalk / road trained my personal puppy off-leach (I don't advise this for everyone)...and teach the words "stay" or "come", with 100% effectiveness.
Never did I use the "down" command, so I can always control the movement of my dobe / and avert any threat of danger.
- like I don't want my Amy laying in the middle of the road, if a car is passing by...when we are on a low traffic (low speed) street without sidewalks
http://www.dobermantalk.com/general...ontrolled-off-leash-walking-city-streets.html

Thanks for sharing your video, and Blade...very cute boy.
 

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It depends on what you want as an end goal. If you want a pet that will listen to you, and be a perfect gentleman, but without much exhuberence then this type of training may be appropriate for you.

It is the opposite to what I would be doing. I would not be using corrections on a puppy this young. I would be training 5-10 minutes maximum. I would not be using any distractions. I want a puppy to have a puppy life. I would not worry about running out into traffic because I would not have a dog loose where this could happen.

I want the end picture to be a dog with a high level of drive and enthusiasm. I want expression, expression, expression. This is impossible with the training in the video to achieve because this type of training will squash drive (heart/soul). You can already see it in the puppy.
 

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The website seems to hide what the product actually is? Am I right in saying its some sort of electronically activated pinch collar. Sorry if I'm mistaken.

If so, I don't like it. I had the down from a distance command sorted by about three months old, without the need for any special corrective collars or negative corrections..
 

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Command Collar ??
Doberman In Training VIDEO, at timeframe 2:41 minutes - gives a small reference, to the OP's dog collar on 3.5 month old pup Blade:
- it acts as a bite just like a mother would do to correct her pups / correction starts after 2:09 minute footage, by the looks of it
(for a little more push)
Doberman In Training - YouTube
 

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You do realize he is just 4 months? I don't mean to be harsh but I find the video very sad and I don't see a happy dog. Myself, I'm looking for much different things in training.

do you need to tire him out before training to get him to listen? or? I use that puppy energy in my training to get an exuberant dog with quick results.

I would NOT be putting that much pressure on a PUPPY.
 

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Here's my thoughts... I bet if you put this on facebook, or youtube and spread the link around, I bet your average person would think this is amazing... When you told that dog "down", he looked pretty terrified to me...

A few recommendations, if you don't want to shut your dobe down, would be to stop using corrections on such a young dog, and make the training more fun. Your dog looks so terrified to make a mistake, which isn't good. For a slight second you can see the way his head slinks, he's likely hoping he gets it right so he doesn't get a correction. But he is acting way too submissive for puppy training, which will be a problem as he starts to mature.

I'm going to agree with above, this is probably the opposite of what I would do. Not to mention, 45 minutes?? This is like expecting your toddler to sit and do college homework. I know you're impressed with the results, I would just re-think a bit here.

I'm sure this is not what you wanted to hear in the least lol. Just trying to look out for you and your dog in the future... Is this your first dobe? If you continue like this, your dog WILL shut down. We have to remember that you have to not only look at what your dog is doing when you give a command, you have to look at body language as well.
 

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Well I think it's great you are taking the time to train your pup!! I think it's great you praise him, and I don't think he looks afraid.

BUT...

I think he lacks drive and I see bits of him wanting to just be a crazy pup however he is not allowed. :( I think you should look into other more positive ways to train your dog, you obviously want a well trained dog in the end correct? But don't you also want a happy energetic dog? You can have both. :)

Why did you choose this method to train your puppy?
 

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It is great that you enjoy training your new puppy and I encourage you to keep learning. There does not seem to be much around you in NV so I would look into the Doberman Pincher Club of Reno for guidance on trainers that you could work with. Also the Leerburg website has a ton of great training videos on their website and for purchase that you might really enjoy seeing. Congrats on what you have accomplished, I just think that you and your puppy might be happier with positive reinforcement training/marker training.

Also, you can ruin a fast recall by practicing the drop on recall too much. I would focus more on the recall vs the drop.

Good luck with Blade and keep coming back here for advice. I learn something new everyday on this site and we all love people that are willing to become better doberman fanatics.
 

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I think the Command collar is a plastic type pinch collar I also am seeing a puppy that is scared of not doing it right.When the man walks up to the puppy he the pup ducks his head down like he is fearful he is going to get a correction.The collar is very loose on the pup s neck too far down to give a correction.Please lighten up let him be a puppy I agree training should only be 10-20 minutes at most maybe twice a day if you have the time. Glad that you are training but please let him be a puppy & happy.
 

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I was watching some of the other videos, and while it's definitely apparent that you have a VERY smart dog, I think you should probably rethink some of the methods you're using, and work on timing... I saw you correct your dog for coming to you, and a different time for eye contact. You thought you were correcting for breaking a stay and not laying down...This is confusing to the dog, and it's going to create a dog that listens out of fear. While this type of dog will generally be obedient, it will also be very unhappy. And I would NEVER use a recall to punish your dog. These types of corrections, while I wouldn't use them normally, especailly in initial training, are definitely not suitable for such a young dog. Your dog often looks nervous, and with current of future fear periods, you can potentially set yourself back quite a bit.

I feel like these methods are harsh, and dated, and not suitable for dobermans. Dobermans respond much better to more positive methods, as opposed to fear based or correction training. I've watched a few of his free clips, and I can see why people would think this stuff is impressive. I've seen him work with some very obedient dogs, but looks can also be deceiving, and I've seen quite a bit of fluff. The end result should be an operant, problem solving dog, who is not afraid to try new things, and will work out problems. When you correct a dog like this, especially at this age, and even moreso on the first time you're doing something, it's going to make your dog afraid to try new things, and he will just shut down. Just something to think about...

I only point this out because it seems like you're taking your dog and training pretty seriously, so just some food for thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for all your feed back.

Well thank you all for your positive feedback..

This is my first Dobe and also my first time using this type of training method.
I did a lot of research online about Doberman's before purchasing him so I would know what kind of dog i'm dealing with, plus the best ways to get a obedient and respectful dog.

I'll try to answer all questions.. :D

The training method I'm using is called the Command Collar.
It is not a shock collar at all..
It's a very mild pinch collar that resembles a mother's bite..
Depending on the force you use, determines the effect of the bite.

I understand that he is a puppy..
For some reason people are suggesting that i'm depriving him of his
"puppy nature"..
That could not be farther from the truth.
Blade is a extremely happy pup!!
I only train about 3-4 times a week..
NO HE IS NOT TO YOUNG!!
Dobermans are very strong minded pack leaders.
If you don't set the standards for what is acceptable at a young age, then your only hurting your dog in the long run because training will be twice as hard, and take twice as long.

While in training mode Blade know's what is expected of him and he tries very hard not to displease.
The corrections I make are very weak and proper for his age.
I never use treats for praise.. That is the worst thing you can do. All your dog requires is petting and love.. It's that simple. I don't praise much while we are training.. I wait until the end so he has something big to look forward to. It just keeps him more focused while we work.

Yes I do run with him in the park before we train so he is less distracted and more focused.. That's probably why you think he has "no drive".. :roflmao:
He is very energetic and crazy. As he should be.
Running around while trying to get results out of your dog don't go hand n hand..

I don't see anything wrong with the way I do things. I've also seen other dogs who have had similar training and are very hyper, happy, loving carefree dog's..

Us as dog owners have a responsibility to make sure that our pets have the freedom and trust that all will be ok.
Most people have dogs for the sole reason of a companion. Or they are bound to a life on that thing they call a collar.
With a well trained dog, I know that I can walk with Blade off leash and trust that he will listen and obey anything that I require, and with him knowing that it's in his best interest and safety.

Blade is a little over 4 months now and the training process is almost complete.. I can walk with him off leash under extreme distraction.. He knows boundaries. Never bolts!!! Does not jump on me or strangers. Never counter surfs.. ect..
Now aren't those things that we all want for our dog?? Am I wrong??
How many people do you know that can honestly say that their 4 month old dog can do those things?.... Not to many i'm sure..
People have that idea stuck in their head that a puppy can't or shouldn't be trained like a adult dog because you will break his spirit..
LOL.. Well then they are doing something totally different then me.
I'm 100% in love with my dog and want only the best life for him!
He has that life and freedom that all dogs should..

I apologize if my video offended anyone who viewed it.
As i'm sure you realize, i'm just very proud of his success and wanted to share it with the world.
I hope I've given some insight to my actions and understanding to my reasoning. :nicejob:

Thanks again for all your feedback!
Please keep it coming! :thanx:
 

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Well thank you all for your positive feedback..

This is my first Dobe and also my first time using this type of training method.
I did a lot of research online about Doberman's before purchasing him so I would know what kind of dog i'm dealing with, plus the best ways to get a obedient and respectful dog.

I'll try to answer all questions.. :D

The training method I'm using is called the Command Collar.
It is not a shock collar at all..
It's a very mild pinch collar that resembles a mother's bite..
Depending on the force you use, determines the effect of the bite.

I understand that he is a puppy..
For some reason people are suggesting that i'm depriving him of his
"puppy nature"..
That could not be farther from the truth.
Blade is a extremely happy pup!!
I only train about 3-4 times a week..
NO HE IS NOT TO YOUNG!!
Dobermans are very strong minded pack leaders.
If you don't set the standards for what is acceptable at a young age, then your only hurting your dog in the long run because training will be twice as hard, and take twice as long.

While in training mode Blade know's what is expected of him and he tries very hard not to displease.
The corrections I make are very weak and proper for his age.
I never use treats for praise.. That is the worst thing you can do. All your dog requires is petting and love.. It's that simple. I don't praise much while we are training.. I wait until the end so he has something big to look forward to. It just keeps him more focused while we work.

Yes I do run with him in the park before we train so he is less distracted and more focused.. That's probably why you think he has "no drive".. :roflmao:
He is very energetic and crazy. As he should be.
Running around while trying to get results out of your dog don't go hand n hand..

I don't see anything wrong with the way I do things. I've also seen other dogs who have had similar training and are very hyper, happy, loving carefree dog's..

Us as dog owners have a responsibility to make sure that our pets have the freedom and trust that all will be ok.
Most people have dogs for the sole reason of a companion. Or they are bound to a life on that thing they call a collar.
With a well trained dog, I know that I can walk with Blade off leash and trust that he will listen and obey anything that I require, and with him knowing that it's in his best interest and safety.

Blade is a little over 4 months now and the training process is almost complete.. I can walk with him off leash under extreme distraction.. He knows boundaries. Never bolts!!! Does not jump on me or strangers. Never counter surfs.. ect..
Now aren't those things that we all want for our dog?? Am I wrong??
How many people do you know that can honestly say that their 4 month old dog can do those things?.... Not to many i'm sure..
People have that idea stuck in their head that a puppy can't or shouldn't be trained like a adult dog because you will break his spirit..
LOL.. Well then they are doing something totally different then me.
I'm 100% in love with my dog and want only the best life for him!
He has that life and freedom that all dogs should..

I apologize if my video offended anyone who viewed it.
As i'm sure you realize, i'm just very proud of his success and wanted to share it with the world.
I hope I've given some insight to my actions and understanding to my reasoning. :nicejob:

Thanks again for all your feedback!
Please keep it coming! :thanx:

I am going to comment on what I have bolded.

A 4 month old puppy does NOT always know what's expected of him.
Using treats for reward is definitely NOT the worst thing you can do.
I am training with someone that uses food for as long as they can. She is a world class trainer and competitor. What are the qualifications of the inventor of the command collar? As I'm assuming he is the one spewing this crap.
Oh and by the way, your pup doesn't think oh boy I get a pat and hug at the end...if I do x amount of sits..lol! Give me a break!

Your pup might be showing good training now, his world is pretty small at this point. Wait till he is around 18 months, hopefully you won't have him off leash near a busy road with a ton of distractions. Cause "Mom's bite" probably ain't going to stop him then!!
 

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Well thank you all for your positive feedback..

This is my first Dobe and also my first time using this type of training method.
I did a lot of research online about Doberman's before purchasing him so I would know what kind of dog i'm dealing with, plus the best ways to get a obedient and respectful dog.

I'll try to answer all questions.. :D

The training method I'm using is called the Command Collar.
It is not a shock collar at all..
It's a very mild pinch collar that resembles a mother's bite..
Depending on the force you use, determines the effect of the bite.

I understand that he is a puppy..
For some reason people are suggesting that i'm depriving him of his
"puppy nature"..
That could not be farther from the truth.
Blade is a extremely happy pup!!
I only train about 3-4 times a week..
NO HE IS NOT TO YOUNG!!
Dobermans are very strong minded pack leaders.
If you don't set the standards for what is acceptable at a young age, then your only hurting your dog in the long run because training will be twice as hard, and take twice as long.

While in training mode Blade know's what is expected of him and he tries very hard not to displease.
The corrections I make are very weak and proper for his age.
I never use treats for praise.. That is the worst thing you can do. All your dog requires is petting and love.. It's that simple. I don't praise much while we are training.. I wait until the end so he has something big to look forward to. It just keeps him more focused while we work.

Yes I do run with him in the park before we train so he is less distracted and more focused.. That's probably why you think he has "no drive".. :roflmao:
He is very energetic and crazy. As he should be.
Running around while trying to get results out of your dog don't go hand n hand..

I don't see anything wrong with the way I do things. I've also seen other dogs who have had similar training and are very hyper, happy, loving carefree dog's..

Us as dog owners have a responsibility to make sure that our pets have the freedom and trust that all will be ok.
Most people have dogs for the sole reason of a companion. Or they are bound to a life on that thing they call a collar.
With a well trained dog, I know that I can walk with Blade off leash and trust that he will listen and obey anything that I require, and with him knowing that it's in his best interest and safety.

Blade is a little over 4 months now and the training process is almost complete.. I can walk with him off leash under extreme distraction.. He knows boundaries. Never bolts!!! Does not jump on me or strangers. Never counter surfs.. ect..
Now aren't those things that we all want for our dog?? Am I wrong??
How many people do you know that can honestly say that their 4 month old dog can do those things?.... Not to many i'm sure..
People have that idea stuck in their head that a puppy can't or shouldn't be trained like a adult dog because you will break his spirit..
LOL.. Well then they are doing something totally different then me.
I'm 100% in love with my dog and want only the best life for him!
He has that life and freedom that all dogs should..

I apologize if my video offended anyone who viewed it.
As i'm sure you realize, i'm just very proud of his success and wanted to share it with the world.
I hope I've given some insight to my actions and understanding to my reasoning. :nicejob:

Thanks again for all your feedback!
Please keep it coming! :thanx:
You say this is your first time using this method, and your first time with a doberman... Are you familiar with any other training methods, and if so, which ones?

I can tell you have your dogs best interests in mind, but I want to clear up a few things. Your dog is very flat... This is not the same as being tired, and being tired should not be confused for no drive. A drivey dog is drivey, even if they are exhausted. Your dog is showing calming signals, looks nervous, and is absolutely scared to make a mistake. When you get into more advanced training, this will hold you back. You will see this as you learn more about canine body language.

As far as using the pinch to simulate a mothers bite, this is a very flawed theory, in my opinion. Firstly, I discredit anything that talks about wolves or wild dogs, because our domesticated buddies are so far removed, it would be like comparing humans to caveman in terms of behavior. But more important, at what point is a mother EVER biting a 4 month old puppy for not listening? If you think about it, it's actually very unnatural and does not occur.

When people say about training, and letting your dog play, what you are doing is excessive, and it shows. Short training sessions a few times a day can get the same results, if done propperly. My rescue also did all these things at 4 months old, (I'm sure lots of members here did) but we trained maybe 2-3 minute sessions twice a day, using less confusing, and more fun methods.

As far as never using treats, and only using praise, you have to base that off of your dog and his drives. Praise may be good, but if you have a dog that is extremely food driven, you're slowing your progess significantly, and eventually your dog won't be happy to work for praise anymore. Just like if your dog has huge prey drive, your best reward may be playing some kind of game, maybe tug or something similar. My girl loves praise, and it seems like a good reward, until you take out a tennis ball, then who cares about praise... Then take out a tug rope, and who cares about the ball. Take out the bite wedge, and the tug rope doesn't exist... You want to use the best reward possible, and every dog is different. I'm not sure why you would think that using treats is the worst thing you can do, but if you use them propperly as a training tool, there's nothing wrong with it at all.

And again just to emphasize, because it is one of the most important things, you have to be very, very careful with the timing of your corrections, because you are confusing and scaring your dog.

In the end what you do is up to you, but I can tell you that most of the more experienced trainers here would probably not use these methods.

I do think it's amazing that your dog is doing these things at 4 months old, but again, his body language is showing a dog that is nervous, and not happy. You want to be able to do off leash work succesfully, and what you're doing may make that seem like it's happening now. As your dog starts to mature, and can think for himself, he will decide not to come back to you if you call him for correction. That should be one of the top rules, NEVER use recall for correction, ever... This will make your dog not want to recall. It's a little different right now, while you are his whole world. But, just like kids growing up, he's going to be getting more and more independant, and I'm concerned that some of the things I have seen will actually work to your disadvantage when that happens.

Anyways, just some food for thought.
 

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I think that there is a ton of information out there and I encourage you again to look at the Leerburg website for their training philosophies. If you are going to continue to use compulsion training then know that your dog will never preform with enthusiasm. We all saw you approach your dog and your dog broke eye contact and lowered his head. That is the opposite of what you ultimately want. You dog was nervous of a correction which means that your corrections have been too harsh. If you don't want to use food then try using the ball as a reward. When you ask for the down and he does it then throw the ball.

I am a dog trainer that was originally trained in Compulsion training and I know through experience the difference in the finished product. The difference is that your dog will learn quicker but will not be able to learn as much in the end. Also your dog will preform slowly. It is nowhere as impressive as a dog that is enthusiastic about that training. You will never have that enthusiasm unless you find a reward that makes happy to preform.

I don't have time to look it up now but it would be great to go on YouTube and show you all of the top obedience dogs or schutzhund dogs performing vs the dogs that were trained with pure compulsion. Police dogs are not even trained that way anymore. It is outdated for a reason.
 

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I'm going to comment on using treats as the worst thing you can do. Flirt has her Open agility Standard title and 1 leg of Open JWW (which means she has her novice titles also) and currently got her first Exc leg. She has a very reliable off leash recall. We run every single weekend and she comes when called. I think you need to do more research and I feel sorry for your pup.

My Vizsla is almost 3 and has his junior hunt title, working on senior, novice standard, novice jumpers, needs 1 leg for open standard and...do you know what I train with? A clicker and treats. We are working towards his Senior hunter (where many used to use shock collars and I use positive methods).

My 8 year old had to learn with me along the way and she has her Junior hunt title, Open jumpers, novice standard, novice jumpers preferred.

all of them again have a solid recall and are trained very very very well.

This is how happy I like my dogs to be in training
bow2 - YouTube

recall come both.AVI - YouTube

I'll just add there is NO reason to put any funky collar on a dog to train, but ESPECIALLY a 4 month old. From the looks of that video, his spirit is broken during training. At 4 months I am more concerned with socializing. You can train at any age. He's at a critical period for socialization and as such that would be my focus.
 

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I'll go ahead and remark on the PM you sent here. My reply to your video was very short and to the point b/c the video I saw IMO is a horrible way to train a puppy.

Was Kyrah distracted during the match run video that I posted. Yes, she was. It was brand new and our first time at one. Then even at another match yes she was. When her nose picked out that my daughter and grandpup made it to the trial right in the middle of our run and stopped and sniffed. I followed her nose to see my daughter and grandpup. Then I said oh, Hey! You guys made it! Hey! Dexter! Then my daughter tells me. "Mom, your suppose to be running." LOL Was I distracted YES!

I would rather use clicker training/positive call it what you want. I know Kyrah does things with me/listens to me b/c she wants to not b/c she is worried/scared I am going to come over and yank her collar.

I did not have to use an alpha roll to let her know I am the boss! IMO she respects me b/c I have earned it. I showed her what was expected from her. She is great on leash/offleash and looks at me for guidance in many situations. Do I want to dominate her? Never!

A relationship is built over time not the minute I decided to bring a puppy home. Hey you are mine do what I say! My dogs are my best friends and thats the kind of relationship we have. Give and take on both ends.
 
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