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As for getting a true unbiased opinion about Euro Dobes, you are not going to get this from a North American breeder/enthusiast. That would be like calling up Pepsi Cola and asking them if they think Coke is a better product. ** Aren't you a Euro supporter? Don't you find something wrong with getting a true unbiased opinion from you too? **

We all have our preferences there, and we are all entitled. LOL, wouldn't expect people to fight over such a thing, but it happens. Of course I am going to stereotype here, because there are most definitely exceptions to the rule. I have seen some pretty low drive Euro dobes and I have seen some pretty tough N.A. dobes too! **There are plenty of show Dobermans with bone and substance from NA. You say Euro bashing is bad. I am also tired of individuals bashing NA Dobermans for being low drive and weak and gazelle looking. That is not so. Your exceptions to the rule comment is also wrong as it implies that most NA are low drive. **

I have been so head over heels deep into the Euro lines for the last 16 years that for me to offer you advice at all on a N.A. pedigree would be about as natural as me advising you on a poodle's pedigree. I simply do not know the lines, so unless I am going to research them for several generations myself, I will not delve into pretending to know the weaknesses or strengths of a particular pedigree. I have always found it hilarious to hear the advices given from those who have little to no experience with the Euro strain. Especially when placing full judgments on the failing of one or two dogs when there are hundreds to be considered. ** Couldn't have said it better. You cannot fully judge the NA Dobe either, since you haven't even been involved much with them for the past 16 years you have spent head of heels with Euro Dobes. Since you say your knowledge of the NA is the same of your pedigree knowledge on a poodle, I don't think you can make broad judgments about NA Dobes either.

I agree with Micdobe 100%. And there are many people are taken with the Euro Dobe without do much research. Many commercial breeders are now using that as a gimmick. Even if you don't, you must admit there are MANY that do, a simple google search will reveal that as a fact. They base their entire marketing scheme on the fact they own "superior" Euro Dobermans. It is really quite sad that people actually fall for this. I am not saying you are one of those, but those types have risen in popularity.
 

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gatehouse said:
First, I'm not being defensive, I just find it odd that someone with "30 years experience" can say such negative things about any dobermann, and then tell me that I don't have enough titles on my dogs, when they they won't even brag about their own accomplishments.
There is a HUGE difference between an average Dobe pet owner and a Doberman BREEDER. I would very much hope you do way more health testing and have more titles on your dogs if you are breeding them. Breeding should be for a reason, to better the breed.

Of course individual pet owners would benefit from working their dogs and doing things with them (one of my Dobes is altered (sitting on my foot right now) but that doesn't stop me from showing him in many venues, he has several titles, has a bit of health testing and we will continue to show and work in various venues even though he is a pet/companion b/c I feel it is important as well as a lot of fun).

But there is a certain standard that should be applied to breeding Dobermans vs. companions ("'pet") Dobermans. Yes, all Dobermans are ("pet")companions first and foremost, even the show, breeding, and working prospects.

While all Dobermans should be shown and/or worked and it wouldn't hurt to health test the pets, those things are a must for breeding better Dobermans. That is why there are show/performance prospects and pets and good breeders use many factors (titles in many venues, temperament tests, health tests, etc.) to decide which Dobermans are bred.

Also, the person in question doesn't have a kennel name and isn't promoting her Dobes and breeding practices/program on an open forum, she is not a breeder. I don't see why she needs to "brag".
 
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