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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
The purpose of this thread is to discuss Desert Legend East Dobermans: Desert Legend Dobermans East professionally breeds and sells high quality, super sized Dobermans

In my opinion, DLE is not a reputable/ethical breeder. Some red flags:

-breeds "Superior Sized Family Protection Dobermans"

Aside from the fact that this breeder is intentionally breeding a larger-than-standard Doberman, I have an issue with them claiming they are "protection Dobermans". No protection or working titles are listed (aside from the stud) so how can one claim they are "protection Dobermans"? By virtue of them being Dobermans? It comes off as being a marketing ploy because it seems to be a completely unfounded claim. Also, and please correct me if I am wrong, but "Level 3 Schutzhund Champion" isn't correct terminology. To me this says that the breeder isn't very familiar with Schutzhund and the title his dog "holds". Whether or not Lobster actually holds this title is debatable as well:

He isn't merely a SchH3 but a Level 3 Schutzhund Champion! There isn't much information on Klassik Alert Dobermans let alone this dog. I am skeptical...they don't even have any photos on their websites of this dog training. Most of these euro greeders love to show pictures of their working dogs doing some rag work.
Klassik Allert Lobster DOES NOT have Sch-3 and has never been trained to Sch-3. He has basic obedience and protection certificates. And he is a champion. But no Sch-3. He actually has a very even temperament. He is larger than standard.

Klassik Allert is a very respected Russian kennel, probably the only working doberman kennel in Russia. The owner and trainer of this kennel was Vice-Weltmeister 2004.
from: http://www.dobermantalk.com/breedin...se-gentle-w-your-responses-7.html#post1079546

Also, if anyone cares to do a search here, there are plenty of other members involved in working sports that have voiced their doubts about Lobster's ScH title.

Dobermans were bred to be a medium sized breed. I don't understand how intentionally breeding for a "superior size" is desirable. Breeding larger Dobermans means more strain on organs and joints and lowers life expectancy in an already unhealthy breed. Their larger structures will also affect their performance in working sports, etc.

-DLE repeatedly breeds the same stud with the same bitches

IMO, a good breeder breeds to better the breed. If a breeder only breeds his one stud to the same bitches, not only is there a lack of diversity, but it also shows that there is no goal to the breeding program. As to the bolded quote below, I don't consider one outside female to be diversifying the gene pool either. There aren't an abundance of ScH3 male Dobermans in the states, so I would think if Lobster was such a breed worthy stud that we would see him being bred to titled working bitches regardless of his kennel. Of course there is a stigma attached to Desert Legend, but I really think if DLE was doing everything right in terms of health testing and titling, that people would approach DLE to breed to Lobster.

-Doesn't know the difference between "confirmation" and "conformation"

This one is a personal pet peeve. If you are going to advertise your dogs as having "solid confirmation" at least get it right. That alone would make me walk away.

I'm not trying to start a flame war with you, but I do have some questions about your comments.

Why isn't Lobster the perfect stud dog for his females? He breeds Lobster with another female who lives not too far away from him named Sunny. Maybe he's happy doing only that.

When my wife and I were initially talking with him about getting a puppy, we had the reschedule twice because the first time, Sunny went into heat and they had to get the two together. The second time he postponed was because a Schutzhund trainer was in town and he needed to get Lobster some training time with him.

So he does breed Lobster with a female outside of his kennel, and he continues to involve Lobster in Schutzhund training.

People can be suspicious of Lobster's titles all they want. But don't you think if they are predisposed to not like DLE in the first place, that they are more likely to to be suspicious of such things?

Really educated Doberman Breeders? On whose authority are these breeders considered to be "really educated?" Is there a test that they take? Or is it based on people's personal opinions and biases? Or is it more like a clique, or even a cult?
Lonestar Boogie- I don't intend to have a war over this either. Everything I have written is my opinion and I expect you to disagree with it. I think Lobster is a nice looking dog, but I just don't agree with DLE breeding philosophy.

I hope this thread remains civil and educational for anyone that reads it in the future. :)
 

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u mad?
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I really don't have anything to add to this right now other than to completely agree with your opinion and thank you, a second time, for this post.
 

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sufferin succotash
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DLE was granted a K2 kennel license, 51-100 dogs per year.

During the Feb 3, 2012 kennel inspection, they had 10 adult dogs and 10 puppies on site.

Oct 13, 2011 kennel inspection, they had 11 adult dogs on site.

Feb 17, 2011 kennel inspection, they had 12 adult dogs on site.

Oct 19, 2010 kennel inspection, they had 13 adult dogs and 10 puppies on site.

They are licensed under kennel name "Big Family Dobermans"
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I think the thing that irks me the most is the "superior sized" Dobermans. If I were to ask any of the Dane owners I know what they would want to change the most about the breed, the vast majority would say life expectancy. There's a reason bigger breeds are often referred to as "heartbreak" breeds.
 

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I think the thing that irks me the most is the "superior sized" Dobermans. If I were to ask any of the Dane owners I know what they would want to change the most about the breed, the vast majority would say life expectancy. There's a reason bigger breeds are often referred to as "heartbreak" breeds.
Zeus is a perfect example of 'bigger is NOT better'. His agility, speed, stamina, working ability, and health is so much worse than the correct sized dobes I work with...... They look tiny to me (because I'm used to Zeus), but they are much much more energetic, agile, and just seem to do everything much easier....

The only thing Zeus has as an "advantage":
His long legs and conformation gives him a very exaggerated gait. Its not the correct 'forward' movement of dobermans, but he prances with suspension like a horse and it is pretty to watch. Most importantly his heeling is very pretty to watch when he is engaged. :p

There is a ginormous GSD that trains with me. Zeus is just under 100 lbs lean, and almost 31".....This dog makes Zeus look like the 'correct size' , his legs are ridiculously thick, his head is larger than mine, and everything he does is in slow motion. I thought he was around 6-7...... turns out he is only 1.5 years old?!?! Absolutely insane how much his size dictates how he moves, acts,and most of all looks! He literally looks like a 'senior'

Its truly sad that people do this on purpose.
 

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Holier Than Now
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Zeus is a perfect example of 'bigger is NOT better'. His agility, speed, stamina, working ability, and health is so much worse than the correct sized dobes I work with...... They look tiny to me (because I'm used to Zeus), but they are much much more energetic, agile, and just seem to do everything much easier...
Huge ditto on this.

I spend a lot of time around a very large (rescued) male Doberman.

He is so much slower, has more difficulty cornering, accelerating, decelerating, and jumping, than correct-to-standard size Dobermans.

If we were talking horses we'd say he's "not handy."

He's young, remains to be seen how much his joints will be affected, long-term.

And yep, every time we're out in public, folks FLOCK to the "great big Doberman," like moths to a flame.

It just makes me shake my head--he's a sweet, good boy, but his size--and all that comes along with that--is sure nothing to envy.
 

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Is this the kennel that Jambolou Dobermans has bred litters with??
 
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sufferin succotash
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yeppers. Her new ad. Sire is from DLE:

We are planning to breed our 100lb superior size Amer/Euro girl, Sunny. Previous litters have produced 90-110+ lb offspring. Parents are 100+ lbs and 30+ inches at shoulders. Puppies are anticipated to be close to size of parents at maturity. $2000.00
Is this the kennel that Jambolou Dobermans has bred litters with??
 

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Well, I'm hoping that the people who signed her application for DPCA are regretting it now! Uggggghhhhh....... so NOT surprised!
 
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