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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't have a puppy yet, I'm still talking to breeders and narrowing down my list before making a decision but even after reading some threads here, I have questions.

First off, can someone tell me what kind of posting this puppy has? You see the puppy at about 0:30 into the video with better views of the posting as it goes on. Also, enjoy the video? I found it amusing.


I'm curious about this since the pup's ears aren't wrapped like a mummy and it's more subtle (no disrespect to anyone who posts their dog's ears that way, you do you!). It might cause people to throw me less shade and dirty looks? Who knows (and I guess at the end of the day, who cares?).

Also I have heard that getting ears to stand can take anywhere from 6 months to over a year depending on cartilage, crop, posting etc. Can anyone tell me their experiences with medium to military-medium (is that even a real/correct term for it? Pfft) crops and how long they may take to stand? I think I like medium crops the best with a military crop on the longer side a good second.

I don't intend to breed or show my dog anyhow, so I don't think I'd need any form of show crop.

Aaaaand I guess if anyone has any advice for a newbie I'll gladly take it. I've read threads here, but even information I've read already is still welcome. Thanks!
 

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Big Lil pup
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Hi Tbird

That looks like the "zip tie" method. Or some variation of it. Some people really like it, depending on the crop. Take a look at this tutorial: Posting Ears--Zip Tie Method. Tutorial videos.

About crop length: I find it a matter of personal opinion. I would actually prefer a more medium crop on a pet/companion dog of mine, That is as long as the base of the ear is shaped properly, so as not to ruin the look of the shape of the head. But that's probably just nostalgia on my part. That being said... Any breeder that I would get a pup from, at this day and age, would probably crop the entire litter, so ear crop length would not be chosen by me. You would be better off, making the same assumption that a reputable breeder, willing to provide you with a quality Doberman puppy, will send it home with its ears already cropped. Generally, in the US, if they don't, it tends to raise questions about the rest of their breeding practices.

About posting time: There are very general timelines. However, this is something that you should really not attempt to predetermine. And certainly not base a crop length on the amount of time that you want be post your puppy's ears. Basically successful posting involves two things from you:
1) Using a proven technique, with dedication and attention to detail.
2) Being patient... Patient during the actual posting of the ears, including any bumps in the road that you might experience. And patient with the overall length of time you end up posting, from start to finish. There is no magic number. Getting impatient is counterproductive. The ears are finished when they are finished.

John L
Portland OR
 

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Good information from John^^^--I've got a couple of things to say about crop length. Have you actually seen a Doerman with a military crop? The crops on some of the big bully breeds are military crops and they are actually only about an inch long and look terrible on Dobermans. Even in the far distant past Dobes were rarely cropped that short (and the reason the pit bulls were was to minimize the possibility of having ears torn when fighting. Dobes were never intended for that kind of use (although they are valued as practice dogs). So if you have the choice of what kind of crop I'd recommend that you look on the internet for pictures of various crop styles--I think there may even be an old thread here that will give you some ideas. You should be able to find it it by using the search function.

I do a fair amount of posting for people whose breeders didn't get the ears cropped and who have had no experience with posting--some of the hardest ears to get to stand correctly have been the medium crops. I think the long show crops are the easiest and sometimes the quickest to stand.

John's explanation as to why you can't predict how long you might need to post in on the money. All you can do with any crop is post until it's done--and that can vary not just dog to dog but even within an entire litter of puppies.

How you choose to post really makes very little difference--it won't stop people from commenting on the fact that you are a horrible person for having your puppy cropped. Does not make much difference if you use a glue in the post technique which minimizes the amount of tape around the ear or a more conventional type of post--they still will comment.

They did this when I got my first Dobe in 1959 and still do it today. The bottom line for me is that it is none of their business--so mostly I rely on not talking to them . If they insist I've got a couple of methods that work--I either tell them the puppy came this way. And I've got one phrase in Spanish that I use for really pushy people--i just repeat that and keep walking. (I also had one in Russian that I quit using after my friend who taught it to me translated it for me--yikes--I didn't want to be saying that to anyone in any language.

The show crops aren't all very long--but as John explained the shaping is different and it is designed to make the ears fit the dogs head. I'd be careful not to even mention military crop because there isn't really any such thing as a longer military crop--by definition they are very short.

OH, and the type of posting on the puppy in the video--could be a tie wrap type (glued in) or a calking rod (glued in) either one would look kind of the same. Both work.

dobebug
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Good information from John^^^--I've got a couple of things to say about crop length. Have you actually seen a Doerman with a military crop? The crops on some of the big bully breeds are military crops and they are actually only about an inch long and look terrible on Dobermans. Even in the far distant past Dobes were rarely cropped that short (and the reason the pit bulls were was to minimize the possibility of having ears torn when fighting. Dobes were never intended for that kind of use (although they are valued as practice dogs). So if you have the choice of what kind of crop I'd recommend that you look on the internet for pictures of various crop styles--I think there may even be an old thread here that will give you some ideas. You should be able to find it it by using the search function.

I do a fair amount of posting for people whose breeders didn't get the ears cropped and who have had no experience with posting--some of the hardest ears to get to stand correctly have been the medium crops. I think the long show crops are the easiest and sometimes the quickest to stand.

John's explanation as to why you can't predict how long you might need to post in on the money. All you can do with any crop is post until it's done--and that can vary not just dog to dog but even within an entire litter of puppies.

How you choose to post really makes very little difference--it won't stop people from commenting on the fact that you are a horrible person for having your puppy cropped. Does not make much difference if you use a glue in the post technique which minimizes the amount of tape around the ear or a more conventional type of post--they still will comment.

They did this when I got my first Dobe in 1959 and still do it today. The bottom line for me is that it is none of their business--so mostly I rely on not talking to them . If they insist I've got a couple of methods that work--I either tell them the puppy came this way. And I've got one phrase in Spanish that I use for really pushy people--i just repeat that and keep walking. (I also had one in Russian that I quit using after my friend who taught it to me translated it for me--yikes--I didn't want to be saying that to anyone in any language.

The show crops aren't all very long--but as John explained the shaping is different and it is designed to make the ears fit the dogs head. I'd be careful not to even mention military crop because there isn't really any such thing as a longer military crop--by definition they are very short.

OH, and the type of posting on the puppy in the video--could be a tie wrap type (glued in) or a calking rod (glued in) either one would look kind of the same. Both work.

dobebug

I thought the military crop was the one listed there. I kind of like it but a little longer would be good too. I still think the medium in those pictures looks the best but if my vet told me a different crop would look better on my specific dog's head I wouldn't be opposed to something different.

Interesting that the medium crops take the longest for you. I thought with less cartilage it would shorten the time. Shape has a lot to do with it too I guess, outside of genetics and other dog specific things? Thanks for the information though. The more the better.
 
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I thought the military crop was the one listed there. I kind of like it but a little longer would be good too. I still think the medium in those pictures looks the best but if my vet told me a different crop would look better on my specific dog's head I wouldn't be opposed to something different.

Interesting that the medium crops take the longest for you. I thought with less cartilage it would shorten the time. Shape has a lot to do with it too I guess, outside of genetics and other dog specific things? Thanks for the information though. The more the better.
What they've shown as a "military/pet crop" is about twice a long as an actual military crop.

The military/pet and pet/medium crops tend to have problems in post that are related to how the base is cropped. They tend to have a lot more bell than any show crop of any length which tends to make for a flatter pinna (upper section of the ear) Those flatter ears tend to be slower to stand and often want to have pockets that make them much more likely to fold over the top of the head.

I think you've confused less cartilage with a narrower crop--that more flat upper part of the ear is difficult to get to stand properly. The show crops don't have as much bell, a narrower upper ear but more curved--those ears are pretty easy to get up.

The very good croppers will be able to choose and crop a suitable ear for you but boy oh boy be sure you have a cropper who actually knows how to tailor a crop to the dog. I've seen way too many dogs who got "show" crops and the cropper clearly didn't know how the real show crop is done because all they did was elongate a medium type crop which will give you a very wide ear (it may or may not stand just fine but they never look right.

dobebug
 

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It's all semantics.

What the author is calling a military/pet crop is almost Identical to the crop my first boy received in 1974. He was from a BYB, but I had him cropped by a vet who did a lot of Doberman and Boxer show crops in the 50's, 60's and into the early 70's. My dog received what, in this man's opinion was a standard pet crop at the time: Short, with a wide bell, but still nicely shaped. Back then, rarely did I see a nice crop on a average pet/companion Doberman while walking around. Most were short, butcher jobs that left very little ear. Some were what one could refer to as "military" crops. They were ugly

That being said... That was almost 50 years ago. And today, although I can appreciate a crop that is shorter than an average length show crop, I would certainly not choose a pup of mine to be cropped in that fashion. IMO, it does nothing to compliment, what I consider to be, the beautifully shaped head of a quality Doberman.

Also, I don't own dogs that are shown in conformation. All our boys have been taken on a limited registration as pet/companian dogs. So my aesthetic preferences, for my dogs. are strictly personal, with no emphasis on how a dog will look to others. Especially in the show ring.

Again... If you are in the United States, and are planning on getting a quality Doberman from a known and reputable breeder, crop size and shape will simply not be up for your consideration. Those will be determined by the parameters set by the breeder, and the ability of the ear cropper to satisfy those requests.

JL
 

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If you use the phrase "military crop" this is what you are likely to get--probably the 2nd one (labeled as a short crop here.) It will not look good on a doberman. Even the one labeled as a long crop below (remember this is shown on a bully-type dog, with a wide head and short nose) is a bit short in my mind.

Nose Head Leg Ear Human body


From what you have said, you probably want what is called a medium pet crop (I like those better myself)

Make SURE you go to a vet who crops dobermans (as you can see above, different breeds are cropped differently), and take pictures of what you would like with you rather than rely on words. Your idea of what is short or long, or wide or narrow, may differ significantly from what a particular vet would think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It's so unfortunate that I live in Idaho where there are very few breeders, even fewer good ones, and absolutely none of the recommended ear cropping vets on the DT list are in Idaho.

I have airline credits that have been laying around collecting dust though. Maybe I'll make the trip across state lines.
 

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It's so unfortunate that I live in Idaho where there are very few breeders, even fewer good ones, and absolutely none of the recommended ear cropping vets on the DT list are in Idaho.

I have airline credits that have been laying around collecting dust though. Maybe I'll make the trip across state lines.
Where in Idaho? There are a number of good breeders to be found in Washington, Oregon and B.C. With Dobermans, and all the potential health issues inherent in the breed. plus temperament considerations, you want the deck stacked as much in your favor as you can get it. Steering clear of anyone less than a breeder with a generally acknowledged good reputation for producing quality dogs of good health, longevity and temperament, is the best way to do that.

Me? I can't think of a better reason for a road trip than to pick a Doberman puppy. Heck, even the "local" breeder of our family's last four dogs is 250 miles away. LOL

JL
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Where in Idaho? There are a number of good breeders to be found in Washington, Oregon and B.C. With Dobermans, and all the potential health issues inherent in the breed. plus temperament considerations, you want the deck stacked as much in your favor as you can get it. Steering clear of anyone less than a breeder with a generally acknowledged good reputation for producing quality dogs of good health, longevity and temperament, is the best way to do that.

Me? I can't think of a better reason for a road trip than to pick a Doberman puppy. Heck, even the "local" breeder of our family's last four dogs is 250 miles away. LOL

JL
Good ol' Boise. I know of two breeders in very very close proximity but getting a response from them has been unsuccessful. Also my budget is $3k. Husband won't budge on that one. Well, he might, but I'd have to have a really good reason since he thinks $3k is already too much. Mind you he has always bought mutts or adopted strays with the exception of one dachshund that he bought for a few hundred from a breeder. He just doesn't know how awesome a doberman is and I'm hoping I can show him.
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Whoa...

What is this? Has anyone here tried this???

 

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I don't much like trying to get a proper Doberman cropped ear up using the mole foam. I do use it at the end of posting to correct the very tips which may be tipping in or out. Works well for that. That crop looks like a "pet" crop and the mole foam may be stiff enough to support that ear but generally it doesn't work on any of the longer crops.

Good luck in your search.

dobebug
 

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Good ol' Boise. I know of two breeders in very very close proximity but getting a response from them has been unsuccessful. Also my budget is $3k. Husband won't budge on that one. Well, he might, but I'd have to have a really good reason since he thinks $3k is already too much. Mind you he has always bought mutts or adopted strays with the exception of one dachshund that he bought for a few hundred from a breeder. He just doesn't know how awesome a doberman is and I'm hoping I can show him.
I replied on your other post I forgot to mention there, so I will mention here... the last thing of a responsible ethical breeder is they will NOT send puppies home uncropped. Too many bad croppers out there. They want to make sure their puppies have proper crops. If a breeder isn't cropping, I would question the whole practice. Most good breeders won't leave them uncropped even at request from buyer because they have a bring back clause. If the dog ever gets rehomed the buyer HAS to bring them back to the breeder. A cropped Doberman is easier to home. That is how a breeder decribed it to me. Don't compromise on what you want. I know what it's like to be soooo ready to get your dream dog. i had more heart breaking set backs in my journey than I care to discuss, but now I have an amazing breeder and my house remodel is almost done and it's going to be the best situation to have the best success I can. PS My breeder does all the health testing, cropping, genetic testing, showing, etc and they are only 500 over your husbands limit. That's not much when you think about the love and joy your pup will bring you, hopefully, for over a decade. I think 3-4 thousand is the average price ethical breeders charge, but more experienced people may chime in on that.
 
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