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It's very frustrating, but we can't let down our guard! I feel somewhat guilty for going on vacation, but I think we did it smart and totally kept to ourselves for the whole trip. We have been back 2 weeks today, and can resume what passes for normal life right now. I know that I am high risk - so the whole family is pretty careful.
 

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Mocha
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Interesting and kind of scary article.

"What differentiates Covid-19 is the far-reaching nature of its effects. While it starts in the lungs, it often affects many other parts of the body, including the heart, kidneys and the digestive and nervous systems, doctors said.
“I haven’t really seen any other illness that affects so many different organ systems in as many different ways as Covid does,” said Zijian Chen, medical director for Mount Sinai Health System’s Center for Post-Covid Care.
He described colleagues who were energetic, but after getting sick, had trouble getting through the day. He said he has seen up close how Covid-19 still affects their ability to do the things they love.
“We thought it was a virus that, once it does what it does, you recover and you go back to normal,” he said. Sometimes that isn’t the case, and that “is really scary,” he said.
A leading explanation for long-Covid symptoms is that immune-system activity and ensuing inflammation continue to affect organs or the nervous system even after the virus is gone, researchers said.
Some of the most compelling evidence for the inflammation theory comes from Covid-19 patients with signs of heart inflammation and injury months after illness. One study looking at 100 Covid-19 patients two months after getting sick found that 78 had abnormal findings on cardiac magnetic resonance imaging, while 60 had cardiac MRIs indicating heart-muscle inflammation. The study included hospitalized, nonhospitalized and asymptomatic patients.
“Even those who had no symptoms and were young and fit…even in those patients we saw abnormalities,” said Eike Nagel, one of the lead authors and director of the Institute for Experimental and Translational Cardiovascular Imaging at the University Hospital Frankfurt in Germany."

Doctors Begin to Crack Covid's Mysterious Long-Term Effects
 

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Ugh, Minnesota has record breaking numbers for the past few days, and the ICUs are near capacity. We are FAILING.

Also, in case you missed this disturbing news: Denmark is killing their ENTIRE mink population - 17 million mink - because a coronavirus mutation has popped up that is very concerning. That is...really troubling. Denmark To Kill Up To 17 Million Minks After Discovering Mutated Coronavirus. Not only that, but they had to put part of the country into lockdown because of the mutated strain. It's jumped to a few humans. Seriously...this is a horror movie. Parts Of Northern Denmark On Lockdown Over Coronavirus Variant Outbreak In Minks
 
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Same here Meadowcat ! blew right thru 4,000 that pass few day ! Great job Hoosiers ! Like I have posted before , Walmart lot was FULL at 11am the other day . We live in Shelby County , we are very close to being one of the hot , hot spots , currently number 4 in the state .

The Minks in Denmark don't surprise me MC - for them to have17 mil. then they have to be raised in confinement of some sorts no social distancing , no know what mean ?

There are thousands of viruses in the world , like the one ? dang it ! The one that infects Turkeys and chickens , that comes from migratory birds , like geese or so on , well that's the thinking on it .

I think a point that is being missed is they talk about the Spanish flu , a hundred years ago , they say it took 2 years for it to go away , the point is , for me anyway , was the world was a lot smaller back then ! No Walmarts , No big anything . People today will not stand to stay out of the loop , Some in our family are complete Idiot's !!! True story about them !

IF ! --- Only some would have heed the warnings at first , this problem would be going away , NOT getting worse ! It's a lost cause now ! Herd amidite may be the only hope in my mind .

Sorry , But Doc has lost all hope .
 

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I don't think we would have been able to get it to go away, or even keep it under control, once it was out and floating around China. It got loose early, and had spread before ANYONE knew what to do. We had no specific treatments and no vaccine.

In the modern age of antibiotics and vaccines, we're used to thinking that we can shut down contagious disease, but we're still not actually that powerful— I think that is hubristic and arrogant of us as humans to think that we could control something like this completely. We just can't command the natural world around us to that extent. (I'm sounding like the theme of Jurassic Park, aren't I? But still…)

It took well more than 20 years of massive coordinated world-wide effort to shut down smallpox--and it was a disease that had an effective vaccine already developed, was generally not contagious until people developed symptoms (unlike the asymptomatic spread we see with CoVid), and had obvious symptoms not easily confused with others (like a cold, pneumonia, or the flu can be with CoVid.)

One problem with widespread shutdown (I'm NOT talking about individual hot spots or areas, which need to be shut down as warranted) is that there will always be another area where the virus is present, unless the whole world shuts down at once and stays shut down for a prolonged period of time. We could even get the virus under control here in the States, but as soon as we open back up to the world, it will come back—from Europe, Asia—South and Central America are extreme hot spots and yet no one talks about them. In the top 20 for deaths per million, 9 of those countries are in the Americas south of the US.

The human cost to shutdowns in terms of addictions, mental health problems, abuse situations, economic difficulties (actual starvation has even been talked about for some areas of the world) really do need to be taken into consideration. It is easy to quantify deaths directly due to the disease, and the numbers are frightening—but the not so obvious societal costs of the measures we try to take to combat CoVid are massive—they are also slowly developing and long term. But they are not countable, thus easy to discount.

We can be careful, and lots of folks aren't even using ordinary precautions. But the disease being what it is and people being what they are….to expect to have kept this thing manageable is pie in the sky thinking.

The flu is still with us—just not the super-virulent Spanish flu variety. And every year, we worry about whether that will come back. If it does….

The what-if of Monday morning quarterbacking isn't based on what could realistically have been done. We're not super-human. Our medical community isn't, our government isn't, our leaders aren't, WE aren't…..but we're all in this together. We do what we can—many of us can and should do better. It takes individual effort. And CoVid does appear to be lessening in strength. But it is not likely to just go away completely, no matter what we do.
 

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That's the thing, though, is that people can and should be doing better. I'm not even talking about mask wearing. It's that we've been asked to simply avoid gathering in groups for a short duration, until we can get a handle on better treatments, and a reasonably effective vaccine. And people simply are ignoring that, and doing what they want. Until it hits home for them personally, they won't make changes to protect others. We don't have the ability to think in terms of protecting society as a whole, rather than doing what we want in spite of the effect on the greater society. We have too much of a self-centered focus in this country.

There was a great interview with Dr. Osterholm and a doc at Harvard University/Brigham and Young (I can't remember his name) on Science Friday yesterday. They were discussing how we're only at an infection rate of maybe 15% or less right now, and so most people simply can't see the true issue. And I see and hear it all around me. It's incredibly disheartening to hear people talk about how "it's only the elderly." And I think, really? Do you not have a grandmother you care about? Do you think people that are 85 and older may not be living great lives? I don't consider them as people to be sacrificed!

I wish people could think that we are, in fact, in this together. Say no to that family dinner with your extended family that you don't live with. Don't get together with friends. As Dr. Osterholm keeps saying, this is our "Covid year." If we could all just keep our distance for a year...get a handle on the virus, we would be in a way better place. We don't have to see so many deaths. That's what it comes down to. I'm not suggesting a shutdown, I'm suggesting that the way the virus is spreading right now is small gatherings. It's borne out by evidence. People are letting their guard down, and the number one way to avoid spreading this is distance.

Our healthcare system is THISCLOSE to being overwhelmed. And that means not only people having difficulty with getting treatment for Covid, but that people are already having difficulty getting treatment for other things. There was just a story in our news yesterday about a women who needed emergency surgery and may have died because beds are full due to the surge in Covid. This is the reality.
 

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Baltimore City has gone more restrictive after a month of upward trending numbers. Now all must mask when outside as well as indoors.

Way to go, Baltimorons. You just made life harder for all of us.
 

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One thing I have going for me is that I'm not near as OLD as MC and don't have to worry ! LOL

Faln ---- Baltimorons ????????? Little ruff on your brothers and sisters -- Aren't you ?? LOL Very funny !
 

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We wear it with pride, sometimes. ;)
 

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Just caught up on this thread and same here in PA, numbers are climbing. For the most part, people in our area in the stores are wearing their masks but there is always a few we don't. Feel sorry for the clerks and cashiers but they cannot say a word to these inconsiderate idiots! We are still staying on our hill in the middle of nowhere as much as possible. Going to grocery store, for haircuts (my spa is super, super clean and careful), not going out to eat except for takeouts, but am going to obedience classes with Drogo as she only allows 5 dogs and handlers in a huge room. It is getting weary but we need to continue this to get this under control at some point.

MBM, thanks for posting that about the minks in Denmark. I did not see that one. That is certainly very scary.
 

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I heard this past weekend that a classmate of my daughters died of Covid 19 here in PA - she would have only been around 22. From what I heard, it was a blood clot - which is something that seems to be a big issue with Covid 19. My neighbor lost his 55 year old sister to a Covid related blood clot also. This stuff scares the Bejeezers out of me!!
 

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I'm so sorry to hear that, Mary Jo. This is a very different virus than anything we've seen, I think. The fact that it has so many long-term lingering issues for many, that it affects so many of the body's organs and systems....
 

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Yep. This is more than a virus for sure.
So the holidays are coming.
Which means “pressure”to attend gatherings with become more frequent.
My youngest son told me yesterday that Covid is going to her around for quite some time and I need to come visit his daughters.
He advised my granddaughter wants me to come over and play.
My younger son tends to be more understand so I did not see this one coming.
Unfortunately we are in lock down with everything spiking again.
Boy did guilt overtake me yesterday.
BUT..later in the day I did a facebook phone call and talked to her and her sister while they were under the bed.
Yup....they were hiding under the bed and thats where the FaceTime Chat took place.
Boy I forgot how much fun it used to be when I was little and would play under the bed.
Great place for a fort!!!
Ba ha ha
So the day ended great. But boy the pressure others can place on us to attend socials.
Nope not gonna do it this year......so far we are holding our ground and becoming creative To deal with these pressures as they arise.
Boy I really miss playing games with them tough...
 

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I have family that wants to stay with me the week of Thanksgiving so they can visit their grandmother who is 98. My grandmother was my favorite person in the world, so I haven't told them no. But I worry. . . I'm middle aged with no pre-existing conditions, but you just don't know.
 

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I continue to recommend Dr. Osterholm's podcasts on the cidrap website (cidrap.umn.edu/). He has been a continued voice of scientific reason throughout and has been proven right over and over throughout the pandemic. As he keeps saying, this is our "covid year." His last podcast directly addresses holiday gatherings and how high risk they are (Episode 30: A New Dialogue) This is one year we need to skip the usual holidays. Just one. We can all do that. We can put the collective good ahead of our personal desires. We've seen so very many cases from people making one small decision to gather with someone outside their immediate household, with tragic results of someone getting ill, or someone dying. I can tell you that the cases were almost non-existent for quite a while in all the elder care homes in the system my husband works for, and now they are increasing quite rapidly - all brought in by staff who have acquired them outside of the care centers. And they are spreading to the vulnerable residents there.
 
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Thanks MC.
I have watched every episode of his podcasts and its the only advise that I listen to...
Yo MC, recently Osterholm was elected to be on “someone’s” Covid team.
Did you see that announcement?
 

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I did! I was so pleased. I also really, really like Dr. Atul Gawande. His book, "Being Mortal," is one of my favorite books on medical ethics and aging. Dr. Osterholm seems pleased about the team. Between that team and Dr. Fauci I feel like there's hope for progress on this.
 
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I did! I was so pleased. I also really, really like Dr. Atul Gawande. His book, "Being Mortal," is one of my favorite books on medical ethics and aging. Dr. Osterholm seems pleased about the team. Between that team and Dr. Fauci I feel like there's hope for progress on this.
Yeah but as I read about the “new team” I did not see Fauci mentioned?
 
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