[annolyn]

I have often wondered if Doc's Wobbler's Syndrome could be a result of poor conformation. I am posting two pics. One is from when he was a puppy and was being stacked by the very nice lady who helped us post his ears. The second is a pic from when he was a year old, not very stacked at all but just focusing on something in the distance and pulling at the leash.

His back / topline really changed!

I see quite a few "euro" dobes with backs / toplines that make me cringe and whenever I see it, I want to make a comment along the lines of "watch out for Wobbler's" but I am not sure if the two are even connected.

Feel free to critique away, I would be curious to hear what people have to say about Doc's conformation

He is neutered I am just wondering....

Baby Doc stacked

1 year old Doc

 

[RottenVonSpotten]

Wobblers involves the neck vertabrae so I don't think backs or toplines really matter.

This is what the DPCA says (bolded):
"No one can say definitively what causes C.V.I.*** Conformation of the neck-shoulder tie in has been looked at, as has nutrition and dog foods, injuries, as well as heritability. There have been nutritional studies that show bone, and the spinal support system is bone, can be affected by adverse, inadequate, or improper nutritional supplementation.** However, Veterinarians usually see more of this disease in certain breeds, so this leads us to believe there must be some type of hereditary basis to this, perhaps with an environmental component." source: DPCAs

 

[annolyn]

Doc also has issues with his lower back... his lumbar vertebrae. So I guess that isn't really a part of his Wobbler's Syndrome and is just something entirely different. I know the vertebrae in his neck and lower back compress on his spinal cord which causes numbness in his back legs... he drags his back feet sometimes and doesn't pick up his back feet very high when running. Often when he jumps, he catches his hind legs on the object he is trying to jump over. He also digs at his left ear and chews at his front left foot when he is in pain... His vet just always says it's the Wobbler's but I think Doc has more than one issue here.

What I am really wondering is why his back is so... strange looking? Is it do to an over-angulated pelvis or something? When I feel along his back, it seems like his hipbones are really far forward. I don't imagine this is something normal....

Anyway... I have come to terms with the fact that Doc is FUBAR, lol... poor guy.

 

[StarlaineK9]

Wobblers involves the neck vertabrae so I don't think backs or toplines really matter.

This is what the DPCA says (bolded):
"No one can say definitively what causes C.V.I.*** Conformation of the neck-shoulder tie in has been looked at, as has nutrition and dog foods, injuries, as well as heritability. There have been nutritional studies that show bone, and the spinal support system is bone, can be affected by adverse, inadequate, or improper nutritional supplementation.** However, Veterinarians usually see more of this disease in certain breeds, so this leads us to believe there must be some type of hereditary basis to this, perhaps with an environmental component." source: DPCAs

Actually there was a seminar on this at the National last year. According to the veterinary research there is most definitely a genetic component.

This is a problem with the neck vertebrae and the cervical discs, not the topline or back. This is primarily a disc degenerative disease not a malformation of the bones themselves, per se.

 

[alwayshadpets]

I think genetics plays a part. Zeus (my daughters dog had wobblers) and his sire had it is well.

 

[annolyn]

It's crazy... Poor Doc... I'm not sure if he has Wobbler's anymore or just messed up vertebrae. I know that the vertebrae in his neck from C3-C7 are extremely abnormal. The facets are abnormal and he has stenosis... Then his vet went on to say how his lumbar vertebrae are abnormal too... very similar to his cervical vertebrae. I always just thought it was part of Wobbler's but he must have a different issue or two issues. Either way, it really sucks.

I just find it so strange that his topline changed so much from when he was a puppy to a dober-teen. I always figured that had something to do with it because he was diagnosed with Wobbler's at a very young age.

As far as I know, neither his sire or dam have Wobbler's but I don't know about the dobes in the rest of his pedigree.

 

[annolyn]

This is a problem with the neck vertebrae and the cervical discs, not the topline or back. This is primarily a disc degenerative disease not a malformation of the bones themselves, per se.

His affected vertebrae are definitely malformed :/

 

[DobieGal15]

Wobblers is really just a generic term for vertebrae abnornalities.... that said, surgery can be very effective and I would recommend it for sure, especially if your pup is still pretty young. An MRI would be the best diagnostic option which would tell you the extent of the injury/disease. Sorry he is sick

 

[Dobs4ever]

Conformation or not these dogs get injuries and dings just like we do. I use regualr chrio care for my guys. Wneh you have a twinge you go take a couple asprins they can't tell us . but asprin mask the pain - a chiro adjustment goes to the root of the problem and can releve pressure on the spine and nerve endings. If it is not adjusted then damange continues and the body tried to heal itself by making bone spurs or a thickening of the bone with calcium deposits. This causes more pressure on the spine resulting in loss of the rear end or what ever area is affected.

C3 and C4 are the most common for wobblers. I believe that with chiro care a couple times a year at least 50 to 75% of wobblers would disappear.

To add: Yes the back being out causes the rest of the spine to adjust to compensate. Remember the sone - the thigh bones connected to the hip bone and the hip bones connected to the..... It all goes together and an injury in one area cause the body to compensate and creates problems in another area.

 

[mmctaq]

I believe that with chiro care a couple times a year at least 50 to 75% of wobblers would disappear.

Is there any scientific evidence for this being true?

 

[LindaH]

Conformation or not these dogs get injuries and dings just like we do. I use regualr chrio care for my guys. Wneh you have a twinge you go take a couple asprins they can't tell us . but asprin mask the pain - a chiro adjustment goes to the root of the problem and can releve pressure on the spine and nerve endings. If it is not adjusted then damange continues and the body tried to heal itself by making bone spurs or a thickening of the bone with calcium deposits. This causes more pressure on the spine resulting in loss of the rear end or what ever area is affected.

C3 and C4 are the most common for wobblers. I believe that with chiro care a couple times a year at least 50 to 75% of wobblers would disappear.

To add: Yes the back being out causes the rest of the spine to adjust to compensate. Remember the sone - the thigh bones connected to the hip bone and the hip bones connected to the..... It all goes together and an injury in one area cause the body to compensate and creates problems in another area.

So, does the chiropractor do xrays of the neck before the adjustment. I assume they have to, but asking to clarify.

Could they adjust a neck that has a vertebrae pushed down in the spine of the neck. like say ---_---

 

[StarlaineK9]

His affected vertebrae are definitely malformed :/

Wobblers is a catch all term. CVI, is cervical vertebrae instability usually with disc degeneration and accompanied pressure on the spine. With or without severe pain it maifests as weakness in the rear. What you are describing sounds more like a spinal deformity. Either way, if there is pressure on the spinal column the symptoms are the same.

 

[sam&macksmom]

I thought I read that dogs with wobblers should not receive chiro care??

 

[DobieGal15]

I certainly wouldnt do chiropractic treatment; acupuncture, yes

 

[MeadowCat]

I thought I read that dogs with wobblers should not receive chiro care??

I have also heard that it's contra-indicated for Wobblers. As far as chiro preventing it, I highly doubt that to be true, especially for a condition with genetic components.

 

[annolyn]

Doc has been on a water therapy and acupuncture routine that really, really helps! His vet who does the acupuncture also does massage for him... she also does chiro work and has never recommended it for him. I consulted with a neurologist and surgeon about having surgery performed to help him but it wasn't recommended because of his lumbar vertebrae. I am still considering the gold bead surgery though but am still researching it. His vet said that since he does so well with the acupuncture, it may really help him.

 

[annolyn]

What you are describing sounds more like a spinal deformity. Either way, if there is pressure on the spinal column the symptoms are the same.

I think I agree with you.

I had to take Doc to his vet the other day cause I thought he had an ear infection and something wrong with his foot but she said there is nothing in his ears and suspects that he is now chewing at his front left foot and digging at his left ear due to neurological pain

 

[4RosesTess]

So sorry for you and Doc. Wishing you the best.

 

[reddobes]

More info on Wobblers/CVI
Wobbler Syndrome | College of Veterinary Medicine
http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_63/63mast.htm
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/stor...59A4FDF13B450C.d02t01?v=1&t=h2y44d7r&e96fab3d

 

[reddobes]

C3 and C4 are the most common for wobblers.

Actually, most commonly the compression occurs at C6-7 or C5-6.

The links I posted above have numerous veterinary journal articles referenced.

Here are a couple more links

http://www.vcaspecialtyvets.com/ckf...oll - Dobies Wobble And They Do Fall Down.pdf

Cervical Spondylomyelopathy - WSAVA 2004 Congress