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Hello everyone I have been looking for a doberman pupp for a very long time now. I came across circle m dobermans and was not sure if they were a very reputable breeder? Before posting this thread I did some research myself on the breeder and seemed to get mixed emotions about them but I wanted to get more input because those threads were a year or two old and Im not sure if the breeder has changed for the better or the worse? If I do go with this purchase of my new companion from Circle M dobermans located in Yucca Valley in CA the pupp will be coming home with me on the 9th of April. Any and all help is appreciated!
Thank you all for your time:thanx:

edit:if there is anyone that views this that has purchased a pupp from Circle M dobermans your input would also be very appreciated thanks!!!!
 

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u mad?
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Is this them? - Circle M Dobermans, AKC Doberman Pinscher Puppies for sale California

This is not a breeder that I would buy from.

They're only using one male to breed with... it's nice that buyers can see the father but they're not bringing much diversity in. I also cannot imagine that "Max" is the right stud to breed with all of their bitches. You can have a great male and a great female (not saying that these dogs should be bred) but that doesn't mean that they should be bred. Many considerations go into breeding.

They post about no hereditary diseases in any of their bitches' pedigrees and that's just not believable to me considering how unhealthy this breed is.. They post about excellent pedigrees but don't have them on the site to prove it. This doesn't mean that they don't exist but it's a small peeve of mine.

I searched the OFA database and none of their females are on it. I can't really expect to search for "Max" on the database and be successful.

I find it hard to think that making money isn't their only goal when a trail of coins follows your cursor while you're on the site.

They don't seem to do ANYTHING with their dogs other than breed them.

I don't know what they're charging but I'm SURE that you can get a puppy with a better start at life for your money.
 

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oh lovely.

more dogs living in kennels.

why the heck would you even consider this breeder?

also.................the conformation of their dogs just sucks.
 

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Holier Than Now
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Hello, welcome to DT.

Since you asked, couple things:

Why are folks always so interested mostly in the opinions of other puppy buyers? How do you know the experience level of those puppy buyers?

How informed do you think their opinion might be?

For instance, over the years, working for a vet, and as a groomer, I'm always amazed at how many really big problems we have to point out to owners. Bad hips, bad knees, eye issues, temperament problems, missing or deformed toes, etc, etc, etc.

Also, if someone has a young puppy, it's going to be really rare for a hereditary disease to have shown itself as yet.

Usually you start seeing manifestations of those things at age 2 years and up.

As far as the breeder you're asking about--there is not one single thing on their website that leads me to be impressed at all with their ethics or knowledge.

They keep their dogs in concrete/chain link runs.

Good ethical breeders' dogs live in the home with the family.

They do not title their dogs nor compete with them, which implies several things--but most importantly--that they don't really *know* the animals they are breeding. They don't know how their bodies stand up to athletic endeavors, how their temperaments handle crowds and new sights and sounds and situations. They don't know how well their dogs train and learn. They don't know how their dogs stack up against others of their breed.

But, not knowing all that...they still go ahead and breed them, possibly passing on problems to the next generation and to all the families who purchase pups from them.

One last thing--how do they *know* there are "no hereditary problems in five generations of the dams' lines"?

If they are going to say that, I want to see the complete health testing, yearly, of each and every one of those dogs in all those pedigrees, and I want to see veterinary documents on age and cause of death on each dog, as well.

See how easy it is to talk a sales pitch, without really backing anything up?
 

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Please do not go with this breeder.

They have one stud that they breed to all of their bitches. None of their dogs are finished, meaning none have been trained and proven in any field. They say they have excellent pedigrees, but show none of them, or any of the health testing done besides what they claim to have done on the sire. I'd be curious to see the results from OFA, CERF, and date of his most recent Holter. One of the bitches is advertised as being "large for her breed." Breeding for anything other than conformationally correct dogs impairs the breed's ability to properly function, and is severely frowned upon. The "Health Guarantee" mentioned on the site is a farce, and is only valid for 72 hours. After this, you're SOL.

All of the photos show dogs in concrete dog runs. This is not how a Doberman should live, and absolutely should be no way to try to advertise your dogs to potential buyers. They seem very proud of this dog run facility they have created, although it is a travesty to see this and is very reminiscent of a puppy mill.

Also, they seem to have had two litters very recently. This leads me to believe that they are overbreeding.

Litters:
2/26 Ginger/Max
1/12 Cinnamon Star/Max

You want my honest opinion? Run far, far away. These dogs may turn out to be nice and sweet companions, but this "breeder" is a greeder who exploits their dogs for money. Do you want to put money in someone's pocket who does that? These bitches most likely spend their entire lives in these runs having litter after litter. No way for a "companion" to live.
 

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In addition to all thats mentioned above- these people have a paypal button to reserve a puppy. There is absolutely no way a reputable breeder would let any joe schmoe stake claim to one of their babies without thoroughly checking the potential owner first.

ETA: The link in Sam&Macksmom's signature is a wonderful place to start.
 
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joie de vivre
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I'd pass on that breeder. They're what I would consider pretty awful.

When I was looking for breeders I referred to the DPCA breeder referral list: DPCA | Breeder Referral

Be mindful that not all breeders on that list are spectacular, but it's a decent place to start.

I also contacted area/regional kennel clubs and asked for references of good, reputable breeders in my area. This is actually how I found my breeder of choice. A kennel club member was able to recommend her, along with other kennel club members who backed up her recommendation, so I knew I was headed in the right direction. I also contacted reputable training clubs in my region for referrals. People who are involved in and committed to showing and training with their dogs tend to be able to point you toward breeders whose dogs they've met and like. And most people I've met involved in showing and continually training their dogs are looking for good dogs bred to standard. They won't steer you to an unethical breeder whose dogs don't meet standard or can't perform in sports or have poor temperament.

If you're interested in schutzhund, contact a schutzhund club in your area and ask for referrals to Dobe breeders. I'm not involved in bite sports so I'm not much help here, but here's a link to the UDC's website. UDC They may be able to point you in the direction of some good clubs. (I may be way off on this one though. I don't know since I'm not involved in that sport and the clubs in my area are easily found anyway.)

If you want to focus on AKC conformation showing, contact an AKC kennel club in your area for recommendations. Even if there's not a Dobe breeder in their club, these people go to a lot shows and, since the dog world is a relatively small one, they inevitably know good Dobe breeders around. Here's a link to find one: AKC Club Search

Really, whatever you decide to go with - Dobe bred for working, show I would recommend you put a lot of focus on health and longevity in the pedigree. A conscientious breeder who does thorough health testing, knows the longevity in the pedigree, and is considerate in pairing their bitch with the right dog (not necessarily the dog they just happen to have) gives your pup the best chance at a healthy life.

Personally, I like to see the following health testing done on the breeding pair:
CERF
OFA or Penn Hip
vWD status
Cardio (annual holters and echoes are a MUST for me)
Thyroid
Liver

I also like breeders that title their dogs in some venue whether it be working or conformation. Ideally, I love when a breeder puts titles on both ends of a dog - conformation and sport. A conformation title will be at the front of the dog's name (CH or Ch) and a sport title will be at the end of the dog's name (CD, RE, MXJ, MACH, OTCH, BH, IPO, etc. are just a few examples - there are tons of sport titles), hence the phrase "titling both ends". I also prefer a breeder that temperament tests and these certifications will be shown with TT, WAC, ZTP (there may be more of these I've missed).

A lot goes into good breeding and it can be a lot of work to research and find the kind of breeder you're looking for and the right pup, but it's well worth it.
 

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Got mutt?
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Umm, to quote their website "Under no circumstances is the breeder to be held repsonsible for the dog's behavior". Does that mean they KNOW their dogs have unstable temperaments, and the are CYA in advance for all the unstable puppies they produce? Or do they not know their dog's temperaments at all, and are CYA just in case?
 
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BYB Hunter
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Haha the coin thing made me laugh....

"Excellent pedigrees and bloodlines"

OH YEAH? PROVE IT!!
 

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My beautiful was put down with DCM. SO HORRIBLE FOR HIM. UNFORTUNATELY E
WE LOVED HIM SO MUCH, we bought a second dog from Marlene. She has had surgery on her leg that was not coovered by insurance
Total cost for 2 sick Dodermans 30,000 total of heart break 100 percent
 
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