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I bought a choker yestarday and i would like to know if you guys already used one ? I know when i use choker that i dont pull on the leach i let the dog pull and she stop pulling after. It is dangerous for her ? She is 7 month and 50lb.
 

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Mom of the Herd
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I don't like or use one, I know I wouldn't want to be choked while walking so why would they. But I'm just a owner, so I let the Dob people that know more answer u. It's just my opinion.
 

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Just my op but I've found nylon slip chokes can be very dangerous to the dog's neck/throat in inexperienced hands. Chains a little less so because they don't slide as easy but because they are continuous they can hurt the dog, if the dog or handler pulls too hard. I've also seen choke chains hang up and not release correctly. When I have new handlers come to me for OB I recommend a Halti type training aid, or a Martingale type collar or even a prong depending on the handler, the temperament of the dog and what they want to accomplish.

Is there a way you can find a puppy class? A good one would be great for you and your pup.

Good luck and have fun :)
Sarah
 

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Chokers, like other collars, are a tool. If you use the tool correctly, many of these collars are signicantly safer for a dog that pulls than a flat collar. If they're not used correctly, you can hurt your dog. You need to use these types of collars along with TRAINING, they should not replace training.

If used properly, there's nothing wrong with them.
 

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You just need to be aware of how to properly use it. Please do research so you don't end up damaging your dogs neck... you should not let them pull on a slip collar, it will choke them. You use corrections with a slip collar, it is not self correcting like a prong.
 

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Alpha SheepDog
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A choker or snap collar is a training aid and not something to permently use.
Simple answer, if your constantly snapping the choke, then you are not using it properly or have to evaluate the walk.
I will use the choker for tightening up, ie: heel. Right now im getting great results with Nubis by using other walk methods. Hopefully I will not have to introduce it. My second dobe Lady
straightened right up when I pulled out the choker. She knew why I was using it and didn't want to displease her dad.
If you start out loose leash and stop and go technique, then when and if u use the choker, they will quickly learn that a tension free leash handle will either result in a Stop or a snap of collar.
Right now with my Nubis, if he feels me drop all of the leash slack, most of the time he will stop right away. Once I walk up,stop and step off with my left foot(closest to his head) and give the okay, he starts again walking. If 4 feet he does again, I play the same game. There is no physical restrain, only showing him what I want and expect of him. If he continues, then he gets put in sit/stay and has a time out hence no further walking.
 

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I've heard that some of the collars which restrain the dog with a loop around the dog's nose (halti?) are not recommended for a doberman because of the twisting pressure they tend to exert on the dog's neck when his head is turned to stop him. Dobermans have a tendency to neck problems and this could exacerbate those problems.

I don't know which collars that would include--maybe someone could chime in??
 

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Yeah, It's the halti collars that strain their neck, or any collar around their nose. Dobes can be very strong pullers, and when they do pull with a halti on, it can twist their neck in the wrong spot and you can end up with problems. I prefer to use a collar around the neck where its suppose to go lol not on the muzzle.
 

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Rocko has had a fur saver on since he was big enough to fit in them.(around 6 months) However I never used it to teach him to walk on lead. It is just the collar I prefer. And PLEASE dont refer to it as a "choker", its intended use is not to choke the dog. Its used to give the the dog vary degrees of pressure on the neck, as a corection, and if fitted properly will imediatly release said pressure when the handler relaxes the leash. I think corection collars can be a great tool or your worst enemy. I see them more for polishing a behavior that has already been formed and understood. Not as something to teach a brand new behavior. You can always spot the people who got a sliplead/fur-saver/ ect.. but never really taught the dog what they wanted of them.(as in how to walk on lead) They are the one's who have a dog who is gasping for air, all the while they are pushing forward fighting the tension of the leash. IT is painful and wrong to walk a dog this way and it make the person look like a fool.


I would first suggest find a good videon on youtube showing how to teach a dog the basic of healing in a positive manner. Then once this behavior is established, if their are any quirks that a training collar may be able to iron out, use it then. (after reading how to use it )
 

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Just to add my personal opinion on the subject since leash manners pop up so often and people are so quick to want to use corrections and negative reinforcemnet so soon.

1.To me leash manners,healing, ect.. have nothing to do with a dog and a leash. It has everything to do with a dog and a person and where the person wants that dog to be in relation to them. So I want my dog to be on my left hand side, front sholder in line withlegs/shoulders. This to me has nothing to do with a leash, it has to do with a place. I can walk, run tippie toe, whatever. the dog know where he needs to be, all I will do is re-issue the command(heel) when the pace is going to change. I can even ride a bike and he will say parallel to my shoulders. I taught Rocko where I wanted him to be first, then the whole leash manners thing was a non- issue.

2.When talking about using a negative reinforcement(a correction), you always need to think about the dog you are giving it to. Most the time a good stirn NO will do more for correcting the behavior, than a good pop of the leash. Every dog will respond differently. You as the owner/handler have to know your dog well enough to judge how sever/minor a correction you need to give. I ideally you want to only give as severe of a correction is needed to get the reaction you need from the dog. Every dog is different, my dog in particular is a weenie in most regards and it doesnt take much at all to get my point across.(usually verbal) Other dogs may need a physical correction to understand they are doing wrong. Regardless, you as the handler/owner have to assess and know how much or how little of a correction to give. If you cannot make this evaluation then you shouldn't be using corections on your dog.

Op this is not directed at you, just an oportunity to vent soem of my feeling on similar subject being talked about in your thread.
 

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I would recommend a prong collar over a choke chain any day in general. Choke chains I feel just cut to the windpipe too much, instead of even pressure throughout the neck. I also think it's easier to communicate with a prong.

your pup is still very young, I personally would not use a prong- especially on a female dobermann at this age.

Why don't you try a martingale for now?
 

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Second the opinion for a prong (later on). It looks "nasty", while a slip chain looks innocuous. The opposite is what is actually true. In a novices hands a chain can do WAY more damage than a prong.
 

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I've always seen these numbers come up whenever prong vs choke chains comes up. I've no idea of its accuracy, but.........

"A Study on Prong Collars was done in Germany:

100 dogs were in the study. 50 used choke and 50 used prong.

The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed.

Of the 50 which had chokes, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma.

Of the 50 which had prongs, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma."
 

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I've always seen these numbers come up whenever prong vs choke chains comes up. I've no idea of its accuracy, but.........
You know I've tried researching this EVERYWHERE anytime I see it, and everytime my search ends up with "made up statistic"

I'd say Prong myself get someone to show you how to properly fit one.
I'd also stay away from any "Halti" like leads, no need to put a head harness on a breed that can have neck issues.
 

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I 3rd the halti, not only does it snap the neck around, it also can cause eye problems.

IMO I like the martingale, I have one made with Italian leather and brass chain, looks quite nice on him :) I also use the prong ( I would wait till she is older and has more experience on the leash for this one). I have had nothing but positive outcomes with this training tool.
 

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A choke chain must be put on a certain way every time so it will work properly you do not let the dog pull it tight and keep it tight all it will do is choke the dog worse. You use a snapping motion tighten and a immediate release choke chain should slide back and be loose most of the time. You really need a professional to show you how to use a choke chain you do not want to damage the puppy s neck. You may have seen where allot of people use the big pinch collars which are not needed they come in smaller sizes. I personally think the big pinch collars look terrible I even have a micro pinch for my 13.2# Dachshund she pulled so much using a buckle collar all she did is choke her self all the time bought a micro pinch from Leerburg.com. They also show how to put a pinch collar on a dog if I remember right they also show how to put on a choke chain allot of their information is free.One thing if you do decide to get a pinch collar you need to get a light weight nylon choke and use it as a back up collar you put the pinch on add the nylon choke so if the pinch comes apart you will have back up.Good Luck
 

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You know I've tried researching this EVERYWHERE anytime I see it, and everytime my search ends up with "made up statistic"

I'd say Prong myself get someone to show you how to properly fit one.
I'd also stay away from any "Halti" like leads, no need to put a head harness on a breed that can have neck issues.
After posting that the study information here, I too did a little research--the quote is all over the internet, but always worded in exactly the same way (like a copy and paste would be) and there are no "feet" on it. You can only go so far back tracing the thing and then pfttt! It disappears.

One person mentions they had e-mailed Anne Marie Silverton twice (a dog trainer who is always quoted as the source) and received no answer. They also point out that this would be a long study (10 years or more) and would require substantial funding. Surely someone would be able to verify the information separately.

Rats. It was such a flashy statistic to use. THX, Jonesy'sMom
 

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I am an advocate of just answering the question, without giving any personal opinions, but in this case it might be warranted.

You still have an energetic puppy. Unless you are trying to be GySgt. Hartman and have to have your dog on a certain side, nose up at a 3 degree pitch, eyes facing forward, gut tucked in, chanting the cadence you demand of her...you are going to drive yourself nuts.

As long as you do it regularly, the pulling will get better over time. But if they want to pull a bit, especially a young puppy, who cares?

These 'tools' to me just seem like a quick fix answer for owners who have no patience.

There are simple and free things you can try. If your dog is pulling, stop until they stop, then continue. Still doing it, stop and abruptly change direction. Also, shorten the leash up a bit.

Try jogging in intervals, during the walk, if you can. The faster they get tired, the better walkers they will be, and once the start putting two and two together, the walks will be great from start to finish. If your puppy is walking good, give her praise and maybe a treat or two.

Myself, as long as my dogs aren't trying to do back flips while on a walk or jog, I generally don't care. I don't try to control their every waking moments, I enjoy them just being dogs; even if that means they pull on the leash a little.

All it takes is time and persistence. Remember, going on walks is like your doggy entering a new realm of sights and smells. Naturally they will get excited.

If I just pick up our male labs collar, he will start to get really excited cuz he knows it's walk time...even if I'm just picking it up to move it.

On that note, he can't have it on when he is too excited. He has to calm down first and I always let him come to me to get it put on.

I think you should just focus on persistence and you'll see it will get better over time. The more you demand from your dog, the longer it will take for it all to sink in. If you are the type that has to tell your dog to do something every five seconds, just to get them to do it or control them in some way, you probably should have gotten a statue of a dog or something, in the sitting position...that way, every time you tell them to sit...they are already there!

:tongue1:

Maybe try the silent technique? Get your puppy in the habit of sitting before you give a treat or whatever, using a verbal command if you have to, then gradually take the command part out and let them sit on their own.

If I say the word 'treat' now, my dobe pup will instantly put his butt on the ground. It's pretty funny actually. He knows he isn't getting anything unless he is relaxed. I do the same thing for just about everything, if he needs a correction or needs to be relaxed. On walks, if he is too hyper, I'll stop and stand in front of him until he makes eye contact with me. Then I give him the look of 'you need to chill out homey' and he will eventually get it and sit down, and then we can continue.

If it is a correction type involvement, I always try to snap my fingers before or during the correction. Kind of like clicker training, in a slight way. He is starting to recognize that a finger snap means he did something wrong or is not behaving appropriately. Again, I usually will let a dog be a dog, but if he is running back and forth on our leather wrap around...he gets a snap and sometimes a dave chappelle line. I like "Stig, you're about to find out...when keepin' it real goes wrong...'

But you probably have no idea what I'm talking about! :tongue1:

Oh, and one last thing, sorry for the novel...If all else fails, give your dog a purpose for a walk. Get some roller skates or roller blades and let her pull you. Maybe someone with a bit more experience can chime in with what age a dog/puppy can start adding some intensity to walks, as I have never done this with a puppy, always an adult. Get a vest or one of those dog saddles you can add weights to, or just use by itself. For a potentially still growing puppy, probably wouldn't want to add any weight, but the idea is to wear them out faster and give them a mission on the walk(s).

If you are handy at sewing you can probably make one yourself for cheap. Those roll up tool bags mechanics use. Some are nylon, canvas, etc. All's you need to do is attach some fleece or something soft for when it rests on the dogs back and attach some sort of straps or ties to anchor it down. I used a cheap life vest before. But with the tool pouches, you could simply use the weight of the tools for the energy draining part. Plus, if you came across a broken down car on your journey, you could help them fix it! POW!
 

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I would recommend a martingale collar (so your dog can't slip out of it) and some positive training for loose leash walking. Kikopup has a great video on how to clicker train loose leash walking on her youtube channel: kikopup's Channel - YouTube

I personally feel the risk of using a slip collar is very high with someone who is not an experienced trainer. OP, I would recommend enrolling in a puppy class if you haven't already.
 
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I put a choke chain plus a flat collar, on my pup from 8 weeks old.
At the young age, I use it for the sound that is generated "on the chain dragging lightly through the ring"

I will pull the chain with one finger lightly...to relay a correction / along with my voice pitch...when we play together. (example...when practice soft bite control)

Essentially, its the hardware & the noise generated, that I like about choke chains...used moderately
My dogs, know when I train with a choker...its show time - and are very content to wear 2 collars.
 
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