Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm trying to train Crixus not to pull on the leash, but he's so big now he ends up tugging me around half the time. I was looking into a choke collar like this:

Choke Collars

for both him and my other dog who is around 46lbs. Crixus was 38lbs last time he was at the vet I believe (1-2 weeks ago).

I hate the thought of using a choke collar but I need him to understand now that he can't pull and tug. When he starts to pull I stop immediately and put him in sit and then we start to walk again. He doesn't seem to get the hang of it. Most of the time I let him out to potty off-leash and follow him around. He comes straight back when called but if there is someone else outside or another dog he wants to either greet them or bark.

If there's a better option I'd like to hear of it, or any personal experience with choke collars like this one. Do they work?

Thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Does the leash being attached to the front really make a big impact? He has a regular harness but we stopped using it when we realized it was rubbing our other baby raw!

I've seen harnesses that are padded and look comfy on other dogs, but can't seem to find them online or at the store.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,959 Posts
take the time to train the dog. don't buy a collar like that unless you find a trainer (a real trainer) who can show you how to use it properly. same thing goes for a prong.

i've used an Easy Walk and all it did was cause our boy to go ass-over-teakettle when he decided to take off after a squirrel. it did not work well for us, and instead we trained him to walk at heel (or reasonably close to heel position).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I find the prong collars inhumane.

Also he gets trained, walked, and exercised every day thank you very much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,944 Posts
Kikopup on youtube has some great video's for teaching a loose leash walk :)

I walk mine on flat collars and a loose leash, and when they get to the end of the leash I turn around and walk the other way. I also reward them when they are walking where I want them to walk.

For times I need a little more control when my dog is in training, I use a front clipping harness. I have fleece lined front clipping harness from Xtradog. Im not sure if you have them across the pond, but mine is great as long as used correctly. Maybe you could take a normal front clipping harness and sew some fleece around it to make it rub less. Maybe it wasnt fitted correctly?

Its no fun being walked by a dog!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,959 Posts
I find the prong collars inhumane.

Also he gets trained, walked, and exercised every day thank you very much.
prongs are less inhumane than chokers. they give an immediate, pain-free correction without ripping out hair or actually choking the dog. i thought the same as you until i actually put a prong on my arm and pulled tight. it was annoying, not painful.

that said, there are lots of methods for training on a flat collar. the one Amelia suggested is what i used, and it worked fine for us. it meant walks were very short for awhile until he realized what we were asking him to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
455 Posts
I got one of these 6 Way Euro Adjustable Leashes and wore the strap backpack-style. It keeps the leash out of my hand and for whatever reason my dog won't try pulling me. I'm guessing because he has to pull against my bodyweight as opposed to my arm and grip strength.



It even has the same effect with my wife. Here she is walking our baby and dog. When she uses the other leash, he just tries to pull. This one, not so much.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Serahfina

·
Registered
Joined
·
895 Posts
I use a martingale style collar like your link shows with my dog. There is a big difference between them and the old style "choke" collars that were made entirely of chain. I found that it is an excellent tool for my boy in high distraction situations.

Falnfenex I think is misunderstanding that the collar you linked to is NOT a true choker, but is instead a martingale because you referred to it as a choke collar. Old style choke collars are NOT recommended, and can seriously injure if used incorrectly. Properly sized and adjusted martingales will allow correction without choking the dog.

I would also work on training him that at the first pull all movement forward stops (I make my boy sit if he tries to pull or yank repeatedly). I am teaching loose lead walking- if he puts any pressure on the leash, I either stop or reverse direction (walking backwards). I mainly use the martingale to ensure that he cannot slip his collar when we are out in public no matter how over excited he might get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,778 Posts
A martingale collar (the style of collar you linked to) is fine for teaching a puppy to walk nicely.

I teach walking as an active attention exercise... I do not correct for position so much as for loss of attention (when the dog's ahead of me, he CAN'T be paying attention!). Instead of simply stopping, when the dog moves ahead AT ALL I immediately and briskly begin to walk BACKWARDS. I walk backwards until I have eye contact and focus, and then either turn clockwise to go the other way (assuming the dog is on my left) or step to my right and begin going forward past the dog (getting the dog back in position) and continue in the direction I was originally going. I want to emphasize that you begin going backwards AS SOON AS the dog is even a couple of steps ahead.... do NOT wait until the dog is at the end of the leash!

I work HARD to maintain the puppy's attention on me, and I reward heavily (at least initially) for being in an acceptable position plus having eyes on me. If I see eyeballs, I reward NOW! Additionally, attention is not something that you train a dog to give, it is an engagement between a person and a dog (it is also the foundation of ALL training and relationship with a dog!)... the human has to do THEIR part and have active attention on the dog and keep connected (upbeat chatter, whatever).

You want to give the pup A LOT of leash... with the puppy standing next to you, the leash should loop down and touch the ground. You want to fold the leash at the appropriate place to give this length, put your right thumb through the loop you've made, close your fist around the leash, and place your fist on your abdomen... this hand DOES NOT MOVE... all corrections are the result of moving your whole body; your left hand does not touch the leash, it is for dispensing rewards... hold it high up on your chest, move it to the puppy to reward, back to your chest... you do not want to lead the puppy with food, nor do you want the puppy bouncing around trying to get your hand... this is why your left hand stays up under your neck.

When I WATCH people who tell me that their dog pulls, most often I see PEOPLE pulling on dogs, and dogs simply responding to being pulled. You can make a dog stay in place or you can teach a dog where that place is... if you make the dog, then you become responsible for where the dog is... if you teach the dog, then the DOG becomes responsible.

With puppies who cannot pay attention all that long, I will frequently come to a complete halt and verbally release the puppy: "Okay! Go sniff!" I stand stationary for some seconds while the puppy does puppy things (finding bunny poop, peeing, eating grass, sniffing, whatever) and then I restart the walk with "Let's go!" I am considerate about where I stop... puppies get to sniff the "good" places LOL! While we are in motion, it is on MY terms.

Until you get some training instilled, you will be much more successful if you can walk each of your dogs individually and give your full attention to that dog. One dog gets trained, while two dogs tend to simply get managed...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,959 Posts
Falnfenex I think is misunderstanding that the collar you linked to is NOT a true choker, but is instead a martingale because you referred to it as a choke collar. Old style choke collars are NOT recommended, and can seriously injure if used incorrectly. Properly sized and adjusted martingales will allow correction without choking the dog.
alright, i'll confess: i can't open that link at work. so i was going on the assumption it's a true choker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,778 Posts
I got one of these 6 Way Euro Adjustable Leashes and wore the strap backpack-style. It keeps the leash out of my hand and for whatever reason my dog won't try pulling me. I'm guessing because he has to pull against my bodyweight as opposed to my arm and grip strength.
This is EXACTLY what I meant by people pulling on dogs, and dogs reacting to being pulled! It is not that he chooses to not pull against your bodyweight, it is that you do not do all of the little automatic nagging tugs that ALL people do with hands on leash! If corrections are made with your torso, they become predictable due to body posture... dogs understand what you are doing and will be doing next, and accomodate to your motion. Hands are NOT predictable, and dogs don't know what to do. This is why I insist my students keep their hands motionless against their abdomen and do not touch the leash with the other hand (unless they need two hand together on the leash with both motionless against the abdomen).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,972 Posts
A martingale collar (the style of collar you linked to) is fine for teaching a puppy to walk nicely.

I teach walking as an active attention exercise... I do not correct for position so much as for loss of attention (when the dog's ahead of me, he CAN'T be paying attention!). Instead of simply stopping, when the dog moves ahead AT ALL I immediately and briskly begin to walk BACKWARDS. I walk backwards until I have eye contact and focus, and then either turn clockwise to go the other way (assuming the dog is on my left) or step to my right and begin going forward past the dog (getting the dog back in position) and continue in the direction I was originally going. I want to emphasize that you begin going backwards AS SOON AS the dog is even a couple of steps ahead.... do NOT wait until the dog is at the end of the leash!

I work HARD to maintain the puppy's attention on me, and I reward heavily (at least initially) for being in an acceptable position plus having eyes on me. If I see eyeballs, I reward NOW! Additionally, attention is not something that you train a dog to give, it is an engagement between a person and a dog (it is also the foundation of ALL training and relationship with a dog!)... the human has to do THEIR part and have active attention on the dog and keep connected (upbeat chatter, whatever).

You want to give the pup A LOT of leash... with the puppy standing next to you, the leash should loop down and touch the ground. You want to fold the leash at the appropriate place to give this length, put your right thumb through the loop you've made, close your fist around the leash, and place your fist on your abdomen... this hand DOES NOT MOVE... all corrections are the result of moving your whole body; your left hand does not touch the leash, it is for dispensing rewards... hold it high up on your chest, move it to the puppy to reward, back to your chest... you do not want to lead the puppy with food, nor do you want the puppy bouncing around trying to get your hand... this is why your left hand stays up under your neck.

When I WATCH people who tell me that their dog pulls, most often I see PEOPLE pulling on dogs, and dogs simply responding to being pulled. You can make a dog stay in place or you can teach a dog where that place is... if you make the dog, then you become responsible for where the dog is... if you teach the dog, then the DOG becomes responsible.

With puppies who cannot pay attention all that long, I will frequently come to a complete halt and verbally release the puppy: "Okay! Go sniff!" I stand stationary for some seconds while the puppy does puppy things (finding bunny poop, peeing, eating grass, sniffing, whatever) and then I restart the walk with "Let's go!" I am considerate about where I stop... puppies get to sniff the "good" places LOL! While we are in motion, it is on MY terms.

Until you get some training instilled, you will be much more successful if you can walk each of your dogs individually and give your full attention to that dog. One dog gets trained, while two dogs tend to simply get managed...
This is probably the most concise way I've seen this phrased :) Gave me some things to think about for working with Whiskey even! You should save this so you can just copy/past for next time someone has a dog that pulls!
 

·
Love the Nub
Joined
·
4,897 Posts
I use an easy-walk harness, and for *******, it's made all the difference. *******'s about 74-75 lbs, and I weigh around 112lbs, so training her to loose leash walk took every muscle in my body lol. The easy-walk harness really made a huge difference, and is what I currently use. With the easy-walk harness, I can walk ******* with one hand, or holding it with 2 fingers if I wanted to. She walks a little in front of me, I'm not one of those has to be by my side at all times, but she isn't pulling.

I like try every avenue before resorting to a prong collar. It's a personal preference. I don't like prong, chokes, e-collars, but that's just my opinion. If you do go with a prong or choke collar, then just make sure it's fitted correctly and do some research or seek advise on how to use it properly. Keep us updated!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
455 Posts
This is EXACTLY what I meant by people pulling on dogs, and dogs reacting to being pulled! It is not that he chooses to not pull against your bodyweight, it is that you do not do all of the little automatic nagging tugs that ALL people do with hands on leash! If corrections are made with your torso, they become predictable due to body posture... dogs understand what you are doing and will be doing next, and accomodate to your motion. Hands are NOT predictable, and dogs don't know what to do. This is why I insist my students keep their hands motionless against their abdomen and do not touch the leash with the other hand (unless they need two hand together on the leash with both motionless against the abdomen).
COOL!

My wife loves this leash, as do I. For both of us, the dog is so much more manageable with this leash on a basic flat collar then a regular leash and choke style collar. He's more of a follower than ever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mmctaq

·
Love the Nub
Joined
·
4,897 Posts
This isn't the best picture (sorry, taken from my iPhone), but ******* has on her easy-walk harness here. We had just arrived at the park, and all she wanted to do is run. There were also geese in the field to the left of us, and she was ready to go on Goose Patrol. With how excited she was and ready to run, she still isn't pulling on the leash. (shortly after I let her off the leash to run since we were the only ones there).

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,778 Posts
She walks a little in front of me, I'm not one of those has to be by my side at all times
Dogs have great peripheral vision, and humans are mechanical entities. A dog in proper position sees the shoulder turn and the hips swivel and adjusts to a turn as it happens. A dog in proper position sees the slight forward tilt and knows to pick up the pace, or sees the slight tilt back and knows to slow. Proper walking position is not arbitrary, it is what works to allow the dog to adjust to the human, and not hinder the human's motion. A couple of steps out of place means the dog looses the information that it needs to maintain position.
 

·
Love the Nub
Joined
·
4,897 Posts
Dogs have great peripheral vision, and humans are mechanical entities. A dog in proper position sees the shoulder turn and the hips swivel and adjusts to a turn as it happens. A dog in proper position sees the slight forward tilt and knows to pick up the pace, or sees the slight tilt back and knows to slow. Proper walking position is not arbitrary, it is what works to allow the dog to adjust to the human, and not hinder the human's motion. A couple of steps out of place means the dog looses the information that it needs to maintain position.
I appreciate the info, but ******* works just fine without being at my side at all times. She also has a natural instinct to protect, and she likes to sniff things out as we go. My opinion is that it's an outdated approach, but I respect your point of view. I think it also depends on the dog as well. The important thing is that she listens to my commands when we walk, and she's still attentive. We do great, but thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,437 Posts
I appreciate the info, but ******* works just fine without being at my side at all times. She also has a natural instinct to protect, and she likes to sniff things out as we go. My opinion is that it's an outdated approach, but I respect your point of view. I think it also depends on the dog as well. The important thing is that she listens to my commands when we walk, and she's still attentive. We do great, but thanks!
I don't think mmctaq was referring to a dog walking ahead as "dominant", which would be an outdated thought like you mentioned and what I think you were getting at in your post. What I got from her post, and completely agree with, is that walking closer to the human makes the dog more aware of the fact that the walk is about human and dog together, not about the dog and what the dog wants to do on the walk. Dogs that walk at the end of the leash do tend to be more consumed with the environment and less concerned about the owner.

Also, I use a front clip harness and find that it is much more effective with the dog at my side. When they walk ahead, it throws the harness off center and can cause rubbing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks everyone. I think i will get the Martingale's I posted. Sorry for the confusion! I would NEVER use a true-choker. I'm looking at some of the leads too but those will have to wait for a trip to the pet store.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top