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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As in what, in most peoples opinion is acceptable today?
I know breeders line breed. But how many generations back is considered acceptable?

I am asking because I have been following a two dobe breeders for a while now and I have felt that they are very outstanding in terms of their breeding choices/quality.

Until I just found out today one of them is breeding two dogs, and they both have the same sire.
Isnt that a little too close?
Or because they are both health tested that is still okay?

I thought reputable breeders were trying to expand their lines?
I feel like this is competely throwing me off and maybe these breeders arent as great as I thought.

I do not want to mention names as I dont like singling anyone out/dont want it to change the outcome of peoples answer.
 

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Sea Hag
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Linebreeding is just a form of genetic manipulation, on it's own it's neither bad nor good. It all depends on the lines involved whether it's a wise thing to do or not.

Breeding very closely will bring any hidden traits that are lurking to the surface, so the breeder had better know their lines pretty darned well.
 

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same sires ok in the hands on someone that knows the dog and all the pros/cons.. must be outstanding. Ive heard of successful father/daughter matings but I am not into brother/sister matings thats just TOO close.
 

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As in what, in most peoples opinion is acceptable today?
I know breeders line breed. But how many generations back is considered acceptable?

I am asking because I have been following a two dobe breeders for a while now and I have felt that they are very outstanding in terms of their breeding choices/quality.

Until I just found out today one of them is breeding two dogs, and they both have the same sire.
Isnt that a little too close?
Or because they are both health tested that is still okay?

I thought reputable breeders were trying to expand their lines?
I feel like this is competely throwing me off and maybe these breeders arent as great as I thought.

I do not want to mention names as I dont like singling anyone out/dont want it to change the outcome of peoples answer.
This breeding is not a linebreeding it is inbreeding. Line breeding usually 2 - 3 generations back (grandfather to grand daughter, uncle to niece, etc)

Inbreeding and linebreeding can be and has been used to improve stock and firmly cement breeding geno/phenotypes. It can double up on the best traits of the dogs, but also on the worst.

I have considered a half bro/half sister breeding before because of the traits I wanted to see cemented in the breed.

With a tight breeding such as this, the progeny should be taken back out to a either complete outcross to bring back a bit of diversity or to an out cross but line bred dog with traits already set.

It really depends on the goals of the breeding and the plan of the breeder. If they have no goal or no plans, then I would walk away. It is something that needs to be thought of and planned for for sure.
 

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It's not a bad or good thing in itself, you can't say with black and white clarity that if some one does it they're a bad breeder. Yes, genetic variety can be a good thing, but some times line breeding can "solidify" good traits in the dogs.

The results can be great or they can be a disaster... just like with any breeding, you need to know what you are doing. There can be a very good reason for doing a close line breeding, or in a case of a byb who really isn't putting much thought into the process it can be all that's available.

You should ask the breeders what is the reason for the breeding. Then judge their reasoning.
 

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Just wondering. My new pup's dam & sire are first cousins; a planned breeding by an experienced breeder. I always thought that was a linebreeding or am I mistaken?
 

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Strong Ears
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As in what, in most peoples opinion is acceptable today?
I know breeders line breed. But how many generations back is considered acceptable?

I am asking because I have been following a two dobe breeders for a while now and I have felt that they are very outstanding in terms of their breeding choices/quality.

Until I just found out today one of them is breeding two dogs, and they both have the same sire.
Isnt that a little too close?
Or because they are both health tested that is still okay?

I thought reputable breeders were trying to expand their lines?
I feel like this is competely throwing me off and maybe these breeders arent as great as I thought.

I do not want to mention names as I dont like singling anyone out/dont want it to change the outcome of peoples answer.
Line breeding is breeding to one (1) particular dog in a pedigree multiple times to intensify the qualities of that particular dog. The breeding that you are suggesting is definitely In-breeding. As stated by others, this is something you would only do if you are very knowledgable about the past generations of the pedigree. This can cement desired traits in your dogs, but it can also bring up and cement undesired traits too. In-breeding is not something to be taken lightly. If you know the breeder to be reputable and trying to improve the Breed than In-breeding can be useful, but most breeders tend to line breed.
 

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The only thing that is certain is that hind sight is 20/20. There are all kinds of "rules" to justify just about any combination that a breeder wants to propose whether inbreed, linebreed, or outcross. If it works, they are wonderful breeders, if it doesn't, all of the arm-chair quarterbacks will tell you that they knew that particular paring would not work.

I find it interesting that many breeders bemoan the small gene pool, but then these same breeders inbreeed/linebreed on their favorite dog or run to the flavor of the month. Personally, I find that breeding too close on a popular sire more often than not decreases the quality of the get and gives you exaggerated traits, but that is just my opinion.
 

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This breeding is not a linebreeding it is inbreeding. Line breeding usually 2 - 3 generations back (grandfather to grand daughter, uncle to niece, etc)

Inbreeding and linebreeding can be and has been used to improve stock and firmly cement breeding geno/phenotypes. It can double up on the best traits of the dogs, but also on the worst.

I have considered a half bro/half sister breeding before because of the traits I wanted to see cemented in the breed.

With a tight breeding such as this, the progeny should be taken back out to a either complete outcross to bring back a bit of diversity or to an out cross but line bred dog with traits already set.

It really depends on the goals of the breeding and the plan of the breeder. If they have no goal or no plans, then I would walk away. It is something that needs to be thought of and planned for for sure.
I would type out a post... But I'd just be repeating everything you just said- good post!
 

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I most likely wouldn't get a puppy out of a litter this closely bred, but it probably wouldn't change my opinion of the breeder too much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thank you for the very knowledgeable responses. I understand better why breeders would do this

I find it interesting that many breeders bemoan the small gene pool, but then these same breeders inbreeed/linebreed on their favorite dog or run to the flavor of the month.
This is how I feel about it at the moment. These siblings are their 'top' dogs at the moment, and I feel like they are striving more for breeding more show winners now instead of whats better for the breed later.
 
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