Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,374 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This morning Bumpy went to the surgical specialist regarding his neutering. I felt very comfortable at the center and very happy with the vet. She was extremely thorough and very easy to communicate with. She said that she had never seen a dog as young as him with hypothyroidism and wanted me to take him to the internist to have a complete thyroid panel done (which is what many of you suggested). She said the reason that he was probably on an herbal rememdy for his thyroid as opposed to Soloxine is because he is already lean and very energetic and that normally thyroid meds would cause him to lose weight and be more energetic. She said he shows no physical symptoms but that sometimes there are none. Without first speaking to my regular vet she could only assume this is why. Since his vWD factor was so low they want to transfuse him with 4 liters of fresh plasma (as he is 100lbs) and this would take approximately 5 hours. The surgery would then be done immediately after the transfusion was complete and he would stay a few days. She said that the fresh plasma in his case was more effective than cryprecipitate and they have it there at the facility. The crazy part is that each liter of plasma is $300 and he needs four. With the rest of the costs factored in this neuter is going to cost between $2,500 and $3,500 - that was the range. She suggested that his surgery be done before he turns 2 because there are more fibrous formations in the testicles after about 2 years of age.

I have scheduled him for a complete thyroid panel next week.....those of you that have been so helpful can I get your feedback.
 

·
Extraordimary
Joined
·
4,985 Posts
I hate to tell you this, but one of my puppy owners was trying to have his vWD affected female spayed and they gave her plasma beforehand. Sent her right into anaphylactic shock and they nearly lost her on the table before they did anything other than that.

The owner brought her back to me, I took her to my cropping vet that often does my spays and neuters too, and he spayed her with no trouble and no hoopla for $85.

In her case, though, she is not a clinical bleeder. She is genetically affected but has never had a bleeding episode.

I'd want to make sure your dog isn't going to have a reaction to the plasma.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,374 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Oh wow.....how do you make sure that your dog is not allergic to the plasma before the surgery? This is really stressing me out as you can imagine. I know that I need to neuter him, my gut is just telling me not to. This is really scary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,854 Posts
Your dog needs to undergo blood typing (both major and minor crossmatching), and the blood products should already be typed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,374 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Kim,
Can you explain what that means? Do you mean what type of blood he has? I am not sure I understand.
Lana
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,159 Posts
Do you have anyone in the area that does surgery laproscopically (sp?)? One of my vets does spays and tack that way (as well as liver biopsies, found that out last week), not sure about neuters, but from what I hear, less bleeding. I did not see your original post but all thyroid testing IMO should be complete panels. My boy was 1 ½ years when he was diagnosed. If we did a simple T4, that a number of vet screen, he would have been “fine”. His thyroid stimulating hormone TSH or his auto antibodies (can’t remember which) was sky high. His system was working extremely hard just to keep up. Are you basing his bleeding on being affected? Have you done a coagulation test or any other clotting factor screening? You may be repeating yourself, sorry…
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,374 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sue,
I am having a complete thyroid panel done on Saturday. The specialist called my primary vet and they both decided to take him off of the holistic thyroid medicine until results of the complete panel are done as apparently his first set of results were normal and his second were not when he had the ulcer.
Regarding his clotting, a nail clip (ouch, I know) was also done and the specialist wants to do the bmbt when he is sedated.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,884 Posts
lanabana said:
Sue,
I am having a complete thyroid panel done on Saturday. The specialist called my primary vet and they both decided to take him off of the holistic thyroid medicine until results of the complete panel are done as apparently his first set of results were normal and his second were not when he had the ulcer.
Regarding his clotting, a nail clip (ouch, I know) was also done and the specialist wants to do the bmbt when he is sedated.
Lanabana,

The varying results from the thyroid test (were those full panels or just T4?) may have been a direct result of the other thing going on--the ulcer. Evidently from what my vets have said, T4 results can (as can many hormone measurements) be greatly affected by other conditions. It's one of the reasons that full panels are more informative than just T4 tests.

That nail clip to check for for clotting is a crock! The bmbt is MUCH better and not painful in the fashion that clipping a nail short enough to make it bleed is.

One of my dogs is typed and cross typed and even though we've never had to use him he is available as a donor dog in the clinic where I work if we need him. I got the full lecture about dog blood typing from one of our vets who used to work a lot in emergency clinics. Dog blood types are every bit as complex as human blood types--perhaps even more so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
421 Posts
I wouldn't risk it. I'm worried enough when my dogs go in for an alter when nothing is wrong with them or there are any extra risks.Hell-I never fixed byron because I didn't like the way he came out of it after getting a lump on his side removed. The vet had no good explanation so I decided he's never going under again unless its an emergency.

Our foster goes in to get fixed the 27th and thank god he should be just fine and so far there is no extra reason to worry.

Whatever you decide I hope your pup comes through ok.

Edit***Do you feel you wouldn't be able to keep him under your control if he wasn't fixed? Its definately a little more work but I don't think its anything undoable. Of course if your a dog park tpye person or like to let your dog roam it would not be a good idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,374 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The varying results WERE just from the T4 test from what I can tell from reading his records. He will have a complete thyroid panel done this Saturday and hopefully I can get to the bottom of this issue and treat it accordingly. The neutering has become a really difficult decision for me. With my other two, they are rescues, so I picked them out at the pound, they got spayed/neutered, came home and were fine. With Bumpy being a purebred Doberman, of course I have learned about all the tests he needed to take...etc....and now here I am, not knowing what I should do. My reason for neutering - 1) For prostate health and to prevent possible health problems later. 2) Obviously on hikes, etc, I need to be more careful that he doesn't get territorial, etc. 3) Any possible aggression problems that this may tame.
I like to take him places to run with my other two, dog beach, hiking etc....off leash. But I never take him without my boyfriend anyway because I don't feel comfortable with three dogs running loose and having to count on other dogs owners as well to watch their own dogs.
Reason not to neuter - the obvious - I am afraid of losing him due to complications. This supercedes anything else. My gut is telling me not to do it - I just have never had a non altered dog so am not sure just how determined they get trying to get loose to a female dog. I honestly have not encountered many non fixed dogs at all - but coyotes have been coming down from the hills and wandering down the streets of Los Angeles (lol - so weird for a big city). I don't mean to ramble, I just really am at a loss at what to do. Do I neuter to prevent problems later? Or do I not and just play it safe?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
421 Posts
I usually say go with your gut but if you think he won't get to enjoy life as much as your other two then maybe just keep getting the tests done.

I've had unaltered dogs around all my life and never an opps litter-or even mating-and I have never had an issue with dogs being "too much to handle" like I often hear about unaltered dogs.
Of course it is a little more difficult but the only issue I have ever had is people propositioning my dog while we are out.

Byron is seven now. He has never run off after a female-he behaved around my female before she got fixed-you couild tell he didn't like it but he didn't bark and whine and go nutts constantly. I let him off leash-hes never not come to me when I have called. But I also don't take him anywere were I expect other dogs to be. Not even so much because he is unaltered but because people get scared seeing a dobe running loose and if any fight was to happen god knows the dobes getting blamed. I'm not a big fan of dog parks and offleash parks anyway so its not that big of a deal.

How I looked at it was if his prostate ever did go bad I would get it done-but untill then he is going to run around like the happy nutt he is and I'm not oging to worry about it-hopefully he'll never have a problem and won't need to go under again. I jsut couldn't risk it.

But you have to remember there is always that chance someone will leave the door open and he'll get out or soemthing else will happen. I've been hearing stories about unaltered dogs getting stolen again lately and thats always something I've worried about having a breed that some hoodrats are interested in.

If its a female its easier since you can say if she gets knocked up I'll go get her fixed-since its the male you would ahve to relay on the females owners judgment and thats the hard part. You probally wouldn't have final say in that matter and thats the hard part for me-thank god its never come up.

Its not an easy decision.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,558 Posts
Go with your gut, maybe it is my gut projecting an un-unaltered male isn't evil, in responsible hands it is not a problem, and remember if issues arise you have Doberman Talk friends to Help.
I would hate for you to follow through and it falls, and screams in your face what if. I guess I am just a worry wart, yet I have to say I have had one altered and one un-altered and the one with the en-suite removed was by far the most problematic. Wish you the best for you and your dobie pal, whatever you decide ultimately it is your dog.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top