[SaundraU]

Okay so I am mostly a lurker and refer to this site for lots of information but don't post. I know we may have to travel -

We are looking for a breeder currently. The one I had picked out from KY (and yes you guys do reccomend her) had a litter but does not have a B/T Male that is not already spoken for so I am back in the hunt and looking for some ideas from you guys.

We know we want a B/T Male puppy. He will be a companion to my blue male (will be 6 mnths old on the 10th). BTW that is another question - I've had people tell me that you can't have 2 males dobes in the same household - thoughts on this?

We had a previous B/T that we lost after undergoing obstruction surgury at age 7. We had him from about 9 weeks from the Humane Society.

Our plan with the boys will be agility. Currently our little guy Moose (a rescue dobie, his facebook page is Moose Urbacke) has been thru Puppy Kindergarten, he will go in OB 1 soon (we started but a work conflict took me out for 3 of the weeks so we talked to our trainer and we are starting over). He and I go on walks daily (ranging from 3-6 miles), he gets TOTW food and we love him to death. We rent a townhouse and or rental co has been great about our last dobie and our current but are looking for our own place.

So with that all said we are looking for recomendations for breeders who a) health test their dogs, b) have a good even temperment in the dam and sire to be passed to the puppies C) have done something with thier dogs other then just breed for breedings sake D) want to keep in touch with us and watch the puppy grow and be happy.

Saundra

 

[kwhite30]

Wait Im confused? You already have a puppy and want another one now? I think you might want to hold off on getting second one. You're current puppy is still very young.

I'd get a female. Male-male aggression is very common with this breed. They could be great friends one minute and the next you'll come home to a horrible aftermath from a fight. It's honestly not worth it and most breeders won't put another male in a home with a male already in it.

 

[Sam1491]

Wait Im confused? You already have a puppy and want another one now? I think you might want to hold off on getting second one. You're current puppy is still very young.

I'd get a female. Male-male aggression is very common with this breed. They could be great friends one minute and the next you'll come home to a horrible aftermath from a fight. It's honestly not worth it and most breeders won't put another male in a home with a male already in it.

This! There are few people who successfully have two males and most are breeders or working dog people who have them on a strict no contact crate and rotate schedule. Fights happen fast and can have life ending consequences.
Also you will find it hard to find a reputable breeder who will sell you a) another male with one in the house already and b) another puppy while your dog is under at least 1.5-2 years of age. Love the puppy you have now and let him grow and become mature, if you still want another look for a female once he is older.

 

[jmradcliff]

i agree with kwhite30. do not get another male; get a female companion for your boy. male to male aggression is very common in working breeds (dobermans, bullmastiffs, cane corsos, rotties, etc.) and you will notice that most working dog breeders/owners do not keep more than one male because they have to 'live separately' on the same property if there are multiple males (intact or not). also, you may want to wait until your boy is more mature, maybe 2 years old or so, because if you get another puppy now, the two dogs will tend to bond more with each other and bond less with their owners.

 

[SaundraU]

Kwhite30,

Yes we are looking for a second right away as one will be mine and one my husbands. Of course we will share the responsibilites but we want them to grow up toghether. Figuring that most breeders are probably just getting litters on the ground it will be at least 2 more months till we would be picking up the new pup and our new guy will be at 8 mnths old. Plus all the time I will be spending researching it may be another 2-4 months or more before we are even ready. But something for us to think about.

Good to know and I did wonder about that.

Saundra

 

[jmradcliff]

thought of this after i posted...

you may want to cut down on your long walks with your current boy. being a larger breed, walks of 3-6 miles at such a young age can be detrimental to his bones and joints as he matures...especially if you are walking him on hard surfaces (concrete, pavement, sidewalks). typically the rule of thumb is to not walk (and definitely do not run) a large breed dog for more minutes than he is old in weeks. so if you have a 6 month old puppy (in your case), you should not be walking him for more than 24 minutes.

 

[kwhite30]

Kwhite30,

Yes we are looking for a second right away as one will be mine and one my husbands. Of course we will share the responsibilites but we want them to grow up toghether. Figuring that most breeders are probably just getting litters on the ground it will be at least 2 more months till we would be picking up the new pup and our new guy will be at 8 mnths old. Plus all the time I will be spending researching it may be another 2-4 months or more before we are even ready. But something for us to think about.

Good to know and I did wonder about that.

Saundra

Thanks for clearing that up. I do urge you to wait and really research a lot of reputable breeders which you seem to be doing and research having two puppies at once. I know I already said this but realize a lot of breeders won't sell you a male pup with one in the house and may not even sell you one since your current puppy will still be very young. 8 months is still too young. I think it's on the puppy corner but there's a great thread on having two puppies and the challenges that arise. Even if you wait till you're current boy is 1.5 would be much better then getting one now and please please consider getting a female. Do lots and LOTS of research on Malle-male aggression. Its very uncommon to have two males coexist together without constant crate rotation and strict schedules and even then something terrible could happen.

Also wanted to ask, why do you need one for each of you right now? I ask that nicely but I really wouldn't rush it.
Good luck!

 

[sam&macksmom]

No reputable breeder will sell you a male puppy if you currently have a male (doberman) in your household.

Male/male aggression is very real and can be very serious. Why risk it and set the dogs up for failure?

http://www.dobermantalk.com/dt-educational-archive/10315-male-male-aggression.html

 

[Sam1491]

Thanks for clearing that up. I do urge you to wait and really research a lot of reputable breeders which you seem to be doing and research having two puppies at once. I think it's on the puppy corner but there's a great thread on having two puppies and the challenges that arise. Even if you wait till you're urgent boy is 1.5 would be much better then getting one now and please please consider getting a female. Do lots and LOTS of research on Malle-male aggression. Its very uncommon to have two males coexist together without constant crate rotation and strict schedules and even then something terrible could happen.

Good luck!

I can atest to this, I don't own two males, my boss does, they are entirely separated from each other 100% off the time, but accidents can happen in the most structured of homes.

Letting one in, he in normal energetic fashion jumped into a door which then broke open to the room the other male was in. He was on his way back when he noticed and ran back to investigate the "hole in the wall", and I couldn't catch him in time. Luckily I got to them and got them apart before damage was done and they were only spitty. Don't ask me how I alone held two determined to kill each other males apart and managed to move them so that one was outside and the other could be locked away again, all while a bitch that was in the house at the same time ran around thankfully listening to my leave it command and staying out of the fight, I don't remember but I know I did it.

What if I hadn't gotten them apart? What if they had done damage to each other? Or more to the house than a broken planter? What if one or both died? What if I got minimally or seriously injured? What if the bitch had gotten in on it and been injured or killed too?

I am thankful you are asking about the m-m-a and are wanting to learn but in my own personal opinion I would say there is nothing to think about, I commend the people that can manage it, but it is not for anyone without a massive amount of experience and who needs for working or breeding purposes to have two males.

ETA: This is not the only story like this, many others who both can and can't handle having multiple males have had accidents happen, as samandmacksmom said, why risk it?

 

[kwhite30]

I can atest to this, I don't own two males, my boss does, they are entirely separated from each other 100% off the time, but accidents can happen in the most structured of homes.
Letting one in, he in energetic fashion jumped into a door and broke it open to the room the other male was in. He was on his way back when he noticed and ran back to investigate the "hole in the wall", and I couldn't catch him in time. Luckily I got to them and got them apart before damage was done and they were only spitty. Don't ask me how I alone held two determined to kill each other males apart and managed to move them so that one was outside and the other could be locked away again, all while a bitch that was in the house at the same time ran around thankfully listening to my leave it command and staying out of the fight, I don't remember but I know I did it.

What if I hadn't gotten them apart? What if they had done damage to each other? Or more to the house than a broken planter? What if one or both died? What if I got minimally or seriously injured? What if the bitch had gotten in on it and been injured or killed too?

I am thankful you are asking about the m-m-a and are wanting to learn but in my own personal opinion I would say there is nothing to think about, I commend the people that can manage it, but it is not for anyone without a massive amount of experience and who needs for working or breeding to have two males.

Id like to make sure the OP knows this is your boss and you who have a lot of experience not just some random person.

Their are some people on here who make it work BUT they'll share their stories with you and explain that it's not always the easiest situation and who also have a TON of experience. It's A LOT of work and you need to prepare yourself for the worst possible situation. I've heard of people whose males fought until one was dead. The risk is too high. It's not worth it honestly.

 

[PatchworkRobot]

There is a breeder recommended by DT that will sell a male puppy to a home that already has a male puppy? I find that hard to believe.

Please consider a female puppy. I've never dealt with a fight due to male/male aggression in dobermans but I have dealt with and broken up dog fights before. They are frightening, dangerous, and not always easy to break up. If you really love your dog (and future dog) is it worth risking their well being?

 

[SaundraU]

thought of this after i posted...

you may want to cut down on your long walks with your current boy. being a larger breed, walks of 3-6 miles at such a young age can be detrimental to his bones and joints as he matures...especially if you are walking him on hard surfaces (concrete, pavement, sidewalks). typically the rule of thumb is to not walk (and definitely do not run) a large breed dog for more minutes than he is old in weeks. so if you have a 6 month old puppy (in your case), you should not be walking him for more than 24 minutes.

jmradcliff I also had some concerns when we first got him so I did review the walks with both the trainer and our vet. We defiantly don't do the running at all however what we have run into is that with less miles on the walks he has energy that bubbles up into distructive behavior. Both the vet and trainer have said as long as he is setting the pace and we are watching him for any signs of stress that we are ok. We had one day where he was sore and the next day he was in at the vet for xrays and all shows clean (this was about a month ago). He'd also been at puppy daycare so they think he may have just slipped and sprained something cuz the next day he was back to himself and was a handful to keep quite for the next 5 per the vets instructions.

 

[Sam1491]

Id like to make sure the OP knows this is your boss and you who have a lot of experience not just some random person.

Their are some people on here who make it work BUT they'll share their stories with you and explain that it's not always the easiest situation and who also have a TON of experience. It's A LOT of work and you need to prepare yourself for the worst possible situation. I've heard of people whose males fought until one was dead. The risk is too high. It's not worth it honestly.

Thanks! I did go back and bold that part as it is one highly important part among many, like several people here (patchwork, zeldarules) I work at a daycare/pet resort so (not that they are common) but fights are things we have dealt with.

It is not fun, it is hard, and the risk for all involved is immensely high!

 

[SaundraU]

There is a breeder recommended by DT that will sell a male puppy to a home that already has a male puppy? I find that hard to believe.

Please consider a female puppy. I've never dealt with a fight due to male/male aggression in dobermans but I have dealt with and broken up dog fights before. They are frightening, dangerous, and not always easy to break up. If you really love your dog (and future dog) is it worth risking their well being?

PatchworkRobot - defiantly not which is why I asked.

 

[SaundraU]

Thanks for clearing that up. I do urge you to wait and really research a lot of reputable breeders which you seem to be doing and research having two puppies at once. I know I already said this but realize a lot of breeders won't sell you a male pup with one in the house and may not even sell you one since your current puppy will still be very young. 8 months is still too young. I think it's on the puppy corner but there's a great thread on having two puppies and the challenges that arise. Even if you wait till you're current boy is 1.5 would be much better then getting one now and please please consider getting a female. Do lots and LOTS of research on Malle-male aggression. Its very uncommon to have two males coexist together without constant crate rotation and strict schedules and even then something terrible could happen.

Also wanted to ask, why do you need one for each of you right now? I ask that nicely but I really wouldn't rush it.
Good luck!

Kwhite30,

Based on what you guys have said I will be talking to my husband about a female instead of a male, definatly don't want any issues there.

We both are very active with our current pup, in addition tot he walks we do the dog parks, parades with our rescue group, and tomorrow we start a drill team, with that going on we would like to do it together and with a puppy each (that may not come across quite I how I want it too). Sometime the written word is so hard to enfuse with the desired results.

 

[PatchworkRobot]

I will add - I have two males in my household right now. There is my boy and then I got a roommate that also had a male doberman. I went back and forth on the roommate moving in simply because of her dog.

Both Dreizehn (mine) and Duke (hers) are great dogs that have never met an enemy, two or four legged. They met in a neutral area and were fine. I've watched Duke interact with other dogs and he is very non-confrontational. He doesn't play, he doesn't run with other dogs either - he likes to do his own thing. That being said, Dreizehn and Duke are RARELY together. When they are there are no treats or toys around and they are watched like hawks, even when they're only in the same area for a matter of seconds. Again, neither dog has ever met an enemy but I still worry and I have to be on my toes watching them at all times because a fight can break out of absolutely nowhere with no signs given - and the constant watching and slightly worry is exhausting.

If you're in or near MN but were looking at a breeder in KY does that mean you're willing to travel/ship? If so there are a whole slew of amazing breeders (though I don't know who is having a litter soon) that you could talk to. I can't actually think of any breeders off the top of my head who are in MN but I"m sure somebody else can.

 

[kwhite30]

Kwhite30,

Based on what you guys have said I will be talking to my husband about a female instead of a male, definatly don't want any issues there.

We both are very active with our current pup, in addition tot he walks we do the dog parks, parades with our rescue group, and tomorrow we start a drill team, with that going on we would like to do it together and with a puppy each (that may not come across quite I how I want it too). Sometime the written word is so hard to enfuse with the desired results.

I understand

I have to say I appreciate you listening to us. We would all hate to see something happen to your current pup and future one. I hope you will get a female. They are just as great!

Your puppy seems to have a fun life. I hope it all works out and I will say I do hope you wait a little bit longer. One advantage to having a little bit of an older dog is they can help raise the younger one. So just think about it.

BTW we need pics of your puppy you have now please!

 

[SaundraU]

Thanks! I did go back and bold that part as it is one highly important part among many, like several people here (patchwork, zeldarules) I work at a daycare/pet resort so (not that they are common) but fights are things we have dealt with.

It is not fun, it is hard, and the risk for all involved is immensely high!

Ummm now that brings another question, when he is older do I need to stop going to doggy daycare? It is a no cage boarding facility - which I absolutly love and so does he - but there are 3 other dobes there the same days he is and at least 1 is a male...........

 

[SaundraU]

I will add - I have two males in my household right now. There is my boy and then I got a roommate that also had a male doberman. I went back and forth on the roommate moving in simply because of her dog.

Both Dreizehn (mine) and Duke (hers) are great dogs that have never met an enemy, two or four legged. They met in a neutral area and were fine. I've watched Duke interact with other dogs and he is very non-confrontational. He doesn't play, he doesn't run with other dogs either - he likes to do his own thing. That being said, Dreizehn and Duke are RARELY together. When they are there are no treats or toys around and they are watched like hawks, even when they're only in the same area for a matter of seconds. Again, neither dog has ever met an enemy but I still worry and I have to be on my toes watching them at all times because a fight can break out of absolutely nowhere with no signs given - and the constant watching and slightly worry is exhausting.

If you're in or near MN but were looking at a breeder in KY does that mean you're willing to travel/ship? If so there are a whole slew of amazing breeders (though I don't know who is having a litter soon) that you could talk to. I can't actually think of any breeders off the top of my head who are in MN but I"m sure somebody else can.

PatchworkRobot - that sounds like more stress then we would want

Defiantly travel - I would not want to ship, we want to go down and meet the breeder, the dame (and Sire if possible) and see where the pups were raised. I trully believe this can tell you alot of information about a puppy and its start in life.

 

[PatchworkRobot]

Ummm now that brings another question, when he is older do I need to stop going to doggy daycare? It is a no cage boarding facility - which I absolutly love and so does he - but there are 3 other dobes there the same days he is and at least 1 is a male...........

I'll be honest, cage-less boarding/daycare has always worried me regardless of the dogs around. Just like people, dogs need a break from each other and I never thought that being in the same vicinity as other dogs ALL DAY LONG was a good idea. I worked at a place where each dog had a room and they played in their play group multiple times a day for a good period of time - but not all day long. My dobe, when a puppy, went to a daycare that had the dogs playing all day with a 2 hour "nap time" mid day. I LOVE daycare and don't think you should stop your boy from going... but I would, personally, consider a place that allows the dogs to have a break from one-another.

I know plenty of male dobes that go to daycare - my boy included and I've never had an issue. I think that a big difference, and this is just personal opinion, is that the dobes aren't around the other male dogs at all times plus, there aren't things like toys to get in a tiff over. Not that a fight isn't possible, but I think it's much less likely when they aren't male dogs that are around 24/7-ish. Plus, theoretically, the daycare should be assessing each dog that comes in so your dog is playing with other even-tempered pups.