Breeder question

2314 Views 7 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Murreydobe, Feb 24, 2012

DobieNC

Discussion Starter · Feb 23, 2012

A little background first and if i get the details wrong i will fix them as my wife knows the story a lot better than I do.

Our first doberman, Sampson was purchased(hate that word) 9 years ago. he is beautiful red very healthy. he has had one tplo surgery, other than that and some lipomas he is a happy healthy boy. We got him from Amaris breeders when they were in California, I believe at that time Brandi was the owner. My wife did her research (as she has always loved dobies) and we found Sampson (Amaris' Chocolate Mousse). Brandi was very forthcoming, very responsive both pre-post purchase and we had no problems both with her and with sam's lineage (for as much as we knew then).

4 years ago we decided sam needed a sibling. Once again we went to Amaris but this was after the name and stock had been sold to the new breeder von.Amaris. Zeus (Amaris' Mount Olympus) appeared to have all the right lineage and his papers were fine. We had out vet check both him and his lineage out. Things seemed fine. Zeus was never sick. Sure he had a few stiches from rough housing with Sam but nothing was intentional. Sadly Zeus died from DCM about a month ago. Until then my wife and I were clueless about DCM. We've had time to learn about it and wish we never had.

While researching DCM I found dobermantalk.com and I also checked in on Amaris, in case we wanted to get another baby (we do). apparently vonAmaris is not what they seem to be and from everything I can gather on this site are not very well respected as breeders or their stock.

My question (I know get to it) is while looking at their site it appears that the name and/or stock may be back in the original owners hands again. if this is so I would not hesitate to get a baby from them. Can anyone shed some light on the situation with that breeder? Should I just run the other way? And if so please help me to find a good breeder who will bless my house with another wonderful dobie.

Thanks, Drew

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brw1982

· #2 · Feb 23, 2012 (Edited)

If this Amaris has been located in Missouri around Salem (last I knew - as of ~3 years ago) you'll want to stay far, very VERY far away from them.

As far as I understand the story of Amaris, the kennel has never actually changed hands. Only locations. So when they breed and sell so many dogs in one area and people begin learning about their disgusting ways and dogs start dropping dead really young, they pack up and move the kennel again. From what I've researched and found, Missouri is the 4th state they've been in since the 1970's when they started breeding.

I have this information based on the word of trustworthy members of the Rolla Kennel Club in Rolla, Missouri. Feel free to ask around with area kennel clubs and Doberman people for your own independent fact finding mission.

I grew up about 20-minutes from Salem, MO so when I was looking up breeders a few years ago I came across Amaris and their claim to have been breeding since the '70's. Immediately something didn't sit right. Salem is located in extreme rural Missouri. Everyone knows everyone and I grew up around Dobermans in my family (since the 1980's) so I'd have known if someone had been breeding Dobermans (quality or not) 20-minutes from my parents' house my entire life. That's what sent me off contacting kennel clubs and training facilities to find out more information on this mysterious 'long-time' Doberman breeder 20-minutes from my hometown.

Obviously it's explained by what I found out they've been breeding since the '70s I have no doubt, but they've been fleeing in the night with their kennel in tow when screwed over and hurt puppy buyers start knocking on their door again.

ETA...Correction. Missouri is the 3rd state Amaris has been in since the '70s. I just went back and re-read a couple of emails from that time to make sure I was accurate.

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MsMoppett

· #3 · Feb 23, 2012

If THIS is the breeder you are referring to, there are a few red flags that might not be so obvious to the first time dog buyer. This is my honest opinion.

They offer a 5% discount for buying multiple dogs at one time. No reputable breeder would ever think this is a good idea.

They place puppies betwee 8-9 weeks of age. This is fairly young, and does not offer ample socialization time. This also shows that they do not crop the puppies before homing.

As far as testing is concerned, they only seem to do VwD, OFA and Thyroid testing. There is nothing about DCM (Holter), which as you mentioned, killed your last Doberman.

They offer a health guarantee that covers congenital defects up to 12 months. Most congenital problems may not be detectible until the dog is 2 years of age.

They advertise their dogs as "Superior" sized. Anything over regular Standard size is not superior and could cause health problems due to poor conformation.

I would be wary, though I do not have direct experience with this breeder.

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Adara

· #4 · Feb 23, 2012

The Amaris that I am aware of and I think it was the Brandy/Amaris was breeding z factored dogs and possibly albinos. Not sure on the last part. Very shady breeder.

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LindaH

· #5 · Feb 23, 2012

The most obvious thing that struck me, right off the bat, was the fact that they sold you a male puppy when you already had a male doberman. No respectable, ethical breeder will sell a male doberman puppy to someone who already has a male dog living in the home. Male dobermans are notorious for same sex aggression. Doberman fights are also not minor scuffles. A male doberman will do his dead level best to kill another male if they are fighting.

I hate to counter what you said, but I don't think a wound that requires stitches is a minor, rough housing wound either. Doberman skin is tough and is not accidently torn, imo.

I wouldn't take an Amaris doberman if they offered it to me for nothing. I am not saying your boy is a bad doberman, he can't help where he came from, but I do think you are lucky so far. Even bad breeders luck out and not everything they breed will automatically be sickly.

I am glad you are happy with Sampson. Most of us started with dobermans that were from less than stellar breeders for our first one. I know I did, but unfortunately my first one developed CVI and I had to have her put down at 7 yrs of age.

You have a lot of excellent ethical doberman breeders right in your back yard.

This is a good place to start as well as a wealth of information: DPCA | The Doberman | Breeder Referral

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KristenC

· #6 · Feb 23, 2012

Adara said:
The Amaris that I am aware of and I think it was the Brandy/Amaris was breeding z factored dogs and possibly albinos. Not sure on the last part. Very shady breeder.

Yes, they definitely did. My first boy was from Brandi/Amaris. She was a puppy mill, so is the MO location. I loved my Merlin with all my might, he had a wonderful spirit. But I would never support a puppy mill again.

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DobieNC

Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 24, 2012

Thank you all for the insights I truly appreciate it. I feel very lucky for both Sampson and the time we had with Zeus. We loved them both very much and wouldn't have traded them for the world, either then or knowing what we know now. But my house is distinctly missing a soul and I want to fill it. There is an absence of presence and I would love to be a dobie daddy again.
LindaH thank you for the links we will look into them.

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Murreydobe

· #8 · Feb 24, 2012

Adara said:
The Amaris that I am aware of and I think it was the Brandy/Amaris was breeding z factored dogs and possibly albinos. Not sure on the last part. Very shady breeder.

The albinos she bred were registered with a Sirama kennel name-Amaris spelled backwards.

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