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I have a question ... you suggested Starline. Are they the same as Starlaine? When I searched Starline it brought up Starlaine.

No. Tiffany Neal is Starline, Elaine Hopper is Starlaine. I do like Starlaine as well, and she also has nice bone and heads.
 

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Because I like posting pictures of my girls and to illustrate the point that you can't judge judge a dog's size by just a picture...

One of these dogs weighs 55 pounds. The other does not. Care to take a guess? I'll give you the hint that there is a 20 pound difference between the pit and the GSD.

2020-4-12 Dogs DSC_0154 by Rosemary Elwell, on Flickr
 

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Wow! Smaller size? He doesn’t look it in this pic. Maybe because he’s next to the smaller female. He is so handsome!! Did you get him from a breeder that you would recommend?

This is why I repeatedly stress that it's impossible to judge dogs by photos and how important it is to go out and see dogs in person. It's challenging right now, I get that. If looks are such a big priority for you, I would find a way to go see dogs at a show. In my opinion, though, temperament and health/longevity should be higher on the list than looks. I want a dog that has an outstanding temperament and is going to be with me for a long time more than I care about a deep rust color. That's me, though.

Yes, I absolutely recommend Richter's breeder. However, as she commented in the other thread you posted in (her screen name here is MaryandDobes), she doesn't have any breeding plans for the forseeable future. I consider myself incredibly lucky to have been able to get one of her dogs. I think I did great research to find someone like Mary, we had a good relationship prior to me actually getting Richter, and I got SUPER lucky that she had Richter available. The longevity in her dogs is fantastic, they have great temperaments and I've had an incredible dog in him. His looks are one thing, his great companionship, his working ability evidenced by the fun times we've had earning titles together, and his lovely temperament that makes him a joy to own is what make him fabulous. More than that, the great breeder support I enjoy, the friend I've gained in Mary...that's what everyone deserves.
 

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Would like opinions on Indah Lux Doberman’s also goes by Acadiana Doberman’s please. Thanks in advance!
I'd never heard of them before just looking at their facebook page. There are new people breeding all the time, and for sure I don't know them all. They have bred to some well known dogs, so I will make an assumption that they are known to the doberman fancy.
 
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Discussion Starter #27
I'd never heard of them before just looking at their facebook page. There are new people breeding all the time, and for sure I don't know them all. They have bred to some well known dogs, so I will make an assumption that they are known to the doberman fancy.
Thank you for your info. They have a website too.
They seem ok. But I’m new and still learning.

https://acadianadobermans.weebly.com/
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Has anyone heard of Dual Stack Doberman’s? They have some nice looking dogs and say they health test with embark??
 

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Has anyone heard of Dual Stack Doberman’s? They have some nice looking dogs and say they health test with embark??
I found their Facebook page, and a listing on Breeders.net.

According to Facebook: We are a breeder of European Doberman Pinschers and Min Pins. We strive to breed quality family oriented dogs. All of our dogs are genetically health tested and AKC registered.

According to Breeders.net: European AKC Doberman pincher puppies. Parents are genetically health tested with clear results, no Z factor, or history of DCM. Raising Dobermans for 20 years at our home with our children and pets.

Neither one of them mentions titling or any health testing beyond genetic testing. And frankly, that bit about "no history of DCM" in the Breeders.net profile is enough to turn me off. DCM is everywhere in Dobes. There are NO lines that are clear of it.
 

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You mentioned clear Embark results—likely some of the results they are talking about are whether either parent has one or both of two genes that may have something to do with the development of DCM in the doberman.

But DCM is apparently caused by the interaction of multiple genes. A dog can be negative for these two genes and still develop DCM; they can be positive for these genes and not develop DCM. Some breeders run these genetic tests in addition to many other tests, in an effort to gather information as we try to understand the development of DCM in the doberman, but it is almost of academic interest only at this point.

The tests you want to see in terms of DCM and doberman heart conditions are good results on a 24 hour holter and an echocardiogram, performed on both parents within 1 year or less of the breeding.

When you are looking at a puppy's pedigree, you look for things like DCM or short lifespans in the parents, grandparent, siblings from previous breedings, aunts, uncle, and so on—examining that history is important in evaluating the bloodline's health, but like Rosemary said, there are no lines of dobes that are absolutely free of DCM, and a good breeder should know that.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
I did see a post on one of their pics that said the pups just had their tails “cropped”. Which kind of concerned me. Also, I think they breed their dogs every time they come in heat.
 

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Maybe you could clarify your goals at this point? I don't see a lot of common ground between the last two breeders you asked about.
 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
Maybe you could clarify your goals at this point? I don't see a lot of common ground between the last two breeders you asked about.
Well, as far as clarifying my goals. They have changed since I first started looking - which was before Covid. I have changed from going with a European that I could possibly show to the following:

Female
American or maybe 1/2 & 1/2
Companion
Maybe agility
And of course health, longevity, and temperament would be at the top of that list.
I like the Europeans but am rethinking their strong prey drive and determination. But I do want one with a little bit of that as I also want her to be protection as well. Which is why I’m considering a 1/2 & 1/2. BUT I am having trouble finding those breeders. (Any advice and recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!!).

I have been in contact with 1 breeder who has been really nice and answered all of my questions. Not only did she answer them but also EXPLAINED as well. She does breed show Europeans but she says they “have the laid back temperament of the Americans”. Any thoughts on that?
 

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Well, as far as clarifying my goals. They have changed since I first started looking - which was before Covid. I have changed from going with a European that I could possibly show to the following:

Female
American or maybe 1/2 & 1/2
Companion
Maybe agility
And of course health, longevity, and temperament would be at the top of that list.
I like the Europeans but am rethinking their strong prey drive and determination. But I do want one with a little bit of that as I also want her to be protection as well. Which is why I’m considering a 1/2 & 1/2. BUT I am having trouble finding those breeders. (Any advice and recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!!).

I have been in contact with 1 breeder who has been really nice and answered all of my questions. Not only did she answer them but also EXPLAINED as well. She does breed show Europeans but she says they “have the laid back temperament of the Americans”. Any thoughts on that?
I think any well bred American will be protective of their people. Mine would absolutely protect me in the event of an intruder in my home - we tested this, accidentally. She showed defensive instincts at about 8 months.

I think I'd go for an agility breeder, and see how many of their dogs have earned a WAC (and under which evaluators).
 
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Well, as far as clarifying my goals. They have changed since I first started looking - which was before Covid. I have changed from going with a European that I could possibly show to the following:

Female
American or maybe 1/2 & 1/2
Companion
Maybe agility
And of course health, longevity, and temperament would be at the top of that list.
I like the Europeans but am rethinking their strong prey drive and determination. But I do want one with a little bit of that as I also want her to be protection as well. Which is why I’m considering a 1/2 & 1/2. BUT I am having trouble finding those breeders. (Any advice and recommendations would be greatly appreciated!!!).

I have been in contact with 1 breeder who has been really nice and answered all of my questions. Not only did she answer them but also EXPLAINED as well. She does breed show Europeans but she says they “have the laid back temperament of the Americans”. Any thoughts on that?
Health and longevity is also at the top of my list.

I'm someone who doesn't really like sweeping generalizations about temperament. I know American Dobermans who have drive for days, and I know European Dobermans that don't. I know American Dobermans that can and will protect.

As Falfenix said, a WAC (working aptitude certification) is something that may give you at least some indication of a dog's natural reaction in threatening situations. People that compete in bite sports with their dogs (IPO, now renamed IGP) and earn titles with them would also be people I would trust to evaluate their dogs' protective instincts. Otherwise, you really don't know. Many Dobermans do have a natural protective instinct. Some do not. It truly doesn't matter what their breeding is - I've watched enough Working Aptitude Exams (which is our breed's temperament test) to say that a dog may surprise you. THAT SAID - most people don't truly need a dog to protect them. Walking with a Doberman at your side - their presence, their bark...that's enough to be a pretty good deterrent. I never am worried walking alone with my dogs. And, frankly, I don't WANT my dogs to have to protect me. I don't want them in danger.

There are some great breeders breeding American/Euro blends, if you're willing to wait for them - they may not be breeding soon. Julie Stade of BJF Dobermans. Helia Driscoll of Protea Dobermans. Those are two that come to mind, but there are others. Both are very nice people to talk to and may have other leads for you.
 

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I think any well bred American will be protective of their people. Mine would absolutely protect me in the event of an intruder in my home - we tested this, accidentally. She showed defensive instincts at about 8 months.

I think I'd go for an agility breeder, and see how many of their dogs have earned a WAC (and under which evaluators).
Of course, Ripleys sire had his WAC, Rally Excellent, CD, and Versatility titles.... all of which earned him his ROM :wink2: I truly miss that dog & his owner - probably had the best temperament I ever produced.
 

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Of course, Ripleys sire had his WAC, Rally Excellent, CD, and Versatility titles.... all of which earned him his ROM :wink2: I truly miss that dog & his owner - probably had the best temperament I ever produced.
I'm sad I only got the one chance to meet him.
 
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I'm sad I only got the one chance to meet him.
He was a total sweetheart and had a lot of drive. His owner used to play frisbee with him in their backyard, and he was a nut for it. I'd like to think that his owner, Don, and Maverick are together again..... Don loved that dog!
 

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I'm sad I only got the one chance to meet him.
He was a total sweetheart and had a lot of drive. His owner used to play frisbee with him in their backyard, and he was a nut for it. I'd like to think that his owner, Don, and Maverick are together again..... Don loved that dog!

Mavericks two sisters are currently 10, but the boys are all gone. This is what makes being a breeder so hard when the sire and dam live good long lives, but their get often don't. Hard to understand.
 
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