Breeder info
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I absolute hard NO to both!
Ray's dobermans has pedigrees full of byb and puppy mill dogs.
Please check the DPCA website and use that as a starting point.
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HI I live in Central New York and I am looking to get a female dogie. Does anybody know of any good breeders in the area? I am willing to drive to see the puppies. It doesn't have to be in new york, willing to go out of state if needed. Just would like to deal with a breeder that does right by the puppies, health testing, etc. Thanks for any help
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I have a puppy from Draggin'. I just got him earlier this month(obviously from the same litter you may have been looking at). So far, I'm very pleased. Extremely gentle, very intelligent, and perfectly healthy. Eric is knowledgable and has been very helpful. He came to my house to re-post ears a couple of weeks after I bought the puppy, and he reposted them again last night. He doesn't not crank out litters like a mill. All in all, he seems to be a good breeder. Everything he has told me has been proven accurate.
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^^^ Sorry, I know you love your pup, but that just shows how much you still need to learn.
The dam, Draggins Torq Trespassers Beware, is untitled (doesn't even have a single conformation point or performance leg), and shows minimal health testing on her OFA page. Hip are Excellent, elbows are normal, and as of March 2016, has thyroid listed as "EQUIVOCAL".
The sire, Mariahs Red Draggin v Koepsel, only shows hips and vWD on the OFA website.
There is no mention of either dog having had a recent holter or echo, the two of the most important tests for Dobermans, on either their website or the OFA page.
The dam, Draggins Torq Trespassers Beware, is untitled (doesn't even have a single conformation point or performance leg), and shows minimal health testing on her OFA page. Hip are Excellent, elbows are normal, and as of March 2016, has thyroid listed as "EQUIVOCAL".
The sire, Mariahs Red Draggin v Koepsel, only shows hips and vWD on the OFA website.
There is no mention of either dog having had a recent holter or echo, the two of the most important tests for Dobermans, on either their website or the OFA page.
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And for the record, before joining DT, I probably would have said the same as you about this particular breeder. I wasn't exactly uneducated about Dobermans and breeders, but in the past four years, my knowledge has grown exponentially. A breeder that I would have happily purchased from a few years ago will more than likely not meet my standards today.
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89 Posts
This is my first Dobie, and if I had waited until I knew everything there was to know, I'd have never gotten one. What I do know is that I talked with many breeders and in the end I picked the pup I have because I was the most confident in the breeder than with any other. He certainly went over a lot more tests that he had done on the litter than what some mentioned above. In the contract, he guarantees the dog to be free of hereditary defects: cvi, dilated cardiomyopathy, symptomatic VWD, and hip dysplasia.
When I picked my pup up, he went over so many things I didn't understand, but everything he went over was health related and the dog had been thoroughly evaluated and found to be clear of all issues common to Dobies.
He's a fantastic dog, and I'm certainly not going to spend any time going back and forth with anyone who isn't speaking from first hand knowledge. He said, she said isn't enough. The OP asked if anyone had experience with Draggin', and apparently I'm the only one. I'm very happy with them and the service they have provided even after I brought MOJO home. If there are any issues, the contract protects me. Not much more I can ask for......
When I picked my pup up, he went over so many things I didn't understand, but everything he went over was health related and the dog had been thoroughly evaluated and found to be clear of all issues common to Dobies.
He's a fantastic dog, and I'm certainly not going to spend any time going back and forth with anyone who isn't speaking from first hand knowledge. He said, she said isn't enough. The OP asked if anyone had experience with Draggin', and apparently I'm the only one. I'm very happy with them and the service they have provided even after I brought MOJO home. If there are any issues, the contract protects me. Not much more I can ask for......
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I guess he didn't tell you that Ravenwoods Azure Sky, you pup's great grandsire, died of confirmed cardio at the age of 7? Dobequest
og Profile PageFrankly, anyone who says they guarantee there is no cardio anywhere in their lines is either lying or delusional.
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89 Posts
Did I say he guaranteed no cardio anywhere in his lines? Nope. I didn't. In fact, while going through the process of buying the pup, I asked him "what are some common illnesses that are specific to dobies". He explained cardio and said there's no way of predicting it, and certainly didn't say that my pup would not have anything to worry about. It's a risk I took, knowing that it's possible.I guess he didn't tell you that Ravenwoods Azure Sky, you pup's great grandsire, died of confirmed cardio at the age of 7? Dobequest
Frankly, anyone who says they guarantee there is no cardio anywhere in their lines is either lying or delusional.
I appreciate your attempt at being helpful, but you're not.... There's no animal on the planet that is guaranteed perfect health and long life. There's only so much you can do. There are no guarantees.
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You just contradicted yourself.
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Looking back at this "breeder's" history here on DT (Draggin) and checking Dobequest, it looks like they initially bought some nice dogs from some decent breeders but then failed to follow through with any titles of their own on Draggin dogs, except two puppies from a litter where both parents were Mariah dogs.
I'm surprised that they got breeding rights on dogs without having really proven themselves in any venue, conformation or performance but maybe a close mentorship by Mariah? They don't breed often. Maybe they are doing performance things we can't see?
No breeder can guarantee a puppy to be free of the diseases mentioned in the contract quoted above from Draggin because those diseases are not able to be tested for when a puppy is sold. So that is an empty promise and totally worthless. All a breeder can do is guarantee that they will replace a puppy or refund your money. Replacing a puppy is also worthless in my book, because, realistically, who is going to give up their dog for another at the point that it become sick?
The best thing that a breeder can do is to show you the extensive testing that has been done on both parents and the record of testing/illness in the extended pedigree plus their own track record with wellness/illness information in the puppies they have bred.
I would not get a puppy from Draggin because on the surface it looks like they are riding on the coattails of other reputable breeders and they just haven't demonstrated the actions themselves that I want to see in a reputable breeder who is in it to improve this breed. But I don't know all the facts about them either.
I get that someone would be very defensive if they had just gotten a puppy from this breeder and the breeder was being closely examined on Doberman Talk. However, these discussions and presentation of documented facts are very helpful for current and future puppy buyers. Most of us were initially ignorant on finding a good and reputable breeder. There is no shame in that. The shame would be if you don't continue to grow and learn about Dobermans as well as how you can protect the future of the breed. I believe this can best be done by supporting only reputable breeders who are testing FULLY, titling, and breeding with much study to improve the health of our rather sickly but wonderful breed.
I'm surprised that they got breeding rights on dogs without having really proven themselves in any venue, conformation or performance but maybe a close mentorship by Mariah? They don't breed often. Maybe they are doing performance things we can't see?
No breeder can guarantee a puppy to be free of the diseases mentioned in the contract quoted above from Draggin because those diseases are not able to be tested for when a puppy is sold. So that is an empty promise and totally worthless. All a breeder can do is guarantee that they will replace a puppy or refund your money. Replacing a puppy is also worthless in my book, because, realistically, who is going to give up their dog for another at the point that it become sick?
The best thing that a breeder can do is to show you the extensive testing that has been done on both parents and the record of testing/illness in the extended pedigree plus their own track record with wellness/illness information in the puppies they have bred.
I would not get a puppy from Draggin because on the surface it looks like they are riding on the coattails of other reputable breeders and they just haven't demonstrated the actions themselves that I want to see in a reputable breeder who is in it to improve this breed. But I don't know all the facts about them either.
I get that someone would be very defensive if they had just gotten a puppy from this breeder and the breeder was being closely examined on Doberman Talk. However, these discussions and presentation of documented facts are very helpful for current and future puppy buyers. Most of us were initially ignorant on finding a good and reputable breeder. There is no shame in that. The shame would be if you don't continue to grow and learn about Dobermans as well as how you can protect the future of the breed. I believe this can best be done by supporting only reputable breeders who are testing FULLY, titling, and breeding with much study to improve the health of our rather sickly but wonderful breed.
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Do you have the Doberman pup now, it’s been years later? Is your pup still healthy? Now it’s the year 2021 and I would like to purchase a pup from dragon Dobermans. A litter from karma and ricochet. Nice looking dogs Karma has a good bloodline and so does ricochet. Due February 2021. I’m looking for a red pure bred European open pincher male.
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