Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Hairy Dog, RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
Joined
·
26,494 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Browsing around the following website in its doberman section Doberman (Dobermann Pinscher), I saw this statement:

"In the early years of the breed bobtail puppies appeared occasionally, resulting in today's fashion of docked-tailed Dobermans."

I don't remember seeing this before; has anyone else?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
939 Posts
How interesting! You learn something new everry day, eh?
 
  • Like
Reactions: melbrod

·
Registered
Joined
·
370 Posts
A friend just had a litter a few months ago and one of the pups was " bob tailed "

I had never heard of this either, but I have never been around breeders before much either. She definately was NOT shocked, she just said, Yeah it happens now and then.
 

·
formerly known as moona
Joined
·
1,461 Posts
I think I remember reading somewhere that it was attempted to make that a natural trait; but it brought in other characteristics that weren't desirable. I have no idea where I read that though.
 

·
Sea Hag
Joined
·
12,933 Posts
Otto Goeller, who actually was the one who developed this breed into what we have today, is said to have had produced a few dogs with a natural bob tail. So it's not surprising when we see it pop up now and then in today's dogs.

In many breeds the bob tail trait is what's considered a lethal trait. If you double up on it all sorts of birth defects can occur, to the extreme of dogs being born who lack an anus. That more than likely is the reason no one has pursued trying to produce natural bob tails in this breed with regularity.
 

·
Bad Wolf
Joined
·
960 Posts
My breeder had a bobtail, short like a rottweilers would be. Would be interesting to know what the chances are of bobtail happening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: melbrod

·
Sea Hag
Joined
·
12,933 Posts
My breeder had a bobtail, short like a rottweilers would be. Would be interesting to know what the chances are of bobtail happening.
One of the problems with natural bob tails is the length can vary from dog to dog. So in a lot of breeds where they occur, the dog with a natural bob tail might have to be docked anyway, as the tail might still be too long per their breed standard.
 

·
sadder but wiser girl
Joined
·
9,688 Posts
Oy.......... almost every breed, just like cats, has an occasional bob tail occur - just like people sometimes are born with extra fingers or toes, or only part of an ear - genetic glitches happen, without necessarily being dangerous or bizarre... but this is NOT the reason why tails and ears were docked on Dobermans, Boxers, Bouviers, Rotties....... it was for the safety of dogs working in police and military settings, guard and PP situations ... so there'd be less for an attacker to grab onto or hold the animal by, gaining purchase to then harm or kill it... it was never a fashion trend or aesthetic until after it was a practical consideration - and then, it became a fashion statement. I really like the look of a very well cropped Dobe, but since I don't show and have no fear of guerilla soldiers trying to kill my dogs, I'd just as soon leave them au naturel! :)
 

·
Eat Poo and Die
Joined
·
2,193 Posts
My breeder had a bobtail, short like a rottweilers would be. Would be interesting to know what the chances are of bobtail happening.
Hmm, wonder if that's what happened to Niz! Lol, his tail is so short he can make it disappear and there is absolutely zero scar tissue. God forbid a vet actually thought this was a decent look for a Doberman to have.
 

·
sadder but wiser girl
Joined
·
9,688 Posts
There seem to be a few vets who don't really know the difference between a Doberman and a Rottweiller...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
653 Posts
This is a topic I could talk about all day.

A friend of mine In the US had a litter of puppies a few months back, in that litter there were 11 puppies I think, 5 of them had kinks in their tails while one bitch had a bob tail.
I was incredibly interested in buying this pup and importing to the UK as docking is banned and if this was something we could breed for safely then it was something I would love to do.. 10 year plan so to speak.

I arranged for the whole litter, mum and dad to have a DNA test from a lab here in the uk to see if they were genetically bobed or if it was just a fluke, annoyingly all came back normal so if there was a genetic Link it wasn't one that was in own about.

I had to decline the puppy in the end because she came back as a vwd affected pup, which as a pet is fine but because I would want to breed her to try to produce other bobs I was not willing to put a bitch in such a high risk situation just for my own desires.

Regarding the lethal state, the gene is thought to be expressed if only one gene is present however if a homozygous puppy would to occur it is very rare it makes it to full term and is often reabsorbed. When bob tail to bob tail matings have taken place the average litter size is only marginally smaller than a non bob tail litter while it is always about 50% of the litter who will have the bob gene.
The other side of it is it is only one gene but it is expressed in many ways, either a nice small bob at about 2 vertebrae or it can be as long as a 3/4 tail.. Or even a full tail with a kink. All of these old the gene but obviously only one form is desired. The kink can be as small as a sight bend in the tail down to a full hook.

There is a kennel in Australia who has been breeding bob tail rotties for 30 years now, she started it because she liked he look of a dock but didn't like docking her puppies, she was ridiculed for years but now the ban in Australia is enforced her pups are like gold dust!!!

The gene is thought to come from old German Shepard, not the gsd but a very old no longer in existance dog which was used in the founding breeds to make the Doberman, I think the bob was preferred but because it's inheritance was only. 50% and the tail length wasn't uniform the practice of docking came about more heavily.

The whole idea of this fascinates me, I am about breeding for a whole dog not for one trait but if this could be achieved without any other part of the dog suffering it is still something I would love to do.
Ref the pup I was going to buy, the same sire had another litter as its suspected that he is the one that carries the gene, he him self was born with a kinked tail and the kink is something he seems to pass on, according to the English geneticist who created the bob tail boxers if a dog has a thin whispy tail the likelihood of bobed is slim, it was the thicker tailed dogs which would have the bobs while the thin tailed ones would be kinked. The dam of the second litter was docked so not knowing what her tail is like means it's hard to predict.

I have a bitch here which has a very thick tail... And I would love to import semen and try here BUT if the puppies came out kinked and not bobed I couldn't dock them and they would be forever "deformed" because of my personal whim.. AGain which is something I am just not willing to do.

But yes.. There are a few published bob tails about, one in sweeden, a nice black bitch who has done very well in the ring, n o idea if she was ever bred though.

I Iwill say though that from looking in to the pedigrees of all the dogs I found with bob tails there Always was one dog that cropped up in the previous 5 generations, made me wonder if maybe he was the link!
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top