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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi All:

My wife and I are from Pittsburgh and purchased a blue dobe approximately 3mos ago and recently got his ears cropped about 3 days ago. My question is do blue dobermans' coats change black after about 2yrs? This is what the breeder indicated to us upon purchase and me and the wife are debating whether this is true or not. So what better source to turn to right? Thanks for the help.
 

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Welcome to the forum, glad you found us :)

Yes that is a complete lie. So how old is your pup now? Big shame that you got in with such a very poor breeder :( Ears are generally done at around 7-9 weeks, and a good breeder will have them done for you, and not leave you with the trouble and work of surgery aftercare. Did he come from a large kennel when you bought him?

But it happens, and your pooch is still the first priority and the big thing is to learn from it, not make the mistake again, and spread your newfound knowledge around to try to keep as many people as possible from going to poor breeders like that.

A good breeder is someone that you can turn to for the duration of your dog's life with any questions or advice, as they are responsible for that pup as well. People like the one your pup came from, they want their money, and really aren't knowledgeable (obviously), or don't even care if they ever hear from you again sadly.

What's your pup's name? We'd love to hear more about him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you for the warm welcome! Yeah she told us his coat would turn black like his mothers' after about 2yrs, not a dark solid black. So he will have the gray/blue coat that he currently has? Many people do not believe he is a blue dobe or will mistake him for a fawn, which I'm guessing looks similar. Our Pup's name is Kilo. He's 3mos old and we purchased him when he was 6wks and brought him home at 9wks old, his tail was already docked. The breeder that we bought him from was someone local in Braddock. She had 7 puppies, (5 blue/rust and 2 black/rust). The sire weighed about 130 pounds and the dam about 90 pounds (both black/rust though she stated that the dam had the red and blue bloodline). This was our first time purchasing a doberman puppy and should have done a little more research. The wife had been wanting one for the longest and we saw the person advertising them in the classifieds. We were both under the impression that the ear cropping could be done any time and quickly found out that was not true. The vet said we had about 2-3wks left before it was too late to crop his ears, so we hurried and got it done and hope to have success. We have done alot of research on posting as well and need to decide whether to use the tampon method or the measuring tape method. I had also heard that you could use a toilet paper cardboard roll as well? Kilo was very healthy and in good shape when we purchased him. He was also the largest of the bunch. Kilo is extremely energetic and begininng to show signs of protection in the household. He knows when a stranger is in the house and will bark like crazy. We are currently researching what size crate to get him into as he is quickly outgrowing his puppy crate. What size does everyone recommend? We have also been having problems with him urinating in his crate and not giving us any sign. We can cut him off from water for hours and maybe give him a little in the middle of the day. After letting him outside a few times as well as before bedtime, the next morning his cage is flooded. Is there something that we are doing wrong? We also have him on a schedule:

5am - wake up/let out to go to relieve/eat and then crate
6am - let out to relieve/water and then crate
6:30am - let out to relieve/playtime for about 30mins/crate
7:30-8am - wife will let him out one last time and then crate before she leaves for work as I am already gone

3pm - kids come home and let him out to relieve, he eats and is crated
4-5pm - I get home and let him out unless the kids have already done so to play and get water.

8:30-9pm is dinner time
10pm is usually playtime again
11pm is time to relieve and then crated for bedtime
 

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oh my oh my is what first came to me after reading your first post. No good vet would Crop that late ever. I agree with lexus it's a shame you got a pup from such a poor Breeder I hope the Ears come around and please do more Research theirs alot to learn about this Breed!
 

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welcome to the board!

i was confused at first, he is 3 months then? not 6, right? cuz i think that would be too late to crop. It dosnt sound as though you got him from a quality breeder. did he have health testing? a contract?

He is an adorable boy and i love his name. More pictures please!
 

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I'm sure he is an adorable guy :)

Is his crate small enough that he must lay in his urine? The best thing to do, is to make sure that he cannot deficate in one area and sleep in another. Then they teach themselves not to urinate in their "den"/crate b/c they don't want to be dirty.

My advice is to bump dinnertime to around 5/6, rather then 9pm. You can give a few treats before bedtime to tide him over at most. Even though he is given an opportunity to relieve himself, his belly is still full when he is going to bed, making him have to potty before morning. Just in my opinion, perhaps make your late playtime earlier in the evening as well, so you can pull his water by like 8pm then, to limit chances of urination at night.

Just make sure he isn't eating very large portions when he eats. A good rule of thumb to remember, his tummy is only as large as the top of his head, so not too much room in there! If he is stuffing himself on large portions, then that increases his chances of accidents as well.

Make sure you are standing with him, so you know he is relieving himself when he's outside (you may be already doing that, I just thought I'm mention it for referance)

He will stay a grey/blue color that he is now. Many people have dilutes (that is what blues and fawns are called) with great coats, but they are prone to having coat trouble, so it's good to do some research on that.

VERY IMPORTANT - get him into puppy kindergarten ASAP. This breed needs socialization, get him into puppy obedience classes, take him to the pet store, parks etc. Carry treats in your pocket, and when strangers get to meet and greet him, make him sit to be petted by them, and give them a treat to give to him. In addition, the breed is notoriously same sex aggressive, so if you ever conisder adding another fourlegged friend to the house, go with a female.

Okay, enough of my novel!!! Please browse the site, feel free to ask ANY questions, we've got a ton of knowledgeable people on many different aspects of the breed on here.
 

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I also wanted to mention that 130 lbs for a male and even the 90lbs for the mom, are very very large, and not in breed standard. They are called oversized, and are frowned to breed, they increase the chances of creating offspring with health problems, namely hip displasia. A responsible breeder will only breed the best of the best, and even then, fully health tested, hips, elbows, vWd tested, and more. They will title their dogs prior to breeding, and very very rarely will they own both the male and female, reason being that you should only breed the best dogs to compliment eachother and minimize flaws (all have some flaw or another :)), very rarely will someone be fortunate enough to truley have the male to fully compliment the bitch, etc....

I'm not trying to lecture, I hope you don't get that drift from my posts :) We were ALL new to the breed at some point, and I'm just passing on stuff we all have learned at some point or another! We'd love to see some pics of Kilo!
 

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Basically, if he can't make it the 6 hours overnight, you need to be getting up in the night to let him out. A general rule for young puppies is that they can hold their urine for as many hours as they are months old plus one. If he's 3 months, he should be able to hold it for 4 hours and you're expecting more.

I agree with Lexus about the meal times. You're making him go from breakfast at 5 am to 9 pm! Way too long. Some pups will become hypoglycemic making them wait that long between meals. Puppies that age should actually be getting 3 meals a day. You're filling him up and putting him to bed. You're not exactly setting him up for success.
 

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jeromejenkins said:
The sire weighed about 130 pounds and the dam about 90 pounds (both black/rust though she stated that the dam had the red and blue bloodline). This was our first time purchasing a Doberman puppy and should have done a little more research.
As someone else already said, oversized huge Dobermans are not a good thing physically, the bigger the dog, the shorter the lifespan in general as well. But I am glad you are now doing your research. Welcome to the world of being owned by a Doberman :)

jeromejenkins said:
The wife had been wanting one for the longest and we saw the person advertising them in the classifieds
The classified are not a good place to find a breeder for a Doberman puppy. Usually these people are backyard breeders, who charge less money b/c they don’t health test their dogs, don’t show their dogs, don’t temperament test their dogs, don’t crop their dogs or puppies, aren’t up to date on vet care for the puppies (shots, wormings,etc.) and don’t do much as far as socialization goes for Dobe puppies (this is REALLY important in Dobes), and don’t really know what they are doing, other than making money. And that is not a good reason to breed at all.

jeromejenkins said:
We were both under the impression that the ear cropping could be done any time and quickly found out that was not true
Reputable breeders who health test and show have the puppies cropped BEFORE the future owners take them home. That way the crop looks good (many vets don't know how to do a good Dobe crop) and is less hassle for the new owner. Many also do some of the aftercare and send puppies to their owners in posts, esp. if they are first time owners. Then they are available for help at any time with the puppies ears, or anything else “puppy” that comes up and the owners need help with. I know this doesn’t help now, but at least now you know for future reference.

jeromejenkins said:
We have done alot of research on posting as well and need to decide whether to use the tampon method or the measuring tape method.
There are many ways to tape Doberman ears. I use foam that you can buy from Lowe's and Zonas tape. If you search old threads you will find a lot of ear posting advice and illustrations. If you need more help, just ask. The people on this board are really friendly and maybe know people in your area who could help you hands on with your new puppy. Remember not to post too tight, as it can cut of circulation. Also, don't post too loose, or it will come out. The aftercare in posting ears is really important on a crop, it can make or break the look of the dog’s ears if the crop was done by a cropper who is an expert.


jeromejenkins said:
Kilo is extremely energetic and begininng to show signs of protection in the household. He knows when a stranger is in the house and will bark like crazy.
It is highly unlikely a three month old puppy is “protecting”. He is just a BABY, he is not protecting you, he is scared and not feeling okay around new people, and at this young of an age, that would really concern me if I wasn’t taking steps to socialize the heck out of a puppy like this. Especially if I had kids in the house, I don’t need the kid’s friends to be harassed just for coming over to play. If you are okay with new people in your house, he should be too.
At this age, don’t expect much. As a baby puppy, if he is so leery of strangers this means he needs a TON more socialization to grow into a confident, non-fearful, mentally stable adult dog.
Do you take him on walks? How is his behavior on those walks? What types of things have you done for socialization with this puppy? Where all do you take the puppy?
It is way more likely that this Doberman puppy was not socialized properly at his breeder’s (a must for this breed) and has a lot of catching up to do in that department. He is either nervy or lacking confidence and therefore he barks a lot “like crazy” at this young age. Don’t fool yourself; he is not protecting the household just yet.

jeromejenkins said:
We are currently researching what size crate to get him into as he is quickly outgrowing his puppy crate. What size does everyone recommend?
You can get a large wire crate at Petsmart or Petco and make sure to get one that comes with a divider. This way the crate can grow with your puppy. Based on his parent’s size, you might want to get a bigger one than is normally suggested for Dobes and section off the crate until he grows into it.

jeromejenkins said:
We have also been having problems with him urinating in his crate and not giving us any sign. We can cut him off from water for hours and maybe give him a little in the middle of the day. After letting him outside a few times as well as before bedtime, the next morning his cage is flooded.
He is still young, his control over this bladder is just not 100% at this age and he will have accidents. But I don’t suggest cutting him off from water unless he is just really guzzling it down. It is not healthy, puppies bodies need water and need to stay hydrated. It is up to you to prevent accidents at this age, which means take him out RIGHT when he gets up, even if you have to carry him, take him out immediately, this means naps too, not just in the morning. Take him out after a long play session, or even in the middle of one. Take him out right after he eats anything and after long drinks. Basically you are going to have to take him out A TON because he is a puppy and puppy pee all the time. Tell him go potty when you do, stay out there with him at this young age, train him to do his business right away then praise and reward him a lot, make using the bathroom outside a great things to him, you can even feed him treats. To potty train him you have to keep a very close eye on him, prevention is the thing here. You cannot give him too much freedom too soon, for instance, if you are playing in the living room, shut the doors and make sure he can’t roam around without supervision to potty in the house. I agree with MaryandDobes, he needs more meals a day, smaller, more frequent meals, and needs to be fed earlier. Also, he needs to be let out during the night. Some puppies need this for awhile, others don’t, but I think yours does for sure right now. When they have to go, they have to go. You can set a timer and wake the puppy up and take him out, this will help him not accidentally pee on himself. Good luck. Hope this helps a little bit.
 

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Lexus said:
VERY IMPORTANT - get him into puppy kindergarten ASAP. This breed needs socialization, get him into puppy obedience classes, take him to the pet store, parks etc. Carry treats in your pocket, and when strangers get to meet and greet him, make him sit to be petted by them, and give them a treat to give to him. In addition, the breed is notoriously same sex aggressive, so if you ever conisder adding another fourlegged friend to the house, go with a female.
I agree 110%, this is one of the MOST IMPORTANT things you can do for him right now. Get him into a puppy K class or some type of positive obedience class immediately. They are really fun, build his confidence, and teach the puppy a ton and help with the socialization.
 

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MaryAndDobes said:
You may want to spend some time on this resource for lots of general Doberman info
http://members.execulink.com/~korevaar/buyingguide.htm
There are a couple of links about blue Dobermans and the problems you might expect with the coat.
Yes, def. check out that wonderful link. The majority of blue Dobermans come with coat problems as they mature.
 

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First and foremost hello and welcome to the forum from me and my girls.
I cannot help you with any ear problems as we are not allowed to crop in this country but with the soiling issues i have to agree with the others here someone has to do the 4am shift i'm afraid,I know as it was always me in our household,as he gets older you can move the time along till you find him going through the night with no problems.
 

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The barking like crazy in the house at people bothers me. You don't want him to be doing this as an adult, it shouldn't be allowed as a pup.

He sounds like he needs alot more socialization. Get him out and about in the world and introduce him to new things and people.

Get him enrolled in a puppy class ASAP. This breed needs alot of socialization and training to be a good canine citizen.
 

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DD is right, don't cut him off totally from water, I should have been more specific :) I recommended earlier playtime, so he wouldn't be guzzling water right before bedtime, cut him off from excessive water before bedtime. Thanks for catching that for me DD....
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
MaryAndDobes said:
Basically, if he can't make it the 6 hours overnight, you need to be getting up in the night to let him out. A general rule for young puppies is that they can hold their urine for as many hours as they are months old plus one. If he's 3 months, he should be able to hold it for 4 hours and you're expecting more.

I agree with Lexus about the meal times. You're making him go from breakfast at 5 am to 9 pm! Way too long. Some pups will become hypoglycemic making them wait that long between meals. Puppies that age should actually be getting 3 meals a day. You're filling him up and putting him to bed. You're not exactly setting him up for success.
Mary,
he gets 3 meals per day:

5-5:30am
3pm
9pm

He's really been urinating like crazy in his crate since taking the anti-biotics for his ears? Will the meds cause this? The vet had also gave us tranquilizers which we were to give as needed, we stopped giving those as he was really spaced out and think that was contributing to the urinating with no warnings.

As for socializing, we have been taking him to an off-leash doggie park and plan to do it more often. He is up to date on all shots but a friend of mine claims that we should not have him around any other animals until all of his shots are complete due to risk of Parvo?

Our pup is 3months old, i'll get the exact birthdate and try to post some more pics. I agree the breeder was a backyard breeder and we did not know all of the rules of evaluating a breeder and the parents when purchasing a dobe. The breeder let us see both parents, the father was EXTREMELY vicious and was not allowed around the pups nor was he people friendly. The provided us with papers to register him with the AKC or something and she also showed us the parents family tree which started from a breeder in Ohio.

All in all he is a good pup and we will still love him regardless of the type of breeder. We now know next time to do more research.

Can someone help with suggesting a new schedule or provide a sample schedule for a puppy? The urinating in the crate constantly now is driving us crazy and we swear it's the meds for his ears.

Thanks again!
 

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Why was he on the tranqs? Is he having a problem with his ears? Generally they don't need antibiotics after an ear crop unless there is a problem. Do they seem infected? Did he not mess in his cage before the meds?

I'd recommend ( and potty breaks inbetween what is mentioned here too)
Potty first
AM feeding 5:30-6 AM
watch closely - potty within a half hour

midday feeding around Noon
once again watch closely potty within a half hour

Evening feeding 6 PM
Potty

Some dry treats around 9ish so his belly isn't empty, but importantly, it isn't full either

I'd recommend as I said, earlier playtime then what you are doing. And limited water before bedtime. If you see him hanging over his water, just really drinking a ton, then take it away.

It's a really good idea to have a urine sample taken to your vet, even though he is on antibiotics, make sure he doesn't have a bladder infection. Then he wouldn't be able to control it. Long shot- but worth ruling out. I'd call your vet today and question the antibiotics in the first place and the possible side effects.

Only make him go 3-4 hours at the most right now before you take him out to potty at all times during the day. It will gradually increase in time as he grows. If that's too much, shorten it, anything to get the idea across to him that pottytime WILL be accessable if he just holds out a little bit.

I used to potty Lex right before bedtime around 11 for the last time, and she was approx 11 weeks when she came home, she would whimper and I'd let her out to potty again (carrying her, if I let her walk to the door, she'd stop and potty on the floor!) around 2 and again by 5:30. She was VERY regular once we got a routine! Then gradually her 2 AM potty time kept pushing back and back until I was just getting up at 6 am to potty and feed her.

By three months his puppy shots are near complete, and most puppy kindergarten OB classes require proof of vaccination (just ask around). So he will be safe with the other pups. It is very disturbing that his father was vicious, and that he is already barking and not confident. That IS NOT what a doberman is supposed to be by a long shot. You have genetics working against you for this guy to be a happy safe boy when he grows up. Hence the need to socialize, socialize, socialize, and when you think you've socialized enough, get him out some more. Every other day, or daily if possible. Lexus didn't even start to bark at anything (other than playing with the other dogs) until she was about 11 months old. She's nearly 3 now, and will happily tolerate anyone that is "allowed" in the house, but there have been some times, when she has gone on full alert when she didn't feel things were "right" to her.
 

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I apologize - I missed that he eats at 3 pm. That makes me feel a little better. When I have a puppy of that age, it eats at 4 am, noon and around 7-8 pm and gets a little snack/biscuit when put to bed around midnight.

I wouldn't be taking a baby puppy to a dog park. God knows who has what over there, and your puppy is not done his vaccinations. We turn into pedophiles when we have a puppy, hanging around schoolyards when they let out to expose the puppy to kids and parents. It's a ready-made audience.

I really fail to understand why you would be the least bit interested in buying a puppy whose sire was vicious. It's no concern that he wasn't allowed around the pups because some males really aren't good with being swarmed with puppies but to be vicious to people? I'm sorry, but I really fear for the future of this puppy. Temperament is largely inherited, and I seriously believe you may be in for more trouble than you bargained for. I'm talking as a rescue person here - we have had to euthanize a few Dobermans this summer for temperament. Some came from situations like yours - there was nothing wrong with the people who bought them as far as we could tell, but there was something seriously wrong with the temperament genetics they came from.

As for the peeing, by all means ask the vet if the antibiotics could be causing this. But I still think you're asking him to go too long over night without relief. I'm not clear on whether he's peeing in the crate during the day as well. You keep saying he's not giving you any warning - well, get used to it. Puppies don't come armed with alarm systems to notify you. As soon as they feel they have to go, they go. It's up to you to be intercepting this before that feeling comes on.
 

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Welcome.
I commend you for asking questions and seeking answers. Sometimes it will seem a little strong, but for the most part people want you to have success with your dobie.
Keep in mind, your pup will be, what you mold him to be. The more questions and people you ask, the more you will start hearing the same answer over and over. It is than, that you know you are on the right track.
Congratulations and have fun with your new pup.
 

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MaryAndDobes said:
A general rule for young puppies is that they can hold their urine for as many hours as they are months old plus one. If he's 3 months, he should be able to hold it for 4 hours and you're expecting more.
Well..I don't know that i agree with this. I've found it's the norm for a 3 month old puppy to be able to stay dry overnight if taken out to potty at around 11:00 pm, then crated overnight, let out for the first time between 6-7 am.

If a 3 month old puppy CAN'T stay dry overnight while crated, the first thing I'd do is check for a UTI.
 
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