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Discussion Starter #1
Hi every one!
I write this topic -a question actually- because I am very curious about what is the best place a doberman got in an FCI world dog show. We know very well that doberman have won group placings, group firsts and even BIS in the most important dog shows, such as Westminster and Crufts. So I made a little research on the web about the best places a doberman has got in the most important FCI dog show, and found nothing. The only thing I know is that the breed has never won a best in show, but how about group placings? And if any doberman has never won even a group, why could this be? Could it be because the split of the breed in two lines? Are there other interests or simply any doberman has never been good enough to beat any other breed in its group?

I hope you can give your opinion, thanks in advance.

Greetings
 

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I wrote a reply to your questions yesterday but it evidently never showed up. So I'll just make a few suggestions.

I think you are trying to compare performance at shows that often aren't quite the same from country to country.

It's got to be more than 20 years since the Doberman standard was significantly revamped and FCI shows base breeds on the standard for the country of origin--so for Dobes that's Germany.

It also means that Dobermans from countries where cropping and docking is still allowed are not even elegible to compete in those shows.

I think you'd have to be really specific about which shows you are counting as most important. And I think it probably has more to do with the revamped standard than with the actual quality of dogs.

I do know more about AKC and CKC (and even some of the South American competitions)than I do about the European shows but it's been very difficult for the Euro dogs to be competative in AKC shows for a good many years now. A few European dogs have succeeded in being competative in both areas but very few.

So what period of time are you looking at for the FCI shows? That probably makes a difference too.

dobebug
 

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I wrote a reply to your questions yesterday but it evidently never showed up. So I'll just make a few suggestions.

I think you are trying to compare performance at shows that often aren't quite the same from country to country.

It's got to be more than 20 years since the Doberman standard was significantly revamped and FCI shows base breeds on the standard for the country of origin--so for Dobes that's Germany.

It also means that Dobermans from countries where cropping and docking is still allowed are not even elegible to compete in those shows.

I think you'd have to be really specific about which shows you are counting as most important. And I think it probably has more to do with the revamped standard than with the actual quality of dogs.

I do know more about AKC and CKC (and even some of the South American competitions)than I do about the European shows but it's been very difficult for the Euro dogs to be competative in AKC shows for a good many years now. A few European dogs have succeeded in being competative in both areas but very few.

So what period of time are you looking at for the FCI shows? That probably makes a difference too.

dobebug
I'm not trying to compare shows, but wondering why in FCI world dog shows (I think these are the most important dog shows of FCI because it reunites the best dogs from all countries affiliated) we do not see Dobermans wining groups or BIS. I only mentioned Westminster and Crufts because they are the biggest or at least the most worldwide known dog shows from AKC and KC, and in those shows, you can see Dobermans competing at the highest levels pretty often.

This show (world dog show) can take place in countries with banned cropping and docking or in countries that allow it and it has taken place in Mexico, Brazil, Russia, Argentina, China, as well as Germany, Denmark, France, etc.. It has been carried out since 1970's, when there was no ban, but still no info about winning Dobermans. Plus the standard says that if in a coutry is allowed, dogs can be shown cropped and docked.

I couldn't find information of winning dobes neither from FCI countries that show "american style" Dobermans nor FCI countries that show "euro style" Dobermans. Who knows maybe just the judges don't like Dobermans.... but not even one in 50 years? or, which I think is the most possible reason, there is no available information on the internet. Or is it because differences between american and euro lines, taking into account that a lot of FCI countries breed american lines (all American Continent, and several Asian countries for example).

May be I'm just over thinking and should invest my time in something else (my wife votes for this)
 

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I certainly do not want to speak for Europe or the World, but there are a couple of things I have noticed from my conversations with my European colleagues and attending shows.

First, it seems that the Europeans value wins a Dobermann Specialty Shows much more than most any all breed show. The FCI World may be an exception. Secondly, in most of Europe they double handle Dobermanns in the conformation ring. This works well in the relatively smaller breed ring. However, in the much larger Group and BIS rings, it is much harder to get the dog's attention and double handle them since the double cannot be inside the ring. I have frequently felt that this is the reason Dobermanns do not do so well in Group and BIS competition.
 

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I certainly do not want to speak for Europe or the World, but there are a couple of things I have noticed from my conversations with my European colleagues and attending shows.

First, it seems that the Europeans value wins a Dobermann Specialty Shows much more than most any all breed show. The FCI World may be an exception. Secondly, in most of Europe they double handle Dobermanns in the conformation ring. This works well in the relatively smaller breed ring. However, in the much larger Group and BIS rings, it is much harder to get the dog's attention and double handle them since the double cannot be inside the ring. I have frequently felt that this is the reason Dobermanns do not do so well in Group and BIS competition.
I saw a video from Shanghai 2019 where the judging was full of American Dobermans with American handling style and one Euro, and actually the handler of the Euro didn't look really comfortable and the second handler had to appear when the dog was in front of the judge and disappear the dog was moving, look s ina completely different timing than the other dogs. I think that's definitely a disadvantage. Here is the link to the video, which I think is very interesting to watch for non-experts like me, to compare handling styles and dog types. May be a furhter analisys wil be worthy:

https://youtu.be/-YM0tczNzAg

But how about world dog shows in non European countries, I don't think any Doberman has won an important place. I'm thinking about the judges, if a group is judge by an European judge, is very difficult to expect an American Doberman winning
 
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