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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all... sorry this post is long. I have a few things I wanted to type out so i can get some input.

My husband wanted a doberman for years now and he finally got his wish in March. Currently Panzer is 41lbs and 3.5 months old... We have had a pug that is 2 years old and she is 15lbs.

Panzer likes to stalk her and run at full force at her and tackle her (she gets knocked down). I am afraid of her getting hurt. You can say NO all you want or try to get his attention but its fully on her. One time our pug girl had a very bright blood shot spot on her eye (and I heard a yelp while they were in the yard). I separated them immediately but do not know what happened because I was in the garden which is right next to the fenced area they were playing in. Her eye was fine later that day with no signs of redness. The other day there was blood on the pug's fur around her neck from Panzer's mouth but i thought he may have bit his lip- couldnt find any scratches or scrapes on the pug. Panzer came over and bit my leg and there was blood on me too... we couldnt figure out where that came from.

They both will run and play with each other (tug on the rope and other toys they have) or just generally horse around and play bite each other. What bothers me a lot is, Panzer will start jumping and run at ( then tackle) her and bite all around her neck. He also will step on her head/face/body when shes tugging on the same toy. if he keeps jumping on her or biting her, she will start to sound vicious and snarl then she bites back and jumps on him. He has yelped a few times while she has chased him (i guess she bit him??) Mainly he will just run away and come right back to push her around again with his paws. I dont want this to escalate to something more.

Panzer has stayed at Camp Bow Wow for a week and no incidents-- but all of the dogs he was around were full grown and maybe a bit bigger than he was at that time. My pug is pretty small and she can stand under his legs.

This may have gone on too long now (since we got him at about 10 weeks old until present day)... he is getting close to 4 months old and my husband was not trying to correct this because he was telling me its just him play biting. I guess it looked like i was too over protective of the pug...

I could never get Panzer's attention while he plays with the pug in this manner... just within the last week has my husband tried to correct Panzer by diverting his attention or saying NO but Panzer keeps stalking and playing as if he cannot hear us. A few times he knows that he shouldnt be biting or knocking the pug down and he will turn around fast and jump off like he is galloping (as if we caught him pulling something out of the trash can- he does that funny looking running/hop thing).

I dont know what worries me more- the biting or the jumping part. The pug had to get her knees popped back in during the last vet visit... at the time i didnt think it could have been from him jumping on her back with his front feet or just simply jumping all over her while playing in the yard. she does go up and down steps sometimes so it can also be that.

Another thing is he pushes her out of the way of the food and water bowl, takes all her treats and toys (he even took her treats and put it in his crate then acted like he was still eating the one i gave him in the living room)... When he comes to her to take a treat she is eating, I tell him no and put one treat in front of him and then the other in front of the pug but he always wants what she is eating. This goes on for a long time until i just take the pork skins away from them for a while so no one gets a treat. I dont think i should have to separate the dogs or hold the pug and the treat in my lap so he wont be able to just take it away... what can i do with that?

I guess I am disappointed in how things are going here because my husband has told me many stories of him training many breeds of dogs when he was a teenager and even showing a few... I was expecting the doberman to really pick up on things quickly and i guess i am being unrealistic here... I never had a dog before my pug and she just turned 2... she was easy for me to manage but the doberman is another story. Perhaps its just two different ways of communicating with Panzer-- my husband wrestles with panzer and gets him to jump up to get a toy (to strengthen his legs?) while i tell Panzer to sit each time before I throw a toy around with him. I dont want him jumping all over-he can almost reach my neck with his paws and my mom is 4ft 10inch so you know we have to hold Panzer still so he does not knock her over.


Sorry to bore you... I just dont want either of them getting hurt... whether its jersey getting hurt or panzer getting bit by her... Thank you for reading. I am open to all comments and suggestions. Remember, I personally have only had one dog and its Jersey... my husband has more experience but he doesnt seem to be communicating well (from what I can see going on here).
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
oh... i just had a talk with my husband... the kind of training he did was off leash or whatever the proper name was... not behavioral kind of issues. I dont know if this is good or bad because now i feel even more lost...
 

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First of all, I'm sure you know that Pugs are incredibly prone to eye injuries. I would have had her to the vet for the injury you described. She could easily lose an eye from an injury.

Second of all, don't give him the chance to steal her treats, toys, etc. by putting him in his crate with his, and if she's crate trained, put her in her crate with her treats, toys, etc. It also sounds like you either leave food down, or feed them from the same bowl? That's a fight waiting to happen, in my opinion. Feed them from their own bowls, in seperate locations.

Third, if you haven't already, enroll Panzer in a good obedience class. If your Pug hasn't had any training, enroll her too.

Fourth, if you do let them play together, have Panzer on a long-line. That way, if he starts to get too rough, you have something to grab.

I'm sure others with more experience can give you more or better suggestions, but that's what I'd start with.
 

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Until he learns enough or gentle - in the house use a long line if needed. Do not allow them to play in the yard until the puppy learns to play nice.
 

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My advice is to not allow them to play or roam free together unless they are being directly supervised. Your Pug is going to get hurt badly if you continue to allow your Dobe to play this way. If things get rough, call him out of play and give him something else to do. Pugs are sturdy little things, but a Dobe pup could easily break her leg or cause internal bleeding. If you cannot supervise them, then they should be separated. Please don't let this continue.

Welcome to DT, and have fun with your new Dobe addition!
 

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OK here is what you do I have a 90# male Doberman he will be 6 years old Saturday I also have a Dachshund she is 14# she is 4 months older than the Dobe have had both since they were 16 weeks old. You have to have two crates one for each dog then you play Russian roulette with both.You train Leave It and Drop it commands you keep the Doberman on a long line you have to protect the little dog. What I did if I could not stay outside with them I had my Doberman on a steel cable but only had them out like that for a very short time.That way the little dog can get away from the bigger dog. In my situation Patches the Dachshund could go under the couch to get away from Buddy the Doberman then it it was funny Buddy would stick his head under the couch have his butt stuck up in the air. Then it was like Buddy asking I'm sorry will you come back out and play I promise I will be nice. That is the way you do it good luck.
 

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OK here is what you do I have a 90# male Doberman he will be 6 years old Saturday I also have a Dachshund she is 14# she is 4 months older than the Dobe have had both since they were 16 weeks old. You have to have two crates one for each dog then you play Russian roulette with both.You train Leave It and Drop it commands you keep the Doberman on a long line you have to protect the little dog. What I did if I could not stay outside with them I had my Doberman on a steel cable but only had them out like that for a very short time.That way the little dog can get away from the bigger dog. In my situation Patches the Dachshund could go under the couch to get away from Buddy the Doberman then it it was funny Buddy would stick his head under the couch have his butt stuck up in the air. Then it was like Buddy asking I'm sorry will you come back out and play I promise I will be nice. That is the way you do it good luck.
Forgot you only have to do this until the Doberman is older and trained about 3 years old but you still have to be careful even to this day I crate Patches if we leave just for safety sake too much difference in size.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Wow thank you everyone for the replies!!!

Jersey was actually scheduled for a routine check up about 3 days after the incident and I should have taken her in earlier that day when my husband came home... and we did have the vet check her eyes due to the fact that the whites have turned a darker color and she did examine her (same vet for Panzer too- same Dr I mean) and she said her eyes were ok... even after the poke that happened.

I do use the same bowl because of the same deal with treats and toys because when I put food in her smaller bowl, he will steal from it before she gets a chance. I will use two bowls from now on...

We have one of those stake things in the yard-- with a 25ft line. will that work for a long enough line for him? or am i missing the point completely? I have a hardness for him too so he can wear that instead of run full speed and choke himself.

I have a lot of work to do today... here i go... Play went well yesterday with both of them together- they played tug a lot with some toys and a lot less biting at the pug.

Patches' Mom- Happy Birthday to your boy!


Thanks again for all of the replies. I really appreciate them all and will relay the info to my husband when he gets home today :D
 

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I would feed them in different rooms or in their crates if they have one. I have 2 dobermans, 3 chihuahuas and usually a small breed foster and don't ever let them eat together even if they don't mean harm it is way to risky to have the little ones around excited dobes during mealtime.
Also for playing in the yard even a 7 my male dobe sometimes gets to wound up when the chi's play so he gets removed from the yard until he calms down. Dobermans are notorious for running into and injuring their people http://www.dobermantalk.com/doberma...ur-doberman-has-unintentionally-hurt-you.html small dogs don't have a chance
 

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What you're describing is perfectly normal. From my experience, the only thing that will really work is getting your dobie tired before your two dogs interact. Have the dobe play at the dog park or take him for a very long walk. If you allow them to interact when he is full of energy there's probably no amount training that will make the dobe not want to play with the pug.

When they do play, supervise the situation until you think they're too rough. Then, separate them physically. Don't just tell the dobe "NO" when he's in a very excited "playing state." Physically separate them.

What's unacceptable is any possessiveness from either dog. Don't let the dobie take anything from your pug and especially from you. Work on a "dont touch" command or "leave it command" and an "okay" command for when it's okay to take something (I find this works great with feeding time especially).
 

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To the OP. What is it that your husband is doing with the dog? Not to be rude but it sounds like not a lot of training going on??? It sounds like you are left with the responsibility? IMO I would go to a good trainer for some OB classes. I expect manners from my dog in the house, but you have to teach them first. We have small children and cats and can't have a possesive and overbearing dog in the house. Start from scratch, get the crates do the crate training, along with the other cues that were mentioned above (leave it, ectra) then when you are outside the dog is attached to you by a leash so you control the situation untill you get a solid dependable response from the dog. I would never leave the 2 dogs together unsupervised. I don't think you have behavioural problems (yet) You have a young dog that doesn't know the boundaries and what is expected of him. He can go off leash once you get a dog that understands what is expected of him and you get a solid response from your cuesnd that doesn't happen over night! Best of luck;)
 

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Yes I feed Patches in the house Buddy gets fed in the garage but when the weather gets cold I feed Buddy in the Utility room with the baby gate up.Buddy is really good with Patches but why push it my motto rather be safe than sorry in my case 76# difference in weight.Good Luck
 

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We have one of those stake things in the yard-- with a 25ft line. will that work for a long enough line for him? or am i missing the point completely? I have a hardness for him too so he can wear that instead of run full speed and choke himself.
You don't tie him out, do you? That's not something I'd recommend, because of the danger to his neck and throat. Personally, I teach mine to tolerate being tied, just in case of an emergency, but don't routinely tie them out.

A long-line is a long leash (I use a 30' one). You can buy one, but it's easy enough to make your own. You just hook it onto his collar (or harness, if you prefer), and let him drag it. When he starts to get too rough with the Pug, you can simply grab the long-line, and reel him in like a fish. It goes without saying that he will NEVER be unsupervised while on a long-line.

Long-lines are also useful when teaching "Come".
 
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I have 2 Terriers and 1 Dobe, (all male, yeah I know, big mistake but there you go, didnt know that at the time I got my Dobe).
Toby is a bully with the little ones, he will get hold of the back of their necks and rag them given the opportunity, he will also play nicely, but I have come to the conclusion it isn't worth the risk.

Toby is fed seperately from my 2 Terriers, never the 3 shall meet until meal time is over, if they leave anything it gets taken up. No toys are left laying around so that squabbles can erupt. They are never left unsupervised, even with supervision it can erupt into a scuffle, but thankfully a sharp warning usually seperates them now.
I crate and rotate if I am not in a position to supervise them.
I take them seperate walks now as Toby becomes too excited and grabs at the Terriers and then scuffles begin, so I get twice as much exercise as I used to, you would think I would be built like a racing snake wouldnt you, nope, still fat.
I do not play with them unless they are seperated.
I have done a lot of work with Toby to stop him in his tracks, he still stalks the boys but a sharp call now usually gets him out of his trance, but not always, that is when I have found a ball aimed at his backside is a wonderful tool. It gets his attention in 2 ways I then remove him from the situation.

Good luck with the twosome and keep us informed as to progress.

By the way, if you can find a good obediance class go along, your boy will learn manners from going and you will gain confidence in how to deal with situations. :kiss:
 

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Kiss was really awful around little dogs for a long time. I enrolled her in doggie day care and since then she is really good with little dogs. Maybe your dog just has way too much energy that needs to be released. I know that doggie day care gives my dog the chance to be away from me and have other people handle her, which is good because she really is a momma's girl. It also gives her much needed time to play dog that humans just can't do. So she's really great with "little" dogs now. My daughter has a tiny Yorkie that I was really worried Kiss would break some of her bones when she pounced on her. She wouldn't try to maul her, but her jumping on her and pinning her to the floor wasn't a good thing, either.:)
 

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Ah Dobejazz, I just had to go to that link. LMAO.........OH, how true to those incidents!:roflmao::smileystooges::hehe:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Casino Royale-- You are right! he isnt really training like I thought he would... I mean... he takes him for walks around the pond and yard on the leash, tells him to sit here and there... not much else going on. I had it in my head he was going to do a lot more. I never was a dog person until the pug came along a little less than 2 years ago. even at times with the pug would I get mad- it was his idea to get a dog... but i would always be cleaning up the messes she made and would feed her... everything. He would work a lot and never be home so the pug and I grew really close. Now he is in between jobs (we moved out of state) and has time to train but i dont really see it happening. If i say something about how I thought the dog would be trained (he sure made it sound like he knew what he was doing-- reminds me of My Cousin Vinny the movie where he doesnt know what he is doing but will learn as he goes lol) he thinks i am nitpicking on him.

Rosemary- we literally used the tie out stake 3x since we got him. We bought it because we didnt know the fence was going to be finished in one day but it was... he was on it yesterday while i was grilling out near the pond and i saw him run at the pug (stalk mode) and nearly choke himself. I wanted my husband to put his harness on so it wouldnt hurt his neck but he left the collar on. He was out there for about 20 mins or so.

Pug eats in the den (we moved Panzer's crate) and Panzer eats in the kitchen... :) Its working this way and the pug gets to eat more than 2 pieces of kibble at a time.

Another thing is my husband said that I dont let the dogs get away with anything. I try and watch them like a hawk and i catch them at times doing something they shouldnt like stick their face into a trash bin... Basically he is saying i always say NO and dont give enough praise. You are right- i try and correct both of them if they get into something but it doesnt mean i dont go and pet them or cuddle with them. as a matter of fact, I want Panzer to cuddle more without chewing on my arms and hair. lol I carry him around like a big baby (he is like 45lbs now) and but wont happen for much longer but he seems happy and doesnt bite on me when i do that.

One thing that we have to get under control that Panzer will run away (more like gallop) when he knows he does something wrong. If i say No at him for biting at a throw rug, he will run off... then come back and try again. I guess what I am saying is, how do i say NO to him and have him sit so he knows what I am talking about? Its kind of like when he bites my arms and legs and i say No and give him a toy... he doesnt run off then but i want to show him what is OK to chew on...

i am just rambling now. I hate to say it but i feel a bit stuck with the doberman... I love animals, dont get me wrong... and i was all in for this but its not as nice around here as it could be if he were helping me train him instead of saying- oh, he is just a puppy and he will grow out of it... or that is how dogs play (when he would bite Jersey's tail and sides). I feel like i am the bad person here because it seems like all i do is say No and I must admit that this has caused my husband and I to become more touchy and argue a bit more.

Night time is a nightmare. I dont go to sleep until 2am. My husband falls asleep at about 8 or 9 (basically after he eats) I take Panzer out, we play a bit, I give him some toys to chew on when he comes back in and wait for him to tire out and sleep. When about 2am rolls around and Panzer has been asleep for a few hours (he sure wakes up A LOT at night) then I take the pug and we go into the bedroom. Panzer sleeps out here in the living room with James. Panzer will not sleep in his crate for long. he will cry and whine... then he will most likely go to the bathroom on himself (it seems he has to go every 2 to 4 hours-- is that normal for an almost 4 month old)? Basically we sleep on shifts now... i take the later one. lol

Off to clean the den. Husband is wondering what i am doing here with all this typing...

Thanks for the replies.... :)
 

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Another thing is my husband said that I dont let the dogs get away with anything. I try and watch them like a hawk and i catch them at times doing something they shouldnt like stick their face into a trash bin... Basically he is saying i always say NO and dont give enough praise. You are right- i try and correct both of them if they get into something but it doesnt mean i dont go and pet them or cuddle with them.
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One thing that we have to get under control that Panzer will run away (more like gallop) when he knows he does something wrong. If i say No at him for biting at a throw rug, he will run off... then come back and try again. I guess what I am saying is, how do i say NO to him and have him sit so he knows what I am talking about? Its kind of like when he bites my arms and legs and i say No and give him a toy... he doesnt run off then but i want to show him what is OK to chew on...
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Night time is a nightmare. I dont go to sleep until 2am. My husband falls asleep at about 8 or 9 (basically after he eats) I take Panzer out, we play a bit, I give him some toys to chew on when he comes back in and wait for him to tire out and sleep. When about 2am rolls around and Panzer has been asleep for a few hours (he sure wakes up A LOT at night) then I take the pug and we go into the bedroom. Panzer sleeps out here in the living room with James. Panzer will not sleep in his crate for long. he will cry and whine... then he will most likely go to the bathroom on himself (it seems he has to go every 2 to 4 hours-- is that normal for an almost 4 month old)? Basically we sleep on shifts now... i take the later one. lol

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I'm currently dealing with a 14 week old GSD, and remembering why it is that I don't "do" puppies. Like the fact that I had to leave the computer just now, and go clean up an accident. Her first one in days, but still...

Okay, the getting into stuff they shouldn't, like the trash, is where teaching "Leave It' comes in handy. By teaching "Leave It', you can redirect them in a positive way, (reward for leaving something alone when told)instead of a negative way (being yelled at).

The running off after you tell him "No" isn't because he "knows" he did something wrong (ie, chewing the rug, getting into the trash), its because of the attitude you projected. This is another case where "Leave It" comes in handy. After "Leave It", give an appropriate chew toy.

Also, fussing for something they did five minutes ago won't do any good, because, as my trainer puts it, "they don't have a concept of the passage of time". For example, you leave the house for five hours, they are crazy excited that you came home. Leave the house for five minutes, they are just as excited to see you come home. People who say, "Oh, my dog knows they did something wrong while I was gone." really just mean, "Oh, my dog knows I'm going to yell at them when I get home.".

Bedtime can be rough. One of the easiest ways is to take up his water at a set time, usually an hour or two before bedtime. Take him out one last time, put him in his crate, and leave. If he really fusses, and you think he needs to go out, make the going out as low-key as possible. Just put the leash on, and go out. NO playing or excitement. Then, back into the crate. If he can't hold it through the night yet, you can set you alarm to get up and take him out.

Leontine has been dry for the past four mornings, thank goodness, and rarely has an accident in her crate now. Usually she will let me know when she needs to go out, or else I just take her out whenever I think she might need to go.

I still strongly recommend training classes for both dogs. Look for someone who used positive training methods (clicker, etc.). Your Pug will benefit too. I took my Rattie in for training when he was 10, because after I got Ilka, I started having trouble with him. This was on TOP of trying to train a high energy, high drive puppy. Lucky got his CGC at age 11, and training both Lucky and Ilka has been a huge help in everyday life. Leontine started Puppy class the week, so she can get off to a good start on training for whomever winds up adpoting her.
 
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