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Barking at strangers...

3651 Views 19 Replies 12 Participants Last post by  BackInBlack
Just curious to see who's Dobe does this. I know Bruno is only protecting. But it's getting a bit much lately. We'll be driving down the road and he'll see someone walking, maybe close to our van. And he'll just start barking and growling at them lol. I don't want ppl to be scared of him. But I also don't want to give him trouble for something that's in his nature to do.

He starts obedience on the 23rd. I can't WAIT. I'm really hoping they will give me something to get him trained on this and a few other things.

OH--and he is barking if ANYONE is near our yard LOL. Being that it's spring time. Ppl are out all over the place. Yesterday my poor neighbour was trying to rake her yard and was talking to another neighbour and Bruno saw them, they were on the edge of our property and he just went barking mad. I like that he likes to let me know there is someone there. But to the point he will not stop barking. I don't want that. I also don't want my neighbour's complaining about him. Because, I hate to say it. But they're older and they really are not that nice. They've already said stuff to us to make me feel like they think I'm young and no good. So just seeing that I have a Doberman, which they already voiced they didn't like. I can just imagine they'd call on me because he was barking at them :/ I don't want that. Ya know?

Anyway I guess basically I just wanna know if anyone else has this "problem" (I really hate to think of it as a problem). If so, did you do anything that made it a little more tame? Any suggestions? Am I crazy for thinking I could actually get him not to growl/bark at strangers? lol.
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I find I have the opposite problem when we're outside. If abby sees a stranger that looks at all like they may come near us she starts getting excited and whining to go and meet them. If she's inside the house she'll bark like crazy at any passerby's.
hmm jack isnt to that point yet.. the ONLY time he barks is when he plays.. if my other 2 boys are barking he runs to the door like what the hecks happening.. kinda unsure about it all.. and when we go to the flea market he could care less about the ppl.. he will go right up to them and sniffing..hes pretty calm besides when he is playing.
If we are in crowds or walking him. He's fine with strangers (after a minute or two. When we assure him it's okay). It's just inside the house and when he's in the van lol. He goes NUTS!!

Apparently my neighbour's friend is a nice lady LOL. I just took Bruno out for a pee. My neighbour's friend is over helping her spring clean her yard I guess. She saw Bruno and dropped her rake and came over right away and asked if it was okay to pet Bruno (of course Bruno is barking at her with hair on his back up...). But after I showed Bruno it was okay. He let her pet him LOL. She said she use to have a Dobe herself and loves the Breed. I was like WHOO. So you can tell your friend there they're GREAT dogs haha. She then proceeded to tell me how good looking he ways :D hehe. That felt great ;)
A dog should only protect if they have a real reason. People who are simply walking around far outside his yard and minding their own business are not a threat and he should feel confident enough not to have to bark or growl at every single person he sees. If he does bark to let you know they are there that is one thing, different than continuing to bark and carrying on and on...

Also, he shouldn't be raising his hackles when he meets someone new especially not a friendly stranger. That is a big red flag. Puppies raise their hackles to look bigger and deal with something they are unsure about. He should not be barking at every person who wants to come pet him. It is not normal for a young 6 month old to react that way to friendly strangers. Bruno needs to be socialized more so he doesn't react that way when meeting new people. You say he is okay with new people after you tell him it is okay, in what way do you tell him it is "okay?".

You might want to not tell him its okay (like coddling him and telling him not be worried) it would be better to tell him to stop acting like that, tell him to stop acting so spooky and don't do any coddling.

Same for objects (not people or dogs)
For example, when you are taking walks around the neighborhood and he sees an object that concerns him and starts barking/hackling you should make him “go check it out”. That will help build his confidence that the object isn’t so scary after all. Lead him up to the object (like a fire hydrant or plastic baggie caught on a tree) and tell him to “check it out”, encourage him to investigate the object, even though he is scared of it. Do not coddle him, do not tell him it is okay, just simply insist non-emotionally he must check it out. When he figures out it is not a threat he won’t have a reason to be scared.

If the dog is inside the car and someone is walking beside the car that is not reason to go berserk. My male is protective, but he doesn't bark/growl at anything unless he perceives a threat. If he wants to let me know someone is in the property he barks but doesn't carry on and on and will stop when I tell him to.

At 6 months old Bruno is not protecting. Don't fool yourself. That kind of behavior at 6 months old is not protection. He is not feeling confident and is voicing his insecurity about the issue by barking and growling. Young Dobermans with stable and confident temperaments shouldn't feel the need to "protect" at such a young age, esp. when there is nothing to protect against, you are not being threatened.

The protection instinct doesn't come until later and there is no reason to be protective of people walking by far away that aren't bothering him.
That is why only mature dogs can take the go through things like the WAE. Dobermans are naturally protective; this type of behavior does not need to be helped along by their owners.

I find my male Doberman is very protective but is also a therapy dog, a show dog in obedience and rally, and is extremely well socialized. He has never been trained for protection. At 6 months old he wasn't protective at all, he was just a happy typical tornado high energy boy puppy.

As you yourself said, you don't want Bruno doing this, so don't let him. Let him know what is inappropriate and what is okay. Give him some direction. You are the leader after all. You can let him bark some under some circumstances, but when you say stop, it is time to stop. I think going to training classes will help out a great deal.

This type of behavior should not be encouraged in young dogs. If you keep letting him do this, it will get worse.
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I do NOT let him do this. He is also going to Obedience on the 23rd.

Bruno doesn't bark at ppl a far distance. The way my yard is, is the road is RIGHT in front of my window, sort of. There is some grass and then road. If someone is on the side where our property is. Bruno will bark. If they are down the road, or pass our property. He could care less. He will leave it be.

When I say he settles down once I let him know it's okay. What I do is I put my hand to the stranger's hand. Then he will come to my hand and he will see it's okay. He will then stop his nonsense and allow the stranger to talk to him and if they want, pet him. He has no problem with meeting ppl. He's been socialized since he was 7 weeks (he comes everywhere with us, in the van and out of the van. He is rarely EVER left at home. Since I am a stay at home mom. I do have the time to be with him. So he meets different ppl daily. I take him for walks down our main street as much as possible. And this is why I say it's a protective thing. Because, if we're walking and there are ppl all around. He doesn't care. He pays no mind to them. Most times, if not all. IF we are walking and someone comes up to us or we stop to talk. He also doesn't care. He won't bark or growl. This is also the case when I had my son's birthday party in my home. I had a good 15-20 ppl here (including children from 3yrs-10yrs). He was fine with all of them. He loved it. He went and visited with each person. But the minute it's someone coming onto our property or walking by our van when we're in it. He barks and growls. These are the only two times he does it. It's frustrating because I don't want ppl to think he's vicious (he's far from vicious). But I also don't want him to think he shouldn't warn me if someone is coming too close.
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I wouldn't worry about it...Duchess is the sweetest dog ever with people and sometimes I wonder what I'd do if I ever got pulled over by a policeman with the dogs in the car. She will bark at strangers until she knows for sure that they are okay. If the environment is a personal the home or car...then duchess will bark and growl...but if it is a little more public like the pet store or the dog park she wont bark at all unless she has reason.
When I walk Holly around and people come up to her she backs away when the person trys to pet her ( Sometimes ) then she goes up to them and snifs them and lets them pet her She has to check them out first. I take her out constantly shes around strangers alot she should be fine. I went to the dairy queen today and other people were there holly trys to go over to them and snif them and stuff. The only thing that bothers me alot is when were on the bike trail when someone is behind us she looks and looks back at them and stops and watches or jumps when the pass us.
I agree with Dobesanddragons. The raising of the hackles is a sign of the puppy not being confident in the situation. That is not a bad thing in a puppy, they have to learn how to cope with the world. But he is not protecting you. You are not in danger in the first place, and neither is he, but he sort of thinks he might be.

It sounds like he needs more socializing, by which I mean get him out more where there are lots of people, like sitting with him in front of a supermarket or outside a mall, where he can see lots of people coming and going. Don't let them interact with him, just have them ignore him. Eventually they can start handing him treats if they want to.

You touching the strangers' hands to tell him it's okay does tell him that, because you touching the person and not being harmed tells him it's safe. That shows he's not protecting you, he's letting you protect him. Also fine for a puppy who's unsure. Just keep in mind that that is what he is, he's not a big protection dog(yet).

The one part I disagree with D&D about is the part I quoted below. I wouldn't insist that the puppy investigate any object he's concerned about. Instead I would just ignore it. I made that mistake with Mic, and turned a fire hydrant into a big traumatic experience for him that didn't have to happen. Later I read in an article by a noted breeder, Vic Monteleon, who has made a study of breed temperament, that the best thing is to ignore such fears in a puppy, that signals to the puppy that there is nothing to be concerned about.

Same for objects (not people or dogs)
For example, when you are taking walks around the neighborhood and he sees an object that concerns him and starts barking/hackling you should make him “go check it out”. That will help build his confidence that the object isn’t so scary after all. Lead him up to the object (like a fire hydrant or plastic baggie caught on a tree) and tell him to “check it out”, encourage him to investigate the object, even though he is scared of it. Do not coddle him, do not tell him it is okay, just simply insist non-emotionally he must check it out. When he figures out it is not a threat he won’t have a reason to be scared.
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I can't really tell you how to overcome this, I'm still figuring it out myself but I can share what we've been doing and how it has worked...

Bruno is doing the same thing at about the same age as Chi. Like you, I'm a stay at home mom and take Chi with me just about every where I go. Since she's been a super young pup, she's been nervous around strangers and would do what Holly does (try to back behind me when someone approaches).

She did the same thing in the car and OMG it was a pain in the butt. We took many a short trip around base to just sit in crowded parking lots to get her past that :) And she's much better now, people can approach the car and talk to me now, the gate guards can reach in the window for my ID and I won't have to worry about them pulling back a bloody nub :)

One crucial mistake I made was to do so much of her training and socialization away from the house. Even after the "I'm gonna eat the guy" incident about 2 weeks ago, I can still take her to a public area with no worry; it's her home neighborhood that's the problem. Learn from my mistake! Take every opportunity you can now to teach him how he's supposed to act outside.

I've done what Micdobe and DandD have suggested. I had great luck in encouraging her to eat treats off of the oddly shaped tree that she about had a heart attack over but seem to be making the most progress with just ignoring stuff. I'm working on firmly establishing myself as the leader (I think too much coddling early on when she started reacting like this hampered that a bit) NILIF is working so well with that. The theory is that as long as she knows I'm the leader and that I have everything under control, she has nothing to worry about and therefore no need to aggress - seems to be working very well so far. Think about it if you were walking down a dark, spooky alley at night with a 3 year old, you'd be much more defensive and scared than if you were walking down that same street with a line backer - but if something did happen and push came to shove, you'd react if you had to - That's where I want Chi.

Get the book Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson - read it several times (won't be a chore, it's a great book). If you aren't already, start working closer to home as well as out about the town. Pick a day where there will be high traffic on your street, put the leash on Bruno and start working obedience with him (you're class will give you plenty of homework, I'm sure :). I've also found that the more excited I get (either nervous that she will aggress, or happy that she's done well) the greater the chance she will react. I keep everything as nonchalant and low key as possible. Corrections are quick, I do not dwell on them and have gotten timing down to a science - Rewards as just as quick and calm - a calm and sincere "good girl" or a tidbit calmly offered (not tossed in the air, which is what I used to do, but that just puts her over the edge with excitement). I have the best luck if she's a bit worn out when we start working on stuff. I take her to the field next to our house, run her through a few commands and then launch the frisbee until she's panting pretty hard and then it's time for a walk and more training.

Consistency is the key. You might find different methods work better for different perceived threats but the important thing is that you remain consistent with your work. Just because he'll let a stranger walk up to your yard one day, doesn't mean he'll allow it the next day. I've learned that this is very much a process.

Here are a few links that have provided me with very valuable information: - this page offers two clicker training exercises that we work with to build her confidence and keep her attention on me. - this article deals more with blatant aggression as opposed to fear aggression (which I believe both our dogs suffer from) but it is very interesting. - full of stuff that we already know but great reminders :)

Okay, rather than list every link to every article I love on this site, just go to and read everything :)

Good luck, keep up the good work - obedience classes will help in building his confidence and exposing him to different situations and it's a lot of fun :)

*** edited to add ***

Just telling Chi "no" is useless. She is very much a thinking dog that needs a job. I do still tell her "wrong" but then redirect her to something else, "sit/stay" "heel" even follow the frisbee (I keep the frisbee in my hand and move it around, she has to keep her attention on it and we've actually gotten to the point where she will weave between my legs :)
If we're walking and I see someone or something approaching that she will more than likely react to, I change directions quickly with no warning or cue to her. I know people think I'm nuts when they pass us and I'm walking circles with her - but it's teaching her to stay focused on me, not what is around her so much.
My attitude either makes or breaks our training. If I am stressed or reactionary, she will be too. When I am calm and not completely focused on her, she's the same. This little tidbit has only come recently. I've noticed how much better behaved she is when Jordan and Petri are walking with us. But when Jordan is with us, I'm talking to her and cutting up and not obsessed with Chi. I'm much more relaxed and positive and that attitude travels down the leash.
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The raising of the hackles is a sign of the puppy not being confident in the situation. That is not a bad thing in a puppy, they have to learn how to cope with the world. But he is not protecting you. You are not in danger in the first place, and neither is he, but he sort of thinks he might be.
I totally believe this. He is a scared puppy. I know this. He's nervous around new things. Exactly like you said. If something is different, he gets nervous. Which is something we are working at. Exactly like you (and Tracy) said my introducing them to him and getting him use to being around these different things. Like a few weeks ago he was scared of the pots and pan cupboard. Because it made a loud noise while I was getting a pot out and he was right beside it. For the 2 weeks I got him to come into the kitchen while I put the pots away or got one out. He is now no longer scared of them. So we are working on that. I also hope that like Tracy said. The obedience will help with ALOT of this. Another reason why we are bringing him (I've already talked to the guy in charged and let him know Bruno was a nervous dog etc etc and his vet and I also discussed it).

I will take the advice to bring him to a busy place. Problem with doing that when he was younger. Was it was winter when he was a small puppy. Not many places were busy. If they were, no animals allowed ;) That's why we used our families/friends as ppl to get use too (which he's excellent with now). Now that the weather is nicer I've been bringing him to more locations and different places. Places he doesn't know that well. Which I hope will help.

Tracy, I'm so glad I'm not alone in this ;) I guess it's pretty common. There's always gotta be the nervous one lol. I think with much work and reading (thanks for the links as well, I will be book marking that). We will progress. :D
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I agree with everything you said Micdobe. Ignoring works too and I have used that technique.
I said introduce the puppy Dobe to the object of concern because of my experience. When the breeder of my male puppy and I were walking some Doberman puppies around an area about two years ago my male puppy hackled and growled at a hydrant.

The breeder of the Dobermans has been breeding for over 30 years and said for me to let him check it out so I did. He just didn’t know what it was and it concerned him. After he knew, he was okay. He has since encountered many hydrants without issues. I totally agreed when the breeder said the worst thing you can do is coddle them, pet them, reassure them everything will be all right, and tell them it is okay because that has been my experience too.

Same with the plastic bag, we were in a highly wooded area alone with a bag caught on a branch. It was very windy so the bag was looking very odd. He was a young puppy and was concerned, acting very unsure. So we went to go investigate and after that there wasn't any problems.

With other dogs that are learning about the world and unsure I have used Tracy’s approach, placing treats on the object to desensitize them and make the object have a new meaning. Particularly one Chihuahua in my life is lacking confidence and this approach worked well for him as a puppy for things such as learning to go through the doggie door, etc.

But I agree micdobe, having them check it out isn’t always a good approach, most of the time it is better just to get on with life and let the dog know it isn’t a big deal.

I have seen many people use the Dobe’s protective nature as an excuse for certain behaviors and think those behaviors are inevitable simply due to the dog’s breed. I thought I would address that issue to let people know it isn’t protection that drives puppies to act that way; it is just that they are not confident yet.

Luv my Bruno, I didn’t mean anything negative by my post. I think you took offense based upon your response. Our outlook about the situation affects the way we treat the dogs. You asked for responses and sat down for a while to answer, just trying to be direct but yet helpful, not to offend.

Also, the places to take him for socialization are endless; I have taken rambunctious & cute puppies and well-behaved dogs into the car dealership where I get my oil changed, into the post office, the dog training facility, dog shows, kid’s playground’s, to kids sports games (soccer, tennis, football,etc.), outside of shopping malls (best time is winter during the holidays), pet stores, feed stores, large grocery stores (mostly just let the puppy/dog observe since not every wants to interact with the dog but sometimes I let people feed them a treat like Jessica said), the lake, parades, to work on certain days, puppy agility courses, camping, hiking, vacations, puppy kindergarten, get-to-gathers at friends/families homes (which I see you have done), parks (on leash), ponds, wooded areas with streams, ponds, and caves, in the car for short errands, drive-thru’s, the bank (young puppies can be carried inside and most banks have dog treats for dogs in cars or dogs carried inside), community pool, the vet for positive experiences (like to get weighed and get a treat), neighborhood walks for change in scenery, horse barn with horses, video stores, have even taken puppies that could be carried into some bookstores, the ocean/beach, some restaurants with large patios will allow puppies and well behaved older dogs to sit politely beside you while eating, and the list goes on and on, have fun with it and be creative

Socialization is one of my favorite things as you can probably tell.

He is still young and I think you will find that training, upping the socialization, more leadership, and reading the culture clash & links that Tracy suggested will help a great deal with your guy. =)
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Along the lines of socialization - I have found that it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission in some instances. The video store we rent from is only about 3/4 mile from the house. One day I had to take movies back and decided to walk Chi up to it. I didn't ask if it was okay to bring her in (the store wasn't at all crowded) but just quietly walked in with her at a heel and returned the movies. I made a point of taking them up to the clerk rather than just put them in the box to prolong our stay there. Nobody said a word about it. Now, Chi and I walk up the video store together every time I have to return movies :) She's quite popular up there. I also take her into the post office with me (I choose my times to go when it's not crowded) to check mail. I figure the worst that can happen is somebody will tell me to leave and not bring her back :)
The vet clinic is also within walking distance, we frequently walk up there, hang out in front at the dog walk area, sometimes go in for a drink of water and just to sit quietly in the corner.
I know at first I was frustrated because I couldn't find a decent ob class but have since figured out that with a little bit of creativity, we can accomplish our goals without one.
AND don't be afraid to ask people for help. In the field the other day a group of teens walked past. Chi about lost her mind (she was already excited because she new a game of frisbee was coming) - She saw them before I did but as soon as she started to react, I dropped the rope I was untangling and started putting her through her paces. I then hollered at the kids and asked them to hang out and walk around the field for a few minutes. They were happy to help and kept their distance. As soon as I had Chi paying attention to me and ignoring them, I hollered a thank you and they went on their way.

Like DandD said, it's a lot of fun; but it is also a lot of work. I really wish I had been this determined and creative 6 months ago, I don't think we'd have half the problems we do now but later is better than never :)
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Both approaches work, but for different circumstances. Investigating something new or just ignoring it. It really depends on the situation to use either method. Re-assuring when they are scared is okay, but try not to coddle them when they are scared. I believe this can reinforce to them that it is okay for them to be scared, which isn't good. Build confidence to experience new things.

We had an issue with walking over grates and metal covers for a bit. The reassuring didn't work well, so we just ignored it and just kept walking over them. Nikita soon realized it wasn't an issue, because I didn't think it was an issue. She soon walked over anything without a second thought. Getting her to go through her first tunnel, I had to use re-assurance. Well, actually I went through it first and then got her to do it, with some resistance. Once she went through it, she had no problem going through them again. She was scared at first, but she did it and then found out it was not a problem and accepted it.

So both techniques work, but it depends on the circumstances....
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I already do most of these socializing places. But I will also keep most other's in mind. Some of the things you just never think of. My time to bring him into places is limited when I do have my 4yr old with me (he's a wild one lol). But I do have days where I'm alone (school days). So I will try more of these.

I do bring Bruno with me everywhere. So we've been through MANY drive thru's (Tim Horton's is a favourite place for us hehe they always give him a timbit). He is very well behaved in drive thru's. He knows he'll most likely get a treat too so he gets ready lol. The gas station is also not a problem. He will let out a growl, but then stops.

What I find is when we're walking some where. He really doesn't pay any mind to anyone walking by or close. It's when he's in the house, or someone just walks up without warning (happens alot on the street. Some ppl have smarts enough to ASK before coming close. Other's just come right up into our faces). But I do agree it's a confident thing.

Thanks again. I will be working on this. Plus I think the Ob class will help him a great deal. Since there are other dogs (he loves to play with other dogs) and ppl to ineteract with. I will also bring him out on his leash at my son's school. To get him use to the kids. He does fine inside the car. But I don't think his reaction will be the same outside.

Anyway, ALL great tips. I thank you all again ;) I hope it's fun and a learning experience both Bruno and I can share together :D
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Lots of great advice so far, not much I can add to it. I will tell you about my experiences though. I was lucky enough to get a puppy that had begun socialization even before I got her, and it was constant socialization and exploration once I got her home. I am not an expert so I don't know if a 6 month old puppy should or should not be protective. From personal experience Princess started to bark around the house only when she was about 6-8 months. She has learned to bark to warn and will stop once asked to stop. Princess is now 14 months and is protective of the house my car, me, and my family members, and by protective I mean she checks out the strangers and keeps an eye on them. She is the nicest dobie I have ever

One thing I would say is that not all puppies grow up the same way and all you can do is try your best, which I think you are doing. Just make sure you remeber he looks to you for guidance and leadership.

Good Luck
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MrDesi said:
I am not an expert so I don't know if a 6 month old puppy should or should not be protective. From personal experience Princess started to bark around the house only when she was about 6-8 months. She has learned to bark to warn and will stop once asked to stop. Princess is now 14 months and is protective of the house my car, me, and my family members, and by protective I mean she checks out the strangers and keeps an eye on them.
This is exactly my Bruno. He only recently started to bark. I always thought he was so quiet and wondered if he could bark LOL. Because he just never would. Not until a few weeks ago did he start to bark at ppl/things.

I don't think Bruno is being "protective" per-say. But I mean protective the same way as you mentioned. He checks unknown ppl out. He always makes sure we're all together when we're going for his run. He will also make sure that we ALL are out of the car and going in the house at the same time. Now, I don't think that could be just me imagining that lol. Because Bruno will litterally stop in his tracks if one of my boys are not in his site. Either coming in the house or when we're out for a run. This is how I mean protective. I know he's not gonna lunge at someone right now if they were to break into my house. I do know he'd bark his full head off tho lol. ;)
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We had the same barking issue in the house around that age too...She would see someone walk by or even if a butterfly came by, she was barking. We didn't want to discourage the barking, just wanted to control it. So like the others, she can bark, but we would ask her to stop, she had to stop barking. It took alot of consistant training to do that. Our word for stop what you are doing was "Enough", so when she was barking and we said enough and she didn't stop, she got an immediate time out in her crate for 30 seconds. Then if she barked after she came back out, another time out for 30 seconds. In the crate, I would wait until she layed done and then give her 30 seconds.

This process worked for us and maybe you can apply this type of guideline some how into your routine. Nip it early....
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Let's see, in February we bought a house with a fenced back yard. It's a corner lot, so there is a sidewalk that runs by our backyard. Ever since Max figured out this is his new home (the move kind of confused him) He goes nuts when dogs walk past. This is almost a fight mode. His hackles raise & it is definatley, "this is my territory" type barking going on. The thing is, he will bark a little at people, but when the people either come in the yard or our home, he just wants to be petted. The barking stops & the hand flipping with his nose starts. However, due to past experience when we were in a duplex, I know this would not be the case if a dog entered the yard. Well unless it is his new girlfriend Sophie from 2 houses down.

Max goes to a "fun camp" at a local bording place & has no problems, so it seems he's ok with dogs not in HIS yard.

I'd like to break him of the barking when dogs pass by & his going insane when we get his leash out for a walk.
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I wont question the fact that they arent "protective" at this age. However, I do think that they start becoming "territorial" (did I spell that right??) Rommel does not give a darn one way or another, who comes up to us out in public, people want to pet problem....BUT, at home it is a different story. How dare someone enter our yard (or even look like they might) and let him see it. He goes nuts. I honestly dont know what he would do if someone came through our gate with him in the backyard, or came through the front door without me letting them in. (I lock my doors now, in case one of my "walk on in" friends stops by.) Like I said, on problem, public places, no problem, off leash at a field by our problem. Come near the house or the car though, and he flips. I think it is territorial, not protective.

One of the first things I taught Rommel was to "Gib Laut" (Bark) on command. We use it in Schutzhund, so the first time I heard him bark, I rewarded him and told him "good gib laut" I read somewhere that what you can turn on, you can turn off. I also use the word "enough" It works about 90% of the time. The other 10% still needs some work, but I would take Krattys advice, in fact....I might just try the 30 second crate trick.
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