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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this may get a little crazy...... I am in love with all dobermans, and I know every member of DT is as well. What I don't understand is all this hostility towards BYB's and so called "reputable" breeders. Not everyone wants to show their dobie, so I guess I don't see the problem with buying a doberman from a BYB. As long as some research is done, and the breeder raises the pups properly, what's the big deal? Health testing!!!??? If you have a history of cancer or heart disease, does that mean you are unfit to have children? I just think people tend to go a bit over board with all the pedigree, bloodline, and health testing talk sometimes. Isn't it about giving your dobie the best life possible?
 

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There are SOOOOOO many dogs dying in shelters and rescues. If you're not breeding the best of the best, then you shouldn't be breeding. If every breeder were reputable, there wouldn't be so many dogs in shelters. If anything ever happens to me, I have a contract with my breeder that my dog will go back to her. I had a BYB dog who died, young, at six years old. I'm pretty sure his breeder could give a **** less what happened to him, and whether or not it was genetic as long as she got the money.
I didn't want a show dog either, but I chose a breeder who did things with her dogs, raised them indoors, did health testing, and who actually cared about what happened to the pups.

There are tons of threads on this-you should read some. I hope that you'll never have to go through the heartbreak that many of us with BYB dogs have.
 

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What does that have anything to do with where the pup was bought?
A pup from a reputable breeder is less likely to end up in a shelter. It has happened before, but normally it is a breach of contract with the breeder.

...and I loved my GSD who was a MESS from a BYB. Wacky temperament and horrible health. Lesson learned.
 

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I used to agree with you. Then I was stupid and did not do all my research on my breeder, I completely regret purchasing from a her, as I believe she is a BYB. I love my baby more than anything in the world, but he's already had a few health scares, most of which have turned me into a crying mess. Not the silent tears running down your face, that horrible, fluid spilling, hyperventilating, sobbing disaster. They've all been devastating, and, although they've all proven to be false alarms or manageable, I often worry about more serious things. It will be extremely painful for us if Kaiser ends up with DCM at something like 2 because he has lousy bloodlines or something like that. Sometimes it feels like I'll spend all my time worrying about Kaiser getting DCM until he dies of something else, and that's something I didn't ever want to do. I don't know what I'll do if I come home one day and find him dead from something like that. I hate to think of him suffering, and I will probably always hate my breeder for not being a good breeder. I would strongly advise against BYB for your own mental health, if nothing else.
 

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I know this may get a little crazy...... I am in love with all dobermans, and I know every member of DT is as well. What I don't understand is all this hostility towards BYB's and so called "reputable" breeders. Not everyone wants to show their dobie, so I guess I don't see the problem with buying a doberman from a BYB. As long as some research is done, and the breeder raises the pups properly, what's the big deal? Health testing!!!??? If you have a history of cancer or heart disease, does that mean you are unfit to have children? I just think people tend to go a bit over board with all the pedigree, bloodline, and health testing talk sometimes. Isn't it about giving your dobie the best life possible?
Don't you think that starts with how its produced?

You can't compare having children with producing puppies. You're not having children to sell them to someone else. We don't have children "lemon laws" where parents may be held responsible for the defects bred into them - we do have them in some states for puppies. There is a lot that breeders can do to avoid certain problems in puppies -- shouldn't they HAVE to do that? You'd probably think it was a big deal if your puppy had a problem that the breeder could have done something about. Until you do, it's just not real to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Don't you think that starts with how its produced?

You can't compare having children with producing puppies. You're not having children to sell them to someone else. We don't have children "lemon laws" where parents may be held responsible for the defects bred into them - we do have them in some states for puppies. There is a lot that breeders can do to avoid certain problems in puppies -- shouldn't they HAVE to do that? You'd probably think it was a big deal if your puppy had a problem that the breeder could have done something about. Until you do, it's just not real to you.
Actually put it into perspective...... I appreciate the constructive insight. Thinking about it now, you are absolutely right. I would be downright heartbroken if anything unnecessary happened to my boy.....
 

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Because thousands of dogs are sitting in shelters. Alone. With their time running out. When the day comes that there is a SHORTAGE of purebred dogs I'll encourage people to breed "for the fun of it" but while amazing dogs are DYING in shelters there's hardly any excuse to be breeding at all. If a breeder does decide to breed, they'd sure as hell better be breeding the best of the best. That means the best health, the best structure, and the best temperaments.
 

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I love my dobie, even if he may not be show quality
Vegas isn't from a reputable breeder either, and she's certainly not show quality, but we love her more than we EVER thought we could. She's perfect, and she's the reason I'll have this breed for the rest of my life. But I'm scared to death that because her breeder didn't test Vegas' parents, she won't be here for very long, and honestly? I'm mad about that. I'm mad that the breeder just wanted our money, and didn't do their best to make the puppies as healthy as possible. I'm mad that we didn't sign a contract, and that Vegas' littermates could be sitting in kill shelters or tied up in back yards because they didn't require anything from their homes. How on earth wouldn't that matter?
 

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What does that have anything to do with where the pup was bought?
Plenty.

Within 25 miles of where I live in So. Calif. there are 3 Doberman Rescues. They are full to the rafters with the products of BYBers. I've rescued before, volunteered before, and will be soon getting a pup from a responsible breeder. I would have liked to rescue again, but finding a decent one is like a needle in a haystack. In general, the rescues are full of Dobes that should not have been bred. Many don't have either correct temperament or conformation. While there's no guarantee for health, BYBers don't even know the basics; many are so clueless that they don't even know what color pups to expect from a breeding. Or even to dock the tails. Hope this link works; this is typical around these parts:

DOBERMAN PUPPIES

What I've learned from speaking to the people that run the rescues is that about 90% of the dogs that they have were kept outside, many chained, no socialization, no training. In many cases, the owners knew squat about Dobes, but the seller took their cash without regard of whether the prospective owners could successfully raise a Doberman. This breed isn't for most people.

Keep in mind that this breed was originally an "engineered" breed. It is one of the toughest standards to meet; very easy to get off kilter. BYBers don't know their dogs and the dogs that made those and so on. Breeding is so much more than someone with a male getting together with the female down the street.
 

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If you have a history of heart disease, does that mean you shouldn't have children?
Actually, here are couples that go to genetic counselors for this reason exactly and yes, some times people choose not to have a kid because they don't want to produce a child that will eventually have to deal with a bad trauma. If I had a history of a disease like that in my family I personally would not reproduce.

That being said, people are a little different as an adult person can take care of themselves, animals cannot. Now, if you love all dobermans why would you want puppies coming into this world with a higher risk of suffering terribly? I think there's a thread on here about someone's dog who has DCM at two. TWO?! That's ridiculous! No, not all health problems can be avoided by even the best breeders, but most of them can.

I'm sure what I'm saying has all been said and this next part too... but you should volunteer at a shelter for a while. Find some time, please, and read this story... His name is Sam.
 

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I know this may get a little crazy...... I am in love with all dobermans, and I know every member of DT is as well. What I don't understand is all this hostility towards BYB's and so called "reputable" breeders. Not everyone wants to show their dobie, so I guess I don't see the problem with buying a doberman from a BYB. As long as some research is done, and the breeder raises the pups properly, what's the big deal? Health testing!!!??? If you have a history of cancer or heart disease, does that mean you are unfit to have children? I just think people tend to go a bit over board with all the pedigree, bloodline, and health testing talk sometimes. Isn't it about giving your dobie the best life possible?

Suppose in 6 months your dog drops dead in your arms, because of some genetic disease that could have been easily tested for. The parents both have this genetic disease. Would you go and buy another dog from those same parents? I mean who really cares about testing, you're not going to show the dog, right? Suppose you found out that in the past 3 generations of the dogs pedigree, a high percentage of the dogs dropped dead before maturity of this disease. Are you saying it doesn't matter, and it's ok for this breeder to keep selling the dogs? I mean they're just pets, they're not show dogs, so it's ok?
 

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If you have a history of heart disease, does that mean you shouldn't have children?
Yes.

And for the 890,496,968,779,123th time... DT and it's members love ALL Dobermans no matter where they came from. It is the greedy, poopy (I would like to infer an expletive here but don't want to be doghoused) people that produce them that piss us off.


Why don't we support BYB'ers? Ask the scores of people with Dobermans that have died young of heart disease. Ask the rescues who are currently trying to pull 2 "purebred AKC" Dobermans out of the Sacramento shelter right now. And the other rescues who are full up because King was cute and adorable at 5 weeks when they brought him home, but now is ignored so he doesn't have manners and is 100lbs of poor temperament.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Actually, here are couples that go to genetic counselors for this reason exactly and yes, some times people choose not to have a kid because they don't want to produce a child that will eventually have to deal with a bad trauma. If I had a history of a disease like that in my family I personally would not reproduce.

That being said, people are a little different as an adult person can take care of themselves, animals cannot. Now, if you love all dobermans why would you want puppies coming into this world with a higher risk of suffering terribly? I think there's a thread on here about someone's dog who has DCM at two. TWO?! That's ridiculous! No, not all health problems can be avoided by even the best breeders, but most of them can.

I'm sure what I'm saying has all been said and this next part too... but you should volunteer at a shelter for a while. Find some time, please, and read this story... His name is Sam.
that story made me cry...... I feel terrible...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
"Actually, here are couples that go to genetic counselors for this reason exactly and yes, some times people choose not to have a kid because they don't want to produce a child that will eventually have to deal with a bad trauma. If I had a history of a disease like that in my family I personally would not reproduce."


over 70% of American families have a history of heart disease.....I guess none of us should have children.
 
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