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Hello,

Anyone familiar with Azuos Dobermans in MA? I ran a search and didnt see any threads on them here, nor are they on the DPCA website, which is giving me pause, but I thought I'd at least ask. I also dont see anything negative on a brief search - just a write up in a local paper last year.

Any insight appreciated!

TIA
 

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I think it's really important to learn how to evaluate breeders yourself.

Have you read this sticky? https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/302410-how-do-you-find-responsible-breeder.html

This one: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/98378-i-don-t-want-show-dog-i-just-want-pet.html

This is a good article: Buying A Doberman Pinscher ? DPCA Breeder Education

This is a good read: https://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/7203-interesting-breeding-question.html

Now, after those...take a look again at that breeder (I know they have a FB page)...ask yourself if it's a breeder you'd like to buy from? Are they breeding dogs that meet the Doberman standard? How do you know? Are there dogs being evaluated by an outside source in any way? Is that important? Why? What else matters? Do they know the health in the pedigrees of the dogs they are breeding all the way back...let's say, 10 generations? Can they tell you what each of the dogs in those pedigrees died from? At what age? What other health conditions they might have had? What were their temperaments like? This is just a small start....
 

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I'd like to say upfront, I don't know this breeder, and didn't go look at their page<G>

That said. Not everyone involved heavily in Dobermans is a member of the DPCA, and even if they are, they may choose not to pay for a breeder listing, and even then, it's paid ads, do your due diligence, don't accept that ad content in any format or club listing is 'vetted' information. You, the buyer still need to do your homework.

A lot of folks do not show in conformation events. Not to say they aren't working with their dogs, but there is a whole other world out there who focus solely on working ability, and physical and mental soundness for the sport in which they choose to compete. Those breeders and dogs will likely not be listed on a breeder listing with DPCA. Are those breeders focused on health? You betcha, an unhealthy dog is not a good candidate for sport work, or SAR work or or or. The physical and mental demands placed on a working dog are tremendous, and they must be sound enough both in body and mind, to handle the pressures. Are these dogs likely to step foot in an AKC show ring and take it by storm? In most cases, no, they won't. Are they still 'good' Dobermans? Yes they are.

I would say the BEST way to look for a puppy is make a priority list for yourself. Be honest, it's only for your eyes. What are your goals with a puppy? Do you want to get involved in conformation shows? Performance events?(obedience, agility, or other) Sport work? (IPO, French Ring, Mondio) are you looking solely for a laid back companion dog to hang with you? Do you like to camp? Hike? Travel? Attend a lot of social gatherings with your dog? These are all things that will dictate the type of temperament most suitable to your lifestyle. Are dogs bred by breeders who don't compete bad dogs? Nope, not a given at all. A lot of very dedicated breed fanciers are out there, producing the occasional litter of pups out of well health tested parents, with an eye on longevity and mental soundness, and a number of those pups DO go on to compete in various venues with their new owners.

Be very clear in YOUR goals for a dog. Be very clear when sharing those goals with a breeder. Do not go looking for a working line puppy, to hang around and share the couch with you. Will they be happy to do that? Sure, sometimes<G> But they demand a LOT of training and mental stimulation to get to the hang on the couch point. Look for health clearances, cardiac, thyroid, hips, liver, kidney test results. On both parents. I like to have eye clearances as well, some breeders do eyes, some do not. There are reasons for this disparity that I won't go into, but no eye clearance is not always a sign of a 'sketchy' breeder.

Learn to read a pedigree. Learn where the databases are so you can research some things on your own. Dobermans have a ton of databases! A lot of information can be gleaned in this manner, longevity, accomplishments of the parents, pedigree health information, ability to look at the pedigree breadth, as well as depth.Don't be in a hurry to add a pup, they are all adorable, they are all deserving of good homes, but you need to make darn sure you get a pup that fits YOUR life, it's a decade(plus some hopefully!) long commitment, and if you get a nervy, screwy dog, or a dog with a ton of health issues inherent in their makeup, it's a decade long nightmare.
 

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Do they do anything with their dogs other than breed them? Four litters in the past 12 months with all of their own dams and same sire. HUGE red flag. It appears the primary motivation for breeding is profit. Only four Azous dogs show up on Dobequest, with no pedigree/age/health information except sire and dam on one and not a single title on any end. You can do better if you want to support the betterment of the breed.
 

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Uterus + sperm = $$$ for them. It can also equal huge $$$ for puppy buyers because they are not stepping outside of their own household to find the best possible male to breed to their females. Can they provide you with all the appropriate test results on every dog they are breeding? Since they aren’t even bothering to keep the puppies’ nails trimmed to prevent accidents I am betting my paycheck on NOPE.

Depressing. But there are many nice litters being produced by reputable breeders in this country. Join Facebook group “Doberman Pinscher Breeder Listings” and learn what a reputable breeder does as well as see posted litter announcements.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Got it - I asked about them a bit prematurely, as when I did just a bit further research, I realized they really werent up to par. Sorry for the delay in my reply - I've been traveling and the mobile site kept kicking me out.

Thanks for the thoughtful replies.
 

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I'd like to say upfront, I don't know this breeder, and didn't go look at their page<G>

That said. Not everyone involved heavily in Dobermans is a member of the DPCA, and even if they are, they may choose not to pay for a breeder listing, and even then, it's paid ads, do your due diligence, don't accept that ad content in any format or club listing is 'vetted' information. You, the buyer still need to do your homework.

A lot of folks do not show in conformation events. Not to say they aren't working with their dogs, but there is a whole other world out there who focus solely on working ability, and physical and mental soundness for the sport in which they choose to compete. Those breeders and dogs will likely not be listed on a breeder listing with DPCA. Are those breeders focused on health? You betcha, an unhealthy dog is not a good candidate for sport work, or SAR work or or or. The physical and mental demands placed on a working dog are tremendous, and they must be sound enough both in body and mind, to handle the pressures. Are these dogs likely to step foot in an AKC show ring and take it by storm? In most cases, no, they won't. Are they still 'good' Dobermans? Yes they are.
Super -helpful - thanks. I was wondering about this. What is the qualifier for being listed/what are some reasons breeders wouldnt be listed, etc.


Learn to read a pedigree. Learn where the databases are so you can research some things on your own. Dobermans have a ton of databases! A lot of information can be gleaned in this manner, longevity, accomplishments of the parents, pedigree health information, ability to look at the pedigree breadth, as well as depth.Don't be in a hurry to add a pup, they are all adorable, they are all deserving of good homes, but you need to make darn sure you get a pup that fits YOUR life, it's a decade(plus some hopefully!) long commitment, and if you get a nervy, screwy dog, or a dog with a ton of health issues inherent in their makeup, it's a decade long nightmare.
This is my next venture... I wanted to do a bit of research on my own before asking here about pedigrees, and see if I could figure some of it out on my own and then ask specific questions.

Thanks again for the insight.
 

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Super -helpful - thanks. I was wondering about this. What is the qualifier for being listed/what are some reasons breeders wouldnt be listed, etc.
For the DPCA listing, you have to be a club member, agree to follow the code of ethics, and pay to be included on the list.

For the AKC Marketplace, the only requirement is to not have your AKC privileges suspended or revoked. So basically anyone from a casual backyard breeder to a large scale commercial breeder to a good breeder can pay to advertise there.
 

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Also for every breeder listed on the DPCA referral there are probably 2 or 3 more good breeders that aren't listed there.
So true! If you are only an occasional breeder, being on the DPCA list is a PITA because you get a ton of calls and emails asking if you have puppies. My last litter was 6 years ago... my next one is probably 3 years down the road at this point. I took myself off of the DPCA breeder list a while ago.
 
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