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Never heard that breeder before! Even if this breeder have a good reputation it's better to adopt from the shelter or rescue than buying from any breeders out there.
 

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Even if this breeder have a good reputation it's better to adopt from the shelter or rescue than buying from any breeders out there.
I cannot agree with you. Different households have different needs, and what works best for you won't necessarily work best for me.

Support rescue, absolutely. Support rescue exclusively, no thank you.
 

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Never heard that breeder before! Even if this breeder have a good reputation it's better to adopt from the shelter or rescue than buying from any breeders out there.
I volunteer for rescue (getting ready to take in 11 puppies<---CRAZY LADY) and I don't agree with you either. If your option is to purchase from a byb, greeder or puppy mill or choose a rescue, 100% of the time rescue. If your option is to purchase from a rep. breeder or a rescue, then do what you feel is best but chances are much greater for a nicer dog who will have less health issues and live longer with the rep. breeder.
 

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Never heard that breeder before! Even if this breeder have a good reputation it's better to adopt from the shelter or rescue than buying from any breeders out there.
While I can appreciate the sentiment, I cannot appreciate the reality. I'm a rescue person, through and through. I've never had a dog that wasn't a rescue of some type, be they picked up as a stray while out and about (like Lucky, Ilka, and Leo) or a private rehome from someone who wasn't taking very good care of them (like Gin and Lily). That said, one of these days, I want to own a well bred dog from a good breeder.

Think about this: It is extremely rare to see a dog from a good breeder wind up in a shelter or rescue. Does it happen? Sometimes, yes, despite the breeders best efforts. However, the vast majority of dogs in shelters and rescues are the result of poor breeders (puppymills, greedrs, BYB, careless owners who let their bitch have an "oops litter", and others like them) who don't screen buyers properly, and owners who don't think twice about dumping an animal they no longer want.

This thread http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/218953-charts-different-kinds-breeders-flow-chart-should-i-breed-my-dog.html has a handy breeder comparison chart.
 

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While I can appreciate the sentiment, I cannot appreciate the reality. I'm a rescue person, through and through. I've never had a dog that wasn't a rescue of some type, be they picked up as a stray while out and about (like Lucky, Ilka, and Leo) or a private rehome from someone who wasn't taking very good care of them (like Gin and Lily). That said, one of these days, I want to own a well bred dog from a good breeder.

Think about this: It is extremely rare to see a dog from a good breeder wind up in a shelter or rescue. Does it happen? Sometimes, yes, despite the breeders best efforts. However, the vast majority of dogs in shelters and rescues are the result of poor breeders (puppymills, greedrs, BYB, careless owners who let their bitch have an "oops litter", and others like them) who don't screen buyers properly, and owners who don't think twice about dumping an animal they no longer want.

This thread http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/218953-charts-different-kinds-breeders-flow-chart-should-i-breed-my-dog.html has a handy breeder comparison chart.
I couldn't disagree. Maybe it's just me having bad experiences to breeders. I've lost my trust to them a long time ago, but I would not deny that there are still reputable breeders. It's just that, I can't just sit and watch when a dog needs me. I have been fostering shelter dogs for years and it's the best feeling I know.
 

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I would research the pedigrees of Kevlar dogs, he breeds Kimbertal offspring. Some of those lines are littered with DCM, Rio Od Stenovica especially. My RIO offspring died at 3.8yrs old RIO died around 5. Maxim 6. IN one case he's breeding RIO progrny to offspring of Chagall Best of Milano who's owner told me his "heart exploded" , again at 6 years old. I questioned Kevlar as to why they are doing this & lets just say his answers were lacking, to say the least. DCM is everywhere, it's rampant, but in this case what this guy in particular is doing is dumb & virtually guaranteed to cause premature heartbreak. I asked what his objective were, he has none, can only assume it's $$!
 

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Sorry, just wanted to comment because I found your dog's pedigrees.

Maxim Di altobello
Baron Nike Renewal
Fedor Del Nazi

All three of these dogs are KNOWN to have DCM in their lines. I would seriously think about not breeding the dog who is doubled up with 2 of these dogs in their pedigree (there could be more than one).

You are spot on but it's actually much worse than you even lead on. I know cause my pup was RIO progeny and he died from DCM shy of his 4th bday. RIO didn't make 6. Maxim died at 6. On top of that this guy is breeding to Chagall Best of Milanlo progeny, whose & I quote the owner "heart exploded" also at 6. DCM is everywhere but what Kevlar issuing is disgusting. The odds are astronomicaly high that those dogs won't live last 6. If you don't believe me just look up down RIO's pedigree. Most are dead shy of 7. They claim RIO died of "respiratory" and Maxim of "poisoning". If you believe that, well Kevlars got a dog to sell you.
 

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I just found this thread as i am not on social media for this reason. If you are going to spout your "options" all over the World Wide Web make sure you have the facts. Especially those that are touting themselves to be know it alls. We are all entitled to our opinions but opinions are exactly that, not facts. Everything that I have read about Kevlar Dobermans is completely false. But what do I know, they are just my dogs....all of you must know my dogs and business better then I. And to the person asking for advice, social media is the last place to be looking. And if said person has questions about us or our dogs its best to talk directly to us as we will tell you the facts; since we know our dogs best-pedigrees, health testing, temperaments, Etc. -best wishes to you all.
Let me throw you a bone of advice.

1) It's not the AKC breed standard, it's the DPCA breed standard, since you own the breed you should know that.

2) DCM is the number one killer of Dobermans, if you want to seem credible you need to be holter monitoring proBNP, echoing, and testing troponin.

3) Prove your dog's worthiness by competing in SOME venue, OB, working sport...

4) At the very LEAST post your dogs on dobermanreview.com

5) Stop advertising puppies like they're cars, don't breed until you have a waiting list so your puppies are all spoken for.

6)That looks like a Foxfire dog next to your logo, I'd take that down because that is a copyrighted image and they could shut your entire website down. And I'm getting ready to message Michelle right now so take it down quickly.

7) Those aren't your ribbons and that's false advertising, COME ON! One thing I hate are liars! If you're not going to compete then AT LEAST do all of the proper health testing! If you're going to make a buck off your cash cows at least try to sell the healthiest ones you can! This requires yearly testing of the heart (really it's twice a year)and thyroid, and knowing the dogs in your lines and what you're breeding too.

Best of luck, but if you want some respect on this site and in the Doberman community I'd seriously think about these 7 bones and change your current program.
Change? This place is breeding specifically for DCM dogs. Look up and down RIO's lines & find me the dogs that made to 7. The dogs they have should not be in a breeding program. He's breeding ultra high risk DCM to more DCM. It's disgusting.
 

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@ Bigben

You seem pretty much well intentioned, but this thread is basically necro. You are the first poster here in almost a year. Perhaps you should start a new one

John
Portland OR
 

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Zane, this thread is an old thread....many of the people who responded on it aren't even particularly active here anymore.

If you are looking for a breeder, or have a specific question about a breeder you know of, it would be better for you to start a new thread with a post of your own.
 

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Yeah, I know, ancient thread, but I couldn't resist looking at their website again. From their Available Puppies page... "Our pricing structure is as follows: $2000 pet quality i.e. significant flaw as in a large white spot on the chest, $2250 standard size on the smaller side with a light frame, $2500 mid-size Doberman with a substantial frame/bone structure, $2750 large European type but may be a little out of proportion in the frame, $3000 large European type with a proportional frame." :rolleyesww:
 
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