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Really? Is there a way you can find out without actually asking the breeders?
 

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If there a decent breeder they will tell you the true cause of death. Or they might say it was in a car accident, bit by a snake, drowned swimming honestly some will go to the biggest lie to protect there line, from not being bought. Unfortunately some do.
 

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JennSLK said:
So I was just looking here http://www.dobequest.org/profile.php?DOGID=1402

Why did he die? Does anyone know? Im interested in him only because Jazz's lines go back to his lines.
DANG! I didn't realize Catriel had died. It's true that anything that has a lot of Lex Luther in the lines seems to be ripe for liver problems but since I don't actually know what he died from I won't speculate.

But having been at a National where the dog got the first Award of Merit and watched him try to eat his handler since he was so allfired dog agressive he was after every male (and it looked like a couple of bitches as well) in the ring. He had succeeded in going up the leash after his handler at one of the host club specialties before the National and biting him. I was in front of him in line for a picture with another of the Award of Merit dogs when he freaked out and went for another dog and was very out of control--the herd of Specials evaporated and I ended up hiding behind a bank of lights while his handler managed to get him out a door into a snow porch without getting eaten again.

Catriel's dam produced a male in the litter she had before his where the dog was put to sleep for the same sort of out of control agression. It makes me suspicious of why he is no longer alive. Sire's of the two litters were not closely related.

Evidently there is something behind his dam with not so sterling temperament. I don't believe that a Doberman should be so dog agressive that they can't be handled by the average owner--I've had too many males in my live with Dobes to know that even very agressive dogs can be trained to not display the sort of behavior that Catriel displayed.

On the other hand I also met his brother Hurricane and one of his sisters and their temperaments were lovely. I'm sure you noticed that Catriel had a ton of offspring--this is a dog I'd never have considered breeding (if I bred Dobes). He spent quite a lot of time in South America and many of his offspring are from Argentine or Brazilian kennels.
 

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...having been at a National...and watched [Catriel] try to eat his handler since he was so allfired dog agressive...He had succeeded in going up the leash after his handler at one of the host club specialties before the National and biting him.
Catriel's dam produced a male in the litter she had before his where the dog was put to sleep for the same sort of out of control agression...
I have no idea if this is the same dog...this is just my experience with one A'Monde dog.

I attended an all-breed show in the early noughties, "window shopping" for black males. Was standing ringside and chatting with Ada Levine, who was handling Am Can Ch A'Monde's Bvlgari Extreme. Brando and Catriel share the same dam, Ch Carolon's Show N Tell WAC, but Brando is from a 1999 litter by Ch Lancaster's Courvosier v Trump CD ROM.

At some point I turned my attention from the show ring to Brando and saw he was giving me a very hard "I-hate-you" stare. I broke off eye contact and backed away slowly, keeping Ms. Levine between me and him. If memory serves me correctly, he also lunged at a number of dogs who passed him as they went in/came out of the ring.

ETA: I'm willing to consider that, as Ms. Levine was about to go into the ring, she may have been very nervous and anxious. Brando may have picked up on this and thought I was the cause of Ms. Levine's nervousness and anxiety and may have considered me a potential threat to his "mom". I don't know what Ms. Levine's state of mind was at the time, I'm just willing to consider this scenario as a possible explanation for the aggressive stare.

I need to research my show catalogs to verify the date/place/name of the show...
 

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DANG! I didn't realize Catriel had died. It's true that anything that has a lot of Lex Luther in the lines seems to be ripe for liver problems but since I don't actually know what he died from I won't speculate.

But having been at a National where the dog got the first Award of Merit and watched him try to eat his handler since he was so allfired dog agressive he was after every male (and it looked like a couple of bitches as well) in the ring. He had succeeded in going up the leash after his handler at one of the host club specialties before the National and biting him. I was in front of him in line for a picture with another of the Award of Merit dogs when he freaked out and went for another dog and was very out of control--the herd of Specials evaporated and I ended up hiding behind a bank of lights while his handler managed to get him out a door into a snow porch without getting eaten again.

Catriel's dam produced a male in the litter she had before his where the dog was put to sleep for the same sort of out of control agression. It makes me suspicious of why he is no longer alive. Sire's of the two litters were not closely related.

Evidently there is something behind his dam with not so sterling temperament. I don't believe that a Doberman should be so dog agressive that they can't be handled by the average owner--I've had too many males in my live with Dobes to know that even very agressive dogs can be trained to not display the sort of behavior that Catriel displayed.

On the other hand I also met his brother Hurricane and one of his sisters and their temperaments were lovely. I'm sure you noticed that Catriel had a ton of offspring--this is a dog I'd never have considered breeding (if I bred Dobes). He spent quite a lot of time in South America and many of his offspring are from Argentine or Brazilian kennels.
I had heard the same thing about Catriel having an aggressive temperament...I believe alot of time temperament is the result of environment along with genetics. The S.A.'ns train their males to be tough, as it gives them tha "macho" look.
Like you said Hurricane had a great temperament...Some people that have one of my bitches bred to Camelot (Hurricane) and got wonderful temperaments and said he was a really neat dog.
What is ironic (sad actually) is Hurricane was pts because his owner passed away and it was in her Will that her dogs be buried at the same time as she was.....sad....as he was a sweetheart! His owner loved her dogs so much she didn't want them to end up in the wrong hands....I respect her decision but I don't agree with it!!
There was a bitch pts as well at the same time..Camelot was only 7 or so and the bitch was younger.(I was told this by a reliable source).
 

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I have no idea if this is the same dog...this is just my experience with one A'Monde dog.

I attended an all-breed show in the early noughties, "window shopping" for black males. Was standing ringside and chatting with Ada Levine, who was handling Am Can Ch A'Monde's Bvlgari Extreme. Brando and Catriel share the same dam, Ch Carolon's Show N Tell WAC, but Brando is from a 1999 litter by Ch Lancaster's Courvosier v Trump CD ROM.

At some point I turned my attention from the show ring to Brando and saw he was giving me a very hard "I-hate-you" stare. I broke off eye contact and backed away slowly, keeping Ms. Levine between me and him. If memory serves me correctly, he also lunged at a number of dogs who passed him as they went in/came out of the ring.

ETA: I'm willing to consider that, as Ms. Levine was about to go into the ring, she may have been very nervous and anxious. Brando may have picked up on this and thought I was the cause of Ms. Levine's nervousness and anxiety and may have considered me a potential threat to his "mom". I don't know what Ms. Levine's state of mind was at the time, I'm just willing to consider this scenario as a possible explanation for the aggressive stare.

I need to research my show catalogs to verify the date/place/name of the show...
Ada was showing her own dog??? I never knew that....as she is a very ...um how do I say this....oh well forget it...very attractive high society type lady...

I always thought she got one of those Latin guys, like Pacheao or something like that and a young latin dark haired girl with glasses showing her dogs. Even that Dr. Flavio (sp?) showed her dogs and Catriel for that fact..
And wasn't Brando usually shown by Estaban Farias? ....also I know Ann White shows alot of her dogs now.....
 

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his littermate, the Canadian champion is gone too, Mastermind would have a better idea of what happened there, that particular dog is also the grandsire of Lexx (Lexxsmom) and some other dogs owned by DT members.
 

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Half of my litter to the male here is dead. The boys seem fine in the litter they just turned 7 in September. But the girls died at four & five. Two girls died from seizures and the other cancer. The seizes are scary because these girls are Lexx's dam's half sisters. Lexx's mother and my girls were sired by Can Ch. Amondes Volcano. I wouldn't go down this road again. BTW I bred the same bitch to totally different stud and those pups turn 6 in May and are very healthy dogs.
 

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Ada was showing her own dog??? I never knew that....as she is a very ...um how do I say this....oh well forget it...very attractive high society type lady...

I always thought she got one of those Latin guys, like Pacheao or something like that and a young latin dark haired girl with glasses showing her dogs. Even that Dr. Flavio (sp?) showed her dogs and Catriel for that fact..
And wasn't Brando usually shown by Estaban Farias? ....also I know Ann White shows alot of her dogs now.....
I agree with you Retta. I have never seen or heard of Ada handle a dog at a dog show. I think that Kenya is mistaken.
 

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Ada was showing her own dog??? I never knew that....as she is a very ...um how do I say this....oh well forget it...very attractive high society type lady...

I always thought she got one of those Latin guys, like Pacheao or something like that and a young latin dark haired girl with glasses showing her dogs. Even that Dr. Flavio (sp?) showed her dogs and Catriel for that fact..
And wasn't Brando usually shown by Estaban Farias? ....also I know Ann White shows alot of her dogs now.....
I LOVED Brando. Wonder if he is still around. Poor Flavio died quite a while ago.
 

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This is a very interesting conversation

I have never seen Ada Levine show her own dogs ever; and I've been to the last 7 Nationals; right in the height of all these issues.

As for Brando I've never heard a whisper about him and a bad temperament; and usually you do. I loved Brando; and in fact was considering breeding to him; but it was just wayyy to complicated.

Lord knows I've heard; seen some things with Catriel.

I have a double Lex Luthor granddaughter and her daughter who is a Trotyl granddaughter; so quite a bit of SA in there and I have to tell you both have outstanding temperaments!! In fact all 3 of her puppies have great temperaments.

The boy puppy is actually training in French Ring right now and the trainers are extremely impressed with him (Mal people who have always said Dobes and FR don't go together).

The dam and the puppies are great with people; and kids.
 
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Ada was showing her own dog??? I never knew that....as she is a very ...um how do I say this....oh well forget it...very attractive high society type lady......
I do remember that every time I saw Ms. Levine at a show she was impeccably dressed, made-up and coiffed.

It is possible that I assumed Ms. Levine was handling Brando in the ring because she was holding him ringside and trying to keep his attention focused on the bait. However, since I didn't pay attention to what she and/or Brando did after I moved away from them, she may have handed him off to someone else and I didn't notice.

If is also possible that Ms. Levine had engaged a handler but s/he was a no-show and she had to take Brando into the ring herself.

Too much time has gone by since the "ringside chat" for me to be able to state with certainty that I actually saw Ms. Levine handle Brando in the ring. I'd ask Ms. Levine directly, but I feel silly bothering her about this. I'm willing to recast my earlier post to say, she may have been nervous or anxious about Brando's performance in his upcoming class and he picked up on those emotions as she and I chatted ringside and he may have thought I was giving Ms. Levine reason to be nervous or anxious.

I hope that's better-phrased:wavey:
 

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No, you are thinking of a different Flavio. Dr. Flavio Mendes is Ada's significant other and very much alive.
Yah, I was thinking of the handler Flavio Wernick. My bad.
I was looking at Ada Levine trying to figure out how old she was. She appears to have had a lot of work done.
 

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Please be kind folks. Ada suffered the loss of her daughter, I heard (and I don't know if this is true, that it was a self inflicted gunshot wound, so she has been through HEL*. When Catrial was acting up, she was in tears outside the building
 

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Anyone that really knows Ada, knows what a very good hearted person she is. In the relatively short time she has been breeding, she has not hesitated to breed to some of the top dogs in the western hemisphere. She has been very supportive of some of the South American handlers when they first moved to the US from Argentina.
 
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