What are the main differences between a euro and an american bred dobe. Seems at though the euro's are a bit bigger? Americans a bit more refined?
there are already several threads about this topic - if you do a search, you should find them. It is a very touchy subject for a lot of us.What are the main differences between a euro and an american bred dobe. Seems at though the euro's are a bit bigger? Americans a bit more refined?
Don't be sorry! It is a valid question and one that gets asked about a lot. I just want to point out that it is a much discussed topic - especially by newcomers to the breed. You can search and read up on the subject some - if you have more questions, you can ask them with more background.thanks,
I dont want to bring up any touchy subjects!:emo11:
I agree its a shame it can`t be discussed but it is a hot subject. Maybe someday. I have searched on my own and know all I need to know. It just comes down to two different (strong opinons). 12-15 years ago you wouldn`t even know there was such a division. Internet educates us all. Google, search and you will find.Darn it, I would like to see this topic discussed. Could someone tell me where to find these threads? I'm still new to this forum stuff I have no idea where to look. I don't see why it can not be discussed again. And there should be no need for anyone feeling touchy. We all win as we pick the best breed in the world. Does it matter which side of the world?
If it were only that simple! There are a lot of strong opinions and more than a bit of intolerance on both sides of the issue. A lot of generalizations are made, frequently by people who don't have enough knowledge and experience to make them...this almost inevitably leads to insulting comments getting thrown around and people losing their tempers. In the end, these "discussions" wind up widening the chasm, polarizing people more than they might already be.I don't see why it can not be discussed again. And there should be no need for anyone feeling touchy. We all win as we pick the best breed in the world. Does it matter which side of the world?
It can be discussed, of course--but like several other people on this list I find it boring--since it inevitably seems to end up polarizing the groups on either side of the issue. This board has several lengthy discussions and you can search for those and read up on them and you'll see how the discussions get heated even though it shouldn't end up that way.I agree its a shame it can`t be discussed but it is a hot subject. Maybe someday. I have searched on my own and know all I need to know. It just comes down to two different (strong opinons). 12-15 years ago you wouldn`t even know there was such a division. Internet educates us all. Google, search and you will find.
Lisa I hope you can make it to the National which is in Fitchburg this year--I think you'll find it an eye opener.I just thought that it would be similar to American vs Euro. They each have their specialty?
***That's not quite the case--in the case of the Euro Dobes there is quite a division between their "show" and "working" lines--and for the dedicated "working dog" group one of the favored insults is to say that some dog with a full array of Schutzhund titles is "really a show dog". ****
[Seems as though American bred dobes are bred more for a refined show look, and the Euro's I have seen are bred more for size for schutzhund. Not that Euro's and Americans don't cross that line, I'm sure they do.]
***Well, it might have been different when the standards were virtually identical but that's no longer the case--so the jury is out on that as far as I'm concerned. By the way--the most popular Shutzhund/Ring etc dog presently seems to be the Malenois--these are not big dogs, not heavy dogs and certainly generally are about the size of a Dobe bitch. A dog doesn't need to be bred for size for Schutzhund.****
[Either way I think it is a personal preference. I can appreciate the beauty and characteristics of both liniage. In my experience in researching the breed, it seems as though the Euro's are a larger dog.]
***Not necessarily--unfortunately there is a contingent of North American breeders who breed (and brag about it) only for size--and there are a number of lines where the breeders are actually attempting to breed to the standard and get dogs bigger than they should be. The acceptance of the more open shoulder in the FCI standard has allowed for a taller dog but it also has a size disqualification on both sides of their standard. There might be more bone on average in the Euro dogs but I don't see enough of them to know that for sure. If I had to judge by second generation dogs with one Euro parent there isn't anything that proves to me the way to get bigger bone is through adding Euro to a breeding program.****
[ So the backyard breeders my be replicating traits that are not desirable for the look of the dog. It is so important to breed good animals.]
***Ummmmm--well, yes. That's sort of a built in assumption--that you should start with good animals for breeding stock. But the puppy mills/BYB and John Q Public down the street breeding a once and only once litter usually either don't care or wouldn't recognize good breeding stock. And generally none of them have a clue about how to produce any particular trait
But I don't think that has anything much to do with the division (real and imagined) between Euro Dobes and North American Dobes.****
[At any rate, I don't what to insult anyones preference. I have spent the last 6 weeks with my pup and I am head over heels for this breed. I want to go to some shows just to get a feel for it. In fact the annual dobe show is supposed to be in Fitchburg MA this year, right next door to me. I am so thrilled about this! This board has been so informative. You all have so much to offer us newbies. Thanks again for all the replies!
Well..we discuss a LOT of stuff over and over again for the benefit of the newbies..ear posting information, housebreaking and other basic training issues being good examples. But those kinds of subjects don't invariably lead to arguments and bad vibes.I guess I just don't see the need to discuss it as it's been discussed and those discussions are available for anyone to view if they are in fact interested enough to look it up.
I disagree, if this info (and maybe it was ) around in the 6o`s most people would not have that kind of info (internet was not around) unless you were in the dobie circle and showing you would not know this. In the 60`s I was into horses and in the 70`s having babies. I feel like I am just now catching up with things that interest me. Dobies are one..
I have to disagree with you though alwayshadpets about the fact that the division of opinions is new. In my experience it's been going on as long as I've been showing Dobes and that's been since 1960..
------------------------------------------------------------------------Forgive me for adding my comments on what is clearly a well discussed topic, imho, it appears to be one of mere cultural differences? THe US dobes are stunningly elegant, and appear more athletic , the 'Euro' dobes appear more solid in build, sometimes blurring the line between dobes and their stocker rottie cousins, however it is purely one of aesthetics and differences in taste.
Just my opinion, both types have their attractions but in essence the are still dobes.