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Scraglycat
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Dear folks,

I am new to this board. I recently took in a rescue Dobie, I work with several rescue organizations but have no Dobe experience.

He is a 9-10 mo old male, and when I took him to be neutered he developed a large hematoma from the pre surgery injections. They stopped the surgery, and did a muccosal prick test which was normal (clotted in 2 min). The vet reccomended we test him anyway, and his vwd factor was tested at 16%. (Normal is between 70-150?) He is considered affected for sure.

my question is, how do these dogs fare in normal life? We had a home for him, but they are not interested in him now. He has an exceptionally laid back personality, and we thought of keeping him ourselves, but we live on a farm, with metal fences, equipment, and places he could get hurt. He would be indoors most of the time, but I still hate to never let him run and play like my other dog.

How normal of a life can these dogs live? One vet at the clinic even suggested euthanasia as an option. Any experiences or suggestions would be a blessing to us.

Thanks in advance!
 

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Sirai Dobermans
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The test that was used to determine the clotting percentage is called the Elisa and is known for not being reliable.

I would suggest you do a vwd DNA test from vetnostics or vetgen. The results will tell you if the dog is clear, carrier or affected.

I have a male who is vwd affected. He lives a normal life. I do NOT believe euthanasia is an answer. My Koa is an amazing dog despite his affected status.

There are some dogs that are bleeders, but many, many affected dogs clot normally.
 

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The test that was used to determine the clotting percentage is called the Elisa and is known for not being reliable.

I would suggest you do a vwd DNA test from vetnostics or vetgen. The results will tell you if the dog is clear, carrier or affected.

I have a male who is vwd affected. He lives a normal life. I do NOT believe euthanasia is an answer. My Koa is an amazing dog despite his affected status.

There are some dogs that are bleeders, but many, many affected dogs clot normally.
I agree totally and you need a Vwd test. Vwd is not the only disease or reason a dog would bleed. The Elisa can change. With some you can use plasma to get the blood to clot. Some chemicals and poisons can cause an Elisa to come back like that.

Very seldom does a dog die of Vwd and certainly wouldn't put him down.
 

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Don't be discouraged. I was lucky enough to share my life with a beautiful red female Dobie. Her VWd factor was 3%. She went through spay, stomach tack, biopsies, ACL surgery, growth removals, and even hind limb amputation due to Osteosarcoma. Yes, I took precautions such as having cryoprecipitate administered during surgery, but she did just fine. She lived an extremely happy and full life to the ripe old age of 12, even after fighting cancer. This is not a death sentence for a Dobie.
 

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My Judah tested at 9% and lives a perfectly normal life. She plays hard with her sister and has not had any real problems. When I say play, I mean running, jumping, rough housing and so forth. I talked with some experienced doberman people when I found out she was affected. The vet who was not experienced with Vwd had me scared to death. I had one nice lady who has been breeding exceptional dobermans for years say she had a male who tested at 3%. You need to get genetic testing to really determine for sure his status.
Find a vet, possibly someone will recommend one here on DT who is experienced in Vwd and then make an informed decision in regards to when and how to neuter him. Vwd is not the real health hazard for this breed from what I understand they have the mildest form of the disease. Cardiac issues seem to be the most deadly. I hope you give this guy a chance. Do not let someone scare you about this subject who may be uninformed. I am so glad I have my girl, Vwd and all. Please do not euthanize him over this.
Good luck!
 

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Scraglycat
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Discussion Starter #6
rescue dobe

Thanks for your replies...I appreciate them all.
It sounds as if I have a great deal of research to do.

I wonder why people breed carriers of this disorder, knowing it could cause lots of issues.

This pup is the most laid back, sweet, and smart dog I have been around in a long time.
 

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Please dont let this discourage you. The old methods of testing the numbers can be scewed due to many different variables such as stress and medications. Your dog most likely is affected but this is not a death sentance and you will not have to keep it indoors 24/7 to protect it.

We had a female puppy that tested at 9% with the old method of testing. This is before I knew any better that there was another method of testing. This particular puppy went through ear cropping and cutting back the nails very short at ear cropping time with no problems. When she was young this puppy used to get hematomas from simple things which led me to the vet to find out what was going on. Her littermate who happened to be a clear would do the same things such as run under the deck and not have any problems.

One day the affected puppy had a small hematoma on her shoulder, this continued to get worse and within a short amount of time (later that day) developed into a orange sized hematoma, we couldn't stop the bleeding which eventually had no place to go so it followed the path of least resistance and pooled under her stomache to the size of a grapefruit. We of course rushed her to the vet where they did compression bandages and tested her immediately with the old Elisay testing. It came back at 9. The vet at the time told me that she would have to live a padded life with no other dogs around and would have to be watched all the time so not to injur or slightly bump herself basically a death sentence. They even told me that her coming into heat might cause bleeding that wouldn't stop and a spay surgery could be worse. I opted to spay her which the surgery turned out fine no bleeding problems at all. This puppy was placed into a home that knew full well all that was wrong with her and they chose to adopt her. It was about a year later that this same bitch ran into the wall and hit her head something a normal dog could have shaken off but not this affected bitch. She experienced bleeding behind the eye which of course took longer to stop and she ended up loosing site in that eye.

I have stayed in contact with the owners and now at age 11 she had one more mishap with bleeding from running outside and impaling herself on a stick. Turned out fine in the long run minus a hefty vet bill. My experience with Vwd from following her has been she had been able to go through major surgeries just fine and you never know when it (vWD) might raise it's ugly head. It seems to come and go and things that you think might have been a problem aren't and things that you think would never be a problem one day may be and the next day not.

Your dog may most likely live a perfectly normal life with no other problems or it may have a few things pop up here and there. Chances are he will live a long normal healthy life with very little affect from it.

I on the other hand learned a valuable lesson through this and would rather not reproduce affected puppies if at all possible even though 98% of those that I know that are affected have no problems. It is my experience that you just never know WHEN it may be a problem. I'm surprised that more breeders dont take this same stand but again most of the affected's NEVER have problems!

The same litter we had another girl that was affected and went through tplo surgery on both knees, spay surgery and normal life without ever having any bleeding issues. The thing I noticed though between these 2 girls was the one that had more problems would get small hematomas after vaccinations and things such as bumping into things but this didn't continue on throughout her life either. Just something that set them apart when they were younger. It looked like she had big mosquito bites.
 

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Thanks for your replies...I appreciate them all.
It sounds as if I have a great deal of research to do.

I wonder why people breed carriers of this disorder, knowing it could cause lots of issues.

This pup is the most laid back, sweet, and smart dog I have been around in a long time.
Carrrier to a clear produces dogs that are not bleeders and not affected by Vwd. While it is a concern, breeders have much more lethal diseases and some of those that are dyin of cardio are clear dogs. It is the whole picture and Vwd is just one piece of it. Breeding only clear dogs would reduce the gene pool and may cause more problems. Most test and make the best decisions they can. Affected dogs do not usually die or bleed because of the type of Vwd. The test you did does not tell you if the dog has Vwd. Clotting problems can be caused by many things, Vwd is just one.
 

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I would also show the vet your research so maybe he/she won't waste another Doberman owner's money on the ELISA test. It's not accurate with Dobermans. The gene test should be done.
 
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Mighty One
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As the others have noted the ELISA test is inaccurate in diagnosing the genetic vWd status. I suggest you get a test kit from Vetnositic or Vetgen and find out for the vWd genetic status yourself. I used Vetnostic to test my new puppy, Victor, as they are a bit cheaper and has an excellent turnaround time (within a week).

Here are the links to their websites:
VetNostic Laboratories - Veterinary Genetic Testing - von Willebrand ? vWD Testing for Dogs
VetGen: Veterinary Genetic Services - Canine - List of Services - Von Willebrand's Disease (vWD) - vWD Type I

Dobermans with vWd can and do live quite normal lives. I had a doberman cross, Magnum, who lived to 13.5 years of age. So try not to worry too much.

Take care, Tracy, Mariah, and Victor
 
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