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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On monday Molly and Tasia got into a very serious fight.

they were playing nicely and hubby stepped out of room for a moment and all hell broke loose. he dove in and at 6'4' 200 lbs had trouble separating them. Tasia had Molly by the head and wouldn't let go. He finally got them apart and Molly was badly hurt.

the wound in her head was a puncture and was not stitched. However, it was close to two inches deep. Tasia's canine enterened in above molly's right eye and luckily went down the side of her eyesocket. while there is no optical damage from the wound, our vet is very concerned about infection and the damage it coul do to her eye and optic nerve which is very close to the wounded area. that whole side of her head is fairly swollen, and in order to flush and probe her wound they had to shave that part of her head. it is the side with the damaged ear so she looks like frankenstein's dobe.

After lengthy discussion with our kids, who are very attached to Tasia, and several folks in our rescue organization who know both Molly and Tasia, we all came to the conclusion that this was not going to work, so yesterday we had to put Tasia back into the foster system.

Molly and tasia had a few skirmishes that were escalating. Jason said that Tasia would not let go of Molly and when he finally did get them separated, she kept trying to go after her again and again - as tho she wanted to finish her off.

needless to say, there have been many, many tears shed in the Campbell clan over the last couple days.....

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Im so sorry to hear this Carrie :( I'm sure that they will find Tasia a great home. Its really to bad that it didnt work out, but I am sure that you made the right decision, things would have only gotten worse.

Give Molly a big kiss on the head from us, and I hope that she gets better soon :( Poor Girl.
 

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Sorry to heart the bad news. It seems most of the time the right things to do are the hardest. Hope there is no permanent damage and Molly recovers quickly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks for the kind words and good wishes. I hate it when doing the right thing hurts so much. Tasia is a great dog and so is Molly - separately.

I think Molly is going to be OK. she is a little more subdued than normal, and more clingy, kind of like a little kid who doesn't feel well - if being more clingy is possible for a dobe.

the thing that is killing me most, is that there aren't any fosters available for Tasia right now. we had to bring her to a vet kennel, not a shelter. the vet and the kennel is great, they take a lot of our doberkids waiting for fosters and do all our spays & neuters. it really is a great place, I would take our dogs if they weren't so far away.

but no matter how I slice it or rationalize it, it still sucks. he house seems so empty with only two dogs.
 

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*hugs*
I'm sorry you had to make that decision. Please give everyone there hugs from NJ - being responsible sucks sometimes
 

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awww Im so sorry....thats shocking so spur of the moment. very heartbreaking....I wonder what triggered it...I hope Molly and tasia are both okay and I hope tasia finds a great home. Who knows...maybe you and your kids can still visit her if she finds a home not too far away...keep us updated like when tasia finds a home
 

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I'm sorry it didn't work out. It sounds like you are doing the right thing though. Hopefully Tasia will get a foster or permanent home soon.
 

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Aww I am sorry also that it didn't work out, I am sure it was very hard to have to make this decision when they are both great dogs, just not together. Hopefully Tasia will find a great home and Molly will get better and things will get back to normal.
 

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Bad news indeed,but in light of what happened, the right decision to make IMHO,hope Molly gets well soon.
 

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I hope that Molly heals up quickly. Poor girl. I am sorry that you had to seperate them. Sometimes the best decisions are the heartbreakers. Hopefully she will get a home soon.
 

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you made the right decision as hard as it was. Same thing happened to our piano teacher. She had boxers. Kept one of the female pups and when the pup got older she went at it with the mother. It never worked for her either.
 

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I'm sorry to hear things didn't work out. I can't imagine how scary it must have been for all involved. I hope Molly makes a speedy recovery.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
mariposa692001 said:
aaw I am so sorry....and poor poor Molly....I wonder why Tasia disliked her so much...
Mariposa, it really wasn't a question of dislike - when they were out side you should have seen the way they played together.

But it was a question of female dominance. Molly is about 1 1/2 years and Apollo is pretty submissive to her, so she was used to being the dominant female. Then Tasia at about 3years old came into to the house and after a few weeks, decided that SHE was going to be the dominant female.

the part that scared me the most is how hubby described the fight. Even after he separated them, Tasia didn't thing she had finished. I am sure that if he weren't home, we would have come home to a dead dog. Tasia weighs about 15 lbs more than Molly, so I am sure that Molly would have been the loser.

Molly's head looks better still today, the swelling is going down, thank God, and I take her to the vet tonight. I will post an update. She is still pretty clingy tho

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Hope Molly feels better soon.

Your husband is lucky that he didn't accidently get bit in the fray. The owner of a Bermese Mt dog had to break up a fight between his dog and a boxer - the Mt dog had been bullied by a boxer when he was a pup and instinctively didn't like the breed. Attack was unprovoked. Owner got involved and his dog gave him two puncture wounds in the hand at the wrist.

Sad situation for all concerned.

Does anyone have any advice on how to keep your dog from following dominant tendencies. Java is great at the DP with most dogs. She runs in the woods on weekends with a male lab mix slightly larger than she is - bites his ears and they take off like racehorses. She loves to run and wrestle with other dogs, doesn't escalate to a full fight - often when they break to catch their breath, she'll lick the other dog's ear or nose. BUT, get a submissive doodle in the mix (sorry don't like to stereotype but seems to be a persistent flaw in the ones I've met), have it immediately roll over and show its belly and she is relentless. Swoops in to bite its ears, back of neck to get it to get up, act like a dog and run. When it doesn't Java becomes increasingly frustrated and the hackles rise on her shoulders. I keep her harness on her when I know there will be a lot of dogs around (easier to grab than a collar), and keep an eye on her to make sure that things don't escalate, will intervene well before things escalate, pull her aside, tell her to 'leave it' and get her to sit for a time out.

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Java has never started a fight at the DP, and will look for and come to me when dogs start to mix it up. This doesn't mean that she hasn't stood her ground if another dog has decided to come after her. I've seen her shoulder check an advancing dog three or four times before she has had enough and will snap at them. This is often enough for them to back off and leave her alone. Again, I keep my eye on her and intervene before it gets close to a dangerous stage. I've also become more vocal about suggesting that owners of aggressive dogs keep a better eye on their animals. I hate to turn around and leave the park when I see some of these dogs and their owners present, but it's my job to keep Java safe, and if another dog really came after her I'm not sure she would come to me when called.
 

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BUT, get a submissive doodle in the mix (sorry don't like to stereotype but seems to be a persistent flaw in the ones I've met), have it immediately roll over and show its belly and she is relentless. Swoops in to bite its ears, back of neck to get it to get up, act like a dog and run.
thats exactly how duchess is...since coco our lab mix is pretty fearful...he will wrestle with her....but when they sprint around the yard and duchess cant catch him...or if she just gets in this mood she will run full speed at him...and he will lay on the ground belly up...while duchess does what you describe...coco is learning to be braver...but only cause he snaps back...but he does it out of being afraid and being overwhelmed...not for play. sometimes I think duchess gets frustrated that 1. he is faster than her and he rarely is the one chasing her and 2. duchess is frustrated that he doesnt know how to play still.
i dont know...sorry for the hijack of the thread :)
 

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JavasMom said:
Does anyone have any advice on how to keep your dog from following dominant tendencies.
I don't personally think that there is away of keeping dominance out of a dog. Others might see it differently. It is up to the owner to control this. You have to know how to watch your dog and read their actions. Know what they are going to do and how they are going to react. Take them away from situations that are going to escalate into issues. That is part of being a responsible owner. I think you are taking the correct steps with Java.

Asher had a problem with Newfies. He was attacked by two of them on two seperate occasions. Needless to say, he doesn't like big black newfies. Hair raising on the back and hackles up. He had to overcome this since one of his classes, there happened to be a beautiful big black newfie that joined. Oh the luck of us. He was so happy to see this dog and the first few classes all he did was stare at this dog and wait for him to jump at him and attack. I kept them seperated until he was comfortable with the fact that this dog was not going to attack him and they could get in a closer proximity. By no means did they ever play off leash. I still don't trust him with Newfies. He has come a ways and will tolerate being around them. I don't recommend that conditioning for everyone by any means. I know my dog and how to control him. He trusts me and we work well. I know when he has had enough and when to leave a situation. He took his CGC test side-by-side with that Newfie and passed proudly. That Newfie unfortunately did not pass.

Now throw in a submissive type in the bunch with a puppy like yours, and you end up with a puppy that just wants to play, play, play. And guess what, I can beat up on you! Doodle (though not a "doodle" mix) was a very submissive dog when he came home with me. It took him along time to break out of his shell. Asher has helped him with that. When it got too rough, he would freeze and go submissive. Rough to him at that time was anything from you knocked me over or hit me too hard. That was a full invitation to get on top of me and try to take advantage of the situation. They just wanted to play and get him to chase them, so they would nip and pull. Try anything to get his attention. It is your job to tell them that enough is enough and leave it be. After time, he slowly came out and picked up his confidence to play with them and holds his own. He can push them aside like no other. Not every submissive dog is going to do that. I worked with him to gain that confidence.

I suppose after this novel, these are two examples of the spectrum how you need to know how to read and watch your dog. JMHO.
 

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Codysmom said:
Mariposa, it really wasn't a question of dislike - when they were out side you should have seen the way they played together.

But it was a question of female dominance. Molly is about 1 1/2 years and Apollo is pretty submissive to her, so she was used to being the dominant female. Then Tasia at about 3years old came into to the house and after a few weeks, decided that SHE was going to be the dominant female.
This is exactly how I read the situation. Many rescue organizations have a policy of not placing two female dogs in one household. Here's an article that some of them reference: http://www.caberfeidh.com/Fight.htm. It's not like male posturing; it's a fight to the death.
 

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Ahh, so sorry CM, I'm glad your DH was home to break things up. You are still an angel for opening your home to all these rescue kids! Many hugs to you to ease your pain, and to Mollie to heal up!
 
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