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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have been thinking for a few month about starting Max on a raw diet. Just Max, as our GSD bitch Kia isn't keen on raw. Anyway due to our Max and his recent problems (catch up here http://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-corner/64861-max-has-had-vet-visit.html) we are going to start feeding him raw as we feel that kibble is not doing his digestive system any good.

It isn't for a pup to be badly constipated. There is only the food he is consuming to blame. Anyway with his bloods and everything coming back ok, and with him refusing to eat kibble we have given him a 1lb of raw chicken mince. It took him 2 servings to eat but he has eaten it. More than we could get down him with kibble. I think it helped that it was sort of pastey. We are grateful for anything we can get down into his tummy right now. We have also made him some beef broth. To drink alongside his water to try get some nutrients in him.

Anyway with regards to raw feeding. He will hopefully be on a full raw diet, no kibble. I do have some questions regarding this, despite reading several previous threads and a fantastic one that explaind raw feeding simply by doberkim. Which explained a lot.

My questions are as follows;

-I am aware that the dogs needs 3-4% of their own body weight. (going between the numbers for increase or decrease in weight) Anyway my question, is the 3-4lb for a full days food or each meal in the day? If the latter how many meals per day.

-We know to start off with a simple and readily available meat, we have chosen chicken. We read that others are richer, and things like tripe, organs and fish should be left until they are accustomed due to their richness. So we are thinking of keeping him on chicken for 2-3 weeks and on the 3rd week adding small pieces of other meet. Question is what pieces of chicken would be better to give him to avoid choking? Also if i were to get a little whole chicken that was 2-3lb would i be ok to offer this to him whole as one meal, and would you remove or give the gibblets?

-We know not to cook any of the meats with bones due to the brittleness of the bones changing once cooked, and the enzymes cooking kills. This is fine i have nothing against him chewing bones. Question is i have chicken necks to offer him with his meals. I know he needs something bigger, but what can i offer as a reward bone. He has had the boiled typical pet shop type bones. Are these ok or should we give him something better for him like a bone from the butchers with little meat on it?

-When would be the best time to start offering liver/heart to him, so that they don't mess with his stomach too much?

-Vegetables? I know there is much controversy between raw feeders about this. I was thinking about using cooked vegetables 3/4 times per week, blended into some minced chicken. Don't they have any beneficial vitamins or anything?

-How much meaty bone do you feed? What would be a typical meal that included meat, bones and vegetables if you use them?

-As a beginner with raw are there any supplements you would suggest? We do put 1/2 tbsp of cod liver oil in his meal a couple times a month already.

Sorry for the extra long thread. Just wanna make sure i know if raw is right for us. Thank you in advance.

Im hoping a raw diet will stop my little man having any such digestive problems in the future. It will put me at ease knowing exactly what is going into his tummy.

thanks.
 

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I will just tell you how and what I feed my 2 year old boy Monty. I've been raw feeding for 5 years (started with my now deceased boy Petey) and I'm sure you read all my raw feeding posts about how I switched in Kim's original thread here on DT.

I got Monty from his breeder at 12 weeks old and I completely switched him off of kibble to raw by 14 weeks old. I fed chicken legs to start for about 2 weeks. I used to cut my organ meat in small chunks and freeze on a cookie sheet and only feed a small piece each day after the two weeks. Monty has had no issues with his bowels, some days his poop is hard other days softer according to what he is eating. He only poops 1X each day. Monty is also a slow careful eater. He loves his bone meals and takes his time.

I feed 2-3% of body weight. 80/10/10 Meat/Bone/Organ. Monty is 78#

Breakfast: 1# of a mix: Meat chunks/ground~Organ~Heart Meat

Dinner: 1# of meat on the bone and extra chunks of meat, pork, venison, beef, lamb ribs, chicken or turkey. I rotate these meals so he is eating a different meat each day.

I also feed Sardines, Eggs and Tripe. Monty does not like any veggies or fruits, so we don't bother with them.

As for supplements he get a fish oil capsule 2X per day.

Good luck, it's a fun way to feed, I'm always on the look out for something new to feed. I have an entire freezer just for Monty. It's filled to the brim. Today is breakfast make up day....I have 30 pounds of meat and organs defrosting so I can bag it all up.
 

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Puppies pushover
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for your pst. I am almost 98% sure i'm gonna start raw. Gonna start searching round some suppliers, Somewhere i can buy bulk. Then going to get a seperate freezer for pet stuff. We have prawns, mice, crab sticks, and other things for the pets already. Yesterday he had 1lb chicken meat and a couple chicken necks. He seemed to enjoy these. He isn't eating properly just yet though so i know he will gulp it down when he's all good.

I just think this diet will be better for him. :)
 
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I also feed 2-3% body weight. If they need more or less, I adjust from there, but 2 to 3 percent is a good starting point. The percentage is for the whole day, not per meal. So, for example, Dance (my Toller) eats roughly one pound of raw per day. I split it into two meals by feeding her a half pound in the morning and a half pound at night.

As far as what pieces of chicken are better to give him, I just base it on the size of the piece compared to the size of the dog. And what kind of eater they are, too. So I wouldn't want to give a large dog something too small such as a chicken wing, and I'd be hesitant on even the necks (I prefer turkey necks for large dogs) or small legs or thighs. Just use your judgement on whether you think something is large enough not to be a choking hazard. Chicken quarters seem to be common. If you can find a small enough chicken and would like to give him that as a whole meal, you should be able to do that too. I know lots of people that do. And I would leave the giblets in (make sure they're not bagged though -- I know some are).

As far as recreational bones, I prefer to feed raw bones as opposed to anything cooked or cured. But be aware that weight bearing bones (such as marrow bones/leg bones of large animals) have a greater potential of fracturing or breaking teeth than other bones. I give mine bison or beef rib bones (but watch as apparently some dogs can cause them to splinter - mine don't) but I also do sometimes give them knuckles, shanks and occassionally marrow bones as well.

I introduce organ meat two to three weeks into raw feeding. Some dogs can handle it sooner, but it is very rich, so has a tendency to cause loose stool if introduced too soon. And when you do give organ, make sure not to give too much as, again, you'll likely end up with a dog with loose stool. Also keep in mind that liver and kidney are a better choice for organ meats, as heart is more of a muscle meat.

I personally don't believe in feeding veggies to a dog. Sometimes I'll feed them, but really I don't believe they do a whole lot if anything. I try to follow a 70/20/10 (meat, bone and organ) diet, but not every meal is exactly like that. There are some days that I don't feed organ at all, some days are more meaty than boney, etc. Balance over time is key.

As far as supplements, unless the dog is having a problem, all I tend to supplement with is fish oil. I also just bought some coconut oil the other day to try. Some Toller people have been seeing really nice coat results with coconut oil and fish oil vs. just fish oil, so I wanted to give it a try and see what happens.

I hope that helps some! I'm only feeding Dance raw at the moment and not the Dobermans, but the Dobes would follow the same meal plans as Dance, just in bigger servings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you far that post tollers-n-dobes :) Answered my main question about the amount per meal and the organ meat. It got me curious, do you feed the muscle meat often? such as the heart you suggested or is this just an occasional addition to their diet? How many hearts say per month would you roughly provide?

Thank you in advance.
 

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hi bonnie. there's a place at askern where you would be able to get fresh mince and stuff from. i'll dig out the details for you and pm you tomorrow with them. be cheaper than going butchers :)
 

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Thank you far that post tollers-n-dobes :) Answered my main question about the amount per meal and the organ meat. It got me curious, do you feed the muscle meat often? such as the heart you suggested or is this just an occasional addition to their diet? How many hearts say per month would you roughly provide?

Thank you in advance.
I do feed it pretty often. At least a couple times a week I think. Usually in the meals that I don't include organ in. I also feed a fair amount of pre made raw (it's easy and I get it at a good price), which I tend to add either organ or muscle meat to as I find sometimes some brands of pre made raw can be a little too bone heavy for Dance. I'm not really sure how many I go through per month, though. It also depends on what kind of heart I use. Turkey hearts are a lot smaller than say, beef or bison hearts (which I cut into smaller portions).
 

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-We know not to cook any of the meats with bones due to the brittleness of the bones changing once cooked, and the enzymes cooking kills. This is fine i have nothing against him chewing bones. Question is i have chicken necks to offer him with his meals. I know he needs something bigger, but what can i offer as a reward bone. He has had the boiled typical pet shop type bones. Are these ok or should we give him something better for him like a bone from the butchers with little meat on it?

-As a beginner with raw are there any supplements you would suggest? We do put 1/2 tbsp of cod liver oil in his meal a couple times a month already.
You've gotten some great ideas already, but I wanted to add my .02 cents. People with medium to large breeds usually stay away from chicken necks. They are the perfect size to get lodged in the throat, and they have very little meat and way too much bone. Remember that in the big picture, you should be feeding LOTS of meat, a little organ, and a little bone. With that being said, I do know people who feed chicken necks without incident. If your dog is a very careful eater, those will probably be fine.

Also, everything I have ever read has said to stay away from cod liver oil. It doesn't have nearly the amount of Omega 3's as regular fish body oil, and has too much vitamin A and D (I believe those are the ones) for a dog. Stick with regular Fish body oil capsules.

Good luck! I hope Max enjoys his yummy raw food!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Is it cheap jayne? Lol. What do you feed Opie? All the raw food stuffs is baffling me...

Worked it out with on place it would cost roughly £45 a month to feed just max. at about 80p per lb of meat, roughly. He needs to be on about 2lb per dayso 1 and half blocks of the meat we've seen, some chicken carcass, which is 57p per kg, and some liver which is 52p per lb... i would half the liver or would you chop it into four? to make a quarter pound, then get the last quarter pound, give or take a little of chicken carcass?

Sorry if my question sounds dumb. There would obviously be variety i am just trying to work out rough guidelines on what the monthly spend would be. I like to know where i am with things... So i can use them in my case when speaking with other half :)

Thanks for the advice about chicken necks. He is supervised with these and has his dopey mummy (aka me) breaking them up cause he thinks they are not worth the effort lol. He will go onto something bigger. Thank you for advising about the cod liver oil. I wasn;t aware of this. We will stop giving it immediately and source some fish oils.

Thanks
 
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I also feed chicken necks with out incident. Monty is a careful chewer, Petey was a gulper, both loved the necks! Turkey necks are great if you can get them. I don't find it too cheap here in NY. I pay from 59 cents a pound to 1.99 per pound. I think it costs me about $3-4 a day to feed Monty
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Working out from the above it would roughly be £1.50-£2 per day. Thats about £60 per month.... Damn raw is expensive... lol. Looking forward to the details from Jayne (tattoogirl) though. see if the place she mentions can make this any less. hubby isnt convinced regarding the price. What kibbles are closest to raw? Just so i can look in comparison.
thanks
 

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Working out from the above it would roughly be £1.50-£2 per day. Thats about £60 per month.... Damn raw is expensive... lol. Looking forward to the details from Jayne (tattoogirl) though. see if the place she mentions can make this any less. hubby isnt convinced regarding the price. What kibbles are closest to raw? Just so i can look in comparison.
thanks
I do believe that is I purchased the highest quality kibble that the cost wouldn't be much different. I bagged up 30# of meat tonight, all in 1# baggies...what a bloody mess, LOL... but so happy it's done and I have 30 days of breakfasts put away. Monty loves his meals, and I enjoy watching him eat with such gusto that I can't see ever feeding kibble again. If he had to go off of raw, I'd home cook his food. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I was thinking that. Through my research i have seen mixers that are made for use with raw food, what are peoples opinions and experiences with these. I also like to see my dogs enjoy a good meal too. Nothing like seeing them fill there bellies with goodness :)
 

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Is it cheap jayne? Lol. What do you feed Opie? All the raw food stuffs is baffling me...

Worked it out with on place it would cost roughly £45 a month to feed just max. at about 80p per lb of meat, roughly. He needs to be on about 2lb per dayso 1 and half blocks of the meat we've seen, some chicken carcass, which is 57p per kg, and some liver which is 52p per lb... i would half the liver or would you chop it into four? to make a quarter pound, then get the last quarter pound, give or take a little of chicken carcass?
Sorry if my question sounds dumb. There would obviously be variety i am just trying to work out rough guidelines on what the monthly spend would be. I like to know where i am with things... So i can use them in my case when speaking with other half :)

Thanks for the advice about chicken necks. He is supervised with these and has his dopey mummy (aka me) breaking them up cause he thinks they are not worth the effort lol. He will go onto something bigger. Thank you for advising about the cod liver oil. I wasn;t aware of this. We will stop giving it immediately and source some fish oils.

Thanks
Are you talking about feeding this much organ at one time? I would feed a very tiny amount to start. Organs can cause diarreha or if you want to know explosive diarreha! Some people dont care for this yahoo group but it can be informational. Yahoo Groups Rawfeeding rawfeeding : Raw Feeding for dogs and cats!

I feed along the lines as the 2 first posts. 2-3% of adult body weight. 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organ(5% liver & 5% other organ). I supplement with fish oil. I also do not feed veggies unless using maybe carrots, bananas or apples as treats. When I first started Kyrah & Cujo were gulpers so small things such as ck necks were not advisable. I also fed most of their food partially frozen in the begining. Tippy was not much of a gulper but as we have moved along she has become a faster eater than before.

I am not sure how it is in your country. Here I have a chest freezer and purchase my meat by the case from a meat distributor. Cost much less.

If he is already having stomach issues go slow. When I first started I went too fast and started giving to many different type meats and organs in the begining. I had to start over and stick with chicken for a few weeks then slowly start adding small amounts of a different meat. The organs I can still accidentally give Kyrah too much. She seems to get diarreha from it more than the other two.

Good Luck!
 

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Our breeder started Lucy off on a raw diet and we have continued that trend and she is almost 10 months. We usually feed her 4 chicken backs a day and mix in some salmon every once in a while. I do find it amusing the reaction that people give when we tell them we feed her raw meat lol.
 

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Our breeder started Lucy off on a raw diet and we have continued that trend and she is almost 10 months. We usually feed her 4 chicken backs a day and mix in some salmon every once in a while. I do find it amusing the reaction that people give when we tell them we feed her raw meat lol.
I hope you are feeding more then just chicken backs....that's not a balanced raw diet. It's very bone heavy and you need to rotate in other meats to be sure she is getting all the nutrients that different meats offer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Oh i no not to give too much organ i am just trying to work out the cost of the diet once he is fully accustomed to it. :)

I am gonna also ask our vet about raw feeding today. See hs views :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thank you for that website. I am going to give it a good thorough read
 
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