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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,
I recently noticed that my little girl is dripping urine when she sleeps. she will be 6 months old in 2 weeks. Could this be due to her immature anatomy? or is incontinence in a pup this young, possibly something more serious?

My other concern is that she has 2 retained canines and the vet says we have a few more weeks until they need to come out. I had planned to wait until she was older to spay her. We already have one bitch who became incontinent after her spay and I really don't want another.

Does anyone have any experience with this? could she grow out of it? could spaying her make it worse? are there any other tests that could be run besides checking for a UTI? (she doesn't have a UTI)

Just an FYI, I have asked my vet these questions and he hasnt really answered them, he is just all about getting that uterus out ASAP. He claims that there are no ill effects from juvenile spays but I have read so much to the contrary.
 

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When you are saying that your pup does not have a UTI, does this mean that a culture and sensitivity test has been run on a sterile urine sample? If not: upon what are you basing your statement?

This puppy belongs to you, and not your vet. By extension, her uterus belongs to you, as well. It can come out when you decide it should, or it can stay there forever if you decide. Your vet is hired help. Have you read the article "A Healtheir Respect for Ovaries"?

A big, fat, fresh, tasty raw beef knuckle bone will probably be helpful to removing those baby teeth.

Were I you, I would be most concerned to diagnose what is going on with your pup, and let the other stuff wait. If your vet does not share your concerns (or you have concerns about your vet), you might consider finding someone new.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
The vet looked at her urine and said it was fine. I am guessing they just did a dipstick and spectrometer, though, as there certainly wasn't time for a culture.
The vet also felt it was unlikely since she has been on antibiotics every couple of weeks, it seems. (3 surgeries and 2 infections in the last 3 months)

think it would be wise to request a culture? My vet has NEVER offered this, but I know they do it at the human doctor.

For the teeth, I have been giving her knuckle bones almost daily, playing LOTS of tug, and trying to wiggle them with my fingers a few times a day. they are solid!

And my vet is a good friend we just have VERY different philosophies. On many issues he balances me and gives me a great person to argue the other side, but in other areas we just butt heads and dont agree. I have another vet that I love to death, but they are 3 hours away, so it is harder to use them (I only do for surgeries and second opinions), Luckily, I will be moving back to their neck of the woods in January.

thanks
 

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The vet looked at her urine and said it was fine. I am guessing they just did a dipstick and spectrometer, though, as there certainly wasn't time for a culture.
The vet also felt it was unlikely since she has been on antibiotics every couple of weeks, it seems. (3 surgeries and 2 infections in the last 3 months)

think it would be wise to request a culture? My vet has NEVER offered this, but I know they do it at the human doctor.

thanks
Yeah, I would request this.

I am going to play the "Lazy Card" 'cause I don't have time to go hunt through your previous posts... for what has she had surgery, what infections has she had, which antibiotics has she been on and for how long?
 

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Just saw your edit...

If you and your vet are friends and have discussed this, perhaps you should not only read GPMCF: Healthier Respect for Ovaries, but print it out and give it to him and ask if the two of you could maybe talk some more.

What is his rationale for wanting to yank reproductive organs out of puppygirls? Does he feel there are health advantages? Does he feel it is socially responsible? I assume that, since he is your friend, it is not that he has a boat payment due LOL!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Oh sorry, I am playing the lazy card too...Lets see If I remember everything.
First, when her ears first opened she had an ear infection that caused her to be deaf in that ear. Then she had her first ear crop at 7 weeks old. This was with the breeder, so not sure which antibiotics they used.
Then she had Diarrhea and was on albon and Flagyl for 10 days after we brought her home.
At 12 weeks she had a second ear crop to correct the mess that the first vet made, of her ears. She was on Clavomox for 2 weeks after that.
At about 16 weeks she broke off her bottom canine teeth which caused an abscess and bone infection in her jaw which required surgery to remove the teeth and some of the infection. She was on cephalexin for the week before her surgery and a second, stronger, broad spectrum antibiotic (cant remember which one it is and cant seem to find the invoice) for another 14 days after that.
Then she had another week of flagyl, for diarrhea, 2 weeks ago.(23 weeks old)

needless to say I have been giving her yogurt and probiotics every time I turn around to try and help her poor little gut flora.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Just saw your edit...

If you and your vet are friends and have discussed this, perhaps you should not only read GPMCF: Healthier Respect for Ovaries, but print it out and give it to him and ask if the two of you could maybe talk some more.

What is his rationale for wanting to yank reproductive organs out of puppygirls? Does he feel there are health advantages? Does he feel it is socially responsible? I assume that, since he is your friend, it is not that he has a boat payment due LOL!
Nope, no boat payment.. lol I happen to know he is still working on those darn student loans and keeps trying to convince me that I do not want to be a vet because I will be broke for the rest of my life.
I will certainly read that and show it to him. His arguments are these:
1. He claims that altered dogs are more active and playful then intact dogs and is not convinced that the potential of bone and ligament issues are not a result of having more fun with their lives then hormone issues.
2. He feels mammary tumors are far worse then ACL tears. He says, if you have ever tried to close the skin on a dog whom you have just removed a mammary tumor, then you would too.
3. We have a responsibility to set an example to others. Even though he knows I am responsible and I am not going to let her get knocked up, he still feels it is important to do it.
4. The clinic that he works at charges incrementally more money the larger the dog is, and he wants to save me money.

He is more of the tried and true kind of guy. it takes a lot to persuade him away from what he has been taught. You should hear the battles we get into over Science Diet.
 

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The vet looked at her urine and said it was fine. I am guessing they just did a dipstick and spectrometer, though, as there certainly wasn't time for a culture.
The vet also felt it was unlikely since she has been on antibiotics every couple of weeks, it seems. (3 surgeries and 2 infections in the last 3 months)

think it would be wise to request a culture? My vet has NEVER offered this, but I know they do it at the human doctor.
Heavy antibiotics may disrupt the balance in your girl's natural flora, which could increase her chance of developing a UTI. If the vet has not actually ruled out a UTI, I think you should have them do that.

Hope your girl feels better soon. Three surgeries and 2 infections in the last 3 months? :( Since she's not even 6 months old yet, I'd wait to spay her based on that alone; unless it's a medical necessity or something. That seems like a lot of anaesthesia (and antibiotics) for such a young girl.
 

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Nope, no boat payment.. lol I happen to know he is still working on those darn student loans and keeps trying to convince me that I do not want to be a vet because I will be broke for the rest of my life.
I will certainly read that and show it to him. His arguments are these:
1. He claims that altered dogs are more active and playful then intact dogs and is not convinced that the potential of bone and ligament issues are not a result of having more fun with their lives then hormone issues.
2. He feels mammary tumors are far worse then ACL tears. He says, if you have ever tried to close the skin on a dog whom you have just removed a mammary tumor, then you would too.
3. We have a responsibility to set an example to others. Even though he knows I am responsible and I am not going to let her get knocked up, he still feels it is important to do it.
4. The clinic that he works at charges incrementally more money the larger the dog is, and he wants to save me money.

He is more of the tried and true kind of guy. it takes a lot to persuade him away from what he has been taught. You should hear the battles we get into over Science Diet.
Well, let's see...

1. I suppose one could support that argument with his logic. By extension, he is saying that speutered animals fail to mature and I am not sure that that is necessarily a good thing. An awful lot of working dogs who I would guess stress their bodies more than playing dogs are left intact. It would be interesting to know if there were statistics on CCL ruptures among these dogs.

2. He's right... the one is worse than the other. One would have to compare the statistical risk of mammary tumors to the statistical risk of ACL ruptures/tears. I don't know that this information has been gathered.

3. It is my belief that one's primary responsibility is to make the best medical decisions one can for one's animals. I will not sacrafice my animals' welfare to promote a social agenda. The other side of his coin is that maybe it might be a good thing to provide an example of responsible ownership and management of an intact animal.

4. That's friendly, I guess. Not spaying at all is cheaper still LOL!

There is only reason to have the first battle over Science Diet... after that, a smart person will just avoid the issue. It is like politics and religion... everybody is right, and nobody is going to change anybody else's mind LOL! My vet, whom I adore, sells Hill's Prescription Diets... one of the last true icons in Dobermans swore until the day she died that Pedigree was about the best kibble out there... sometimes, it pays to just keep yer yap shut!
 

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Your vet has an obligation to advocate for his patient.Not 'dogs' in general.And most certainly not at the expense of your dog.I think he has overstepped some boundaries here.Both professionally and personally.

Go to the better vet who is located 3 hours away.Your dog needs healthcare,not a lobbyist.Incontinence,in such a young dog ,is very serious.Don't let him anywhere near her.

Basic diagnostic testing is not rocket science.Incontinent dog....dipstick...found nothing and is doing nothing.What's up Doc?Time for a turn at Albuquerque.

May I put this into perspective for you?I have a 7 year old dog going in for a routine dental,we have done full blood, urine and fecal.Specifically looking for anything that could compromise him while under.That's what I demand for a healthy dog.Yours is young and incontinent.Imagine where your vet and myself wouldn't see eye to eye.

The man is your friend and I understand that.Your dog is your best friend.She deserves her best friend to do much better by her.She can't make the choices herself.Friend in need is a friend in deed. Do right by her because I think your friend,the vet,isn't and won't.

If this is how he does basic diagnostics,I doubt very much,anyone with half a brain is going to let him do ortho and plastic surgeries.Performing surgeries based on immature growth because of a lower price for weight dosed drugs is outrageous to me.Who says such a thing?It's pure evil to me.Outright unacceptable.

I'm very sorry.My post seems like a personal attack against you.Please understand that it isn't.We have been using the same vet for over 20 years now.I would consider him tried and true,heck....I'm on his Christmas list.That would be of no consequence to me if I believed he was blowing smoke up my rear.

Incontinence in dogs is a dog thing.For want of anything better to say of it.It's not a good thing under any circumstance.It is also well documented by the veterinary community.No reason not to be able to figure out why with testing.She's had many surgeries....has she been catheterized incorrectly?I can't help thinking he wants to open her up to fix more than just her.

I'm mean suspicious about vets.I expect more from them than I would my own doctors.

Do not allow extractions without x-rays.How do you know they should be pulled?Oral care does involve some routine practices.Your vet should be practicing them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sirmann,
Thank you for your post. As I said, this vet is my friend, and because of that he knows that my husband has been unemployed and I am a full time Graduate student. He also knows that I will do anything for my dogs and so he does try and help with the money issue. That said, I do have another vet that my kids go to for stuff that isnt routine.
I have tried so many vets in my area, and I just dont trust them or get a good feeling from them. Sometimes its also a matter of the techs, they employ. One very well known clinic, locally, brought a muzzle in for my service dog, to draw blood, just because he was a doberman. I ended up doing the blood draw, by myself (he was such a good boy)and still getting charged for the draw.

Have you had a dog with retained canines before? The adult teeth have already, almost fully grown in(so she essentially has 2 canine teeth in one spot). Personally, I dont want to put her under anesthesia any time soon, but I dont want those teeth to cause any sort of dental infection or mess up her bite. Currently it looks like she has plenty of room on either side before her other teeth start. I am sure they will need to be yoinked out of there if they dont come out on their own, the question is how long can we safely wait. (The vet hasnt actually seen the teeth, I just emailed him asking what he would suggest)
 

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My 7 month old puppy also held her canines until well past the time she should have lost them. On a visit to her vet only 2 weeks prior to her spay the vet said they should fall out on their own, but if for some odd reason they did not and she still had them when she went in for her spay, they would remove them, it was a simple procedure and she would never even know it had been done. She also said that if I waited to have her spayed, not to worry about the teeth, if they were still there in a couple months, then think about removal. Typically they fall out by 6 months, but sometimes take a little longer, but if they werent gone by 9 months then think about removal.

As for the spay itself, well, I am of the mind set that Id rather prevent cancer now and I have had all my dogs spayed before their first heat. I have never heard anything about spaying a dog young having anything to do with the length of their life, but to be honest, cancer shortens their life pretty quick as well, and if I can offer some protection from that then I will. Now dont take my statement wrong please. I simply feel it is better to spay before the first heat and avoid the possibility of cancer later in life. I had never heard about the lack of ovaries shortening a dogs life span.
 
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Have you had a dog with retained canines before? The adult teeth have already, almost fully grown in(so she essentially has 2 canine teeth in one spot). Personally, I dont want to put her under anesthesia any time soon, but I dont want those teeth to cause any sort of dental infection or mess up her bite. Currently it looks like she has plenty of room on either side before her other teeth start. I am sure they will need to be yoinked out of there if they dont come out on their own, the question is how long can we safely wait. (The vet hasnt actually seen the teeth, I just emailed him asking what he would suggest)
As I said in my other post, my pup had retained canines, and the vet said it wasnt a critical problem, sometimes they hold them past 6 months. Bella did actually lose hers on her own, and when I tried to wiggle them they felt very firm in her jaw. You have a couple months before you have to worry about them being a problem, and with all the surgery your dog has had, it would probably be wise to just leave them alone right now. IF she has to go back into surgery for any other reason and they are still there, they can easily pull them, but if that is the only reason you want her to undergo surgery, its not worth it to put her under.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
you used Dr. Fasth for her ear correction. Are you close enough to use her as your primary vet?
She is pretty far for me to use her as a primary vet. Plus, I dont particularly like her staff and was very unhappy with how I was treated there. Dr. Fasth is great but that is where it stops.
 

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Hello everyone,
I recently noticed that my little girl is dripping urine when she sleeps. she will be 6 months old in 2 weeks. Could this be due to her immature anatomy? or is incontinence in a pup this young, possibly something more serious?

My other concern is that she has 2 retained canines and the vet says we have a few more weeks until they need to come out. I had planned to wait until she was older to spay her. We already have one bitch who became incontinent after her spay and I really don't want another.

Does anyone have any experience with this? could she grow out of it? could spaying her make it worse? are there any other tests that could be run besides checking for a UTI? (she doesn't have a UTI)

Just an FYI, I have asked my vet these questions and he hasnt really answered them, he is just all about getting that uterus out ASAP. He claims that there are no ill effects from juvenile spays but I have read so much to the contrary.


You can try these natural supplements for incontinence. Just type in the search incontinent on this web site.

Only Natural Pet Store - Dogs Cats Holistic Supplies Products Food Treats Vitamins Medicine Supplements
 

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1. He claims that altered dogs are more active and playful then intact dogs and

THIS would make me RUN not walk to another vet ASAP. He also should have looked at her bite before telling you if the extra teeth are an issue or not. Sometimes it does not interefer with bite and other times it does. If it does, they should come out sooner vs later.
 

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1. He claims that altered dogs are more active and playful then intact dogs and

THIS would make me RUN not walk to another vet ASAP.
Why? I am sure that I have read credible research which supports this. I would run, too, but not 'cause he said this.
 

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You should ask for a urine culture first. If that comes back negative you should then investigate further. It could be something more serious requiring surgery. We actually had a puppy only 3 days before noticing the same thing and unfortunately had to return her because her ureters did not attach correctly to her bladder which would require surgery (possibly several), and she would still likely be incontinent for life.
Good luck, I hope it ends up only being a UTI that you can fix easily, it sounds like your poor girl has been through way too much already!
On another note, avoiding pyometra which can happen in unspayed females is a huge plus for spaying females! But, what you do with your dog should be your choice so just look at the pros and cons and make your own decision. :)
 
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