Hi all! My "little" Lucy (she's 40 lbs, so maybe not so little anymore!) is a pretty awesome girl, except that she doesn't seem to get the whole "no pulling" thing on the leash. I've tried stopping or turning around as soon as the leash goes taut, verbal corrections, quick leash corrections, everything I can think of, but she's just too interested in all the smells to care. This morning she actually broke the buckle on her collar after a particularly exuberant leap (we now have a much sturdier one!). Any novel ideas?!
4 month old won't stop pulling!
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I've said this a million times but I'll say it again to you 
Sam always needed some good run time in before we started our walk. I'd find an open field, put a long lead on her and let her burn some energy off for about 15 minutes or so. Then, try a nice walk.
I'd use a lead that's 15ft long. You can even use this opportunity to work on her recall.
Sam always needed some good run time in before we started our walk. I'd find an open field, put a long lead on her and let her burn some energy off for about 15 minutes or so. Then, try a nice walk. I'd use a lead that's 15ft long. You can even use this opportunity to work on her recall.
Everything above. Exercise before walk!
Teach attention and eye contact. The command for this is her name. When you have the beginning of this, when she forges forward you want to not stop or turn around but begin to walk (immediately and briskly) backward, use her name and re-focus her attention on you. When you have her attention, either turn around at that point or begin to walk forward... either way, KEEP her attention. I find teaching loose leash walking as an attention exercise to be much more successful than teaching it as a position exercise. It is important that you act BEFORE the leash has tightened when she is just the tiniest bit forged. It is important that you reward eye contact very heavily and frequently in the initial stages... popping food in her mouth while the both of you are in motion is a learned skill, but it gets easier with practice... in the beginning, reward for even a flicker of eye contact... as she becomes aware of what you are paying for, she will begin to offer it for real.
It is also VERY important that YOU learn to keep a loose leash! I start walking in class on the second week by asking how many folks have dogs who pull... ALL the hands go up "I do!" "I do!" When I watch these folks, almost always I see people keeping the leash tight and dogs reacting to being pulled... I spend much more effort teaching people not to pull than dogs.
Teach attention and eye contact. The command for this is her name. When you have the beginning of this, when she forges forward you want to not stop or turn around but begin to walk (immediately and briskly) backward, use her name and re-focus her attention on you. When you have her attention, either turn around at that point or begin to walk forward... either way, KEEP her attention. I find teaching loose leash walking as an attention exercise to be much more successful than teaching it as a position exercise. It is important that you act BEFORE the leash has tightened when she is just the tiniest bit forged. It is important that you reward eye contact very heavily and frequently in the initial stages... popping food in her mouth while the both of you are in motion is a learned skill, but it gets easier with practice... in the beginning, reward for even a flicker of eye contact... as she becomes aware of what you are paying for, she will begin to offer it for real.
It is also VERY important that YOU learn to keep a loose leash! I start walking in class on the second week by asking how many folks have dogs who pull... ALL the hands go up "I do!" "I do!" When I watch these folks, almost always I see people keeping the leash tight and dogs reacting to being pulled... I spend much more effort teaching people not to pull than dogs.
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Same problem over here. Some of our solutions that have helped and we are working on everyday:
We will throw the ball around the backyard for less than 5 mins before a walk. Having her go in a sit every time the ball gets thrown, and maintain eye contact and attention to me until I release and have her fetch. This will burn energy if she is particularly high strung some days, but it doesn't fix the problem that she does not always walk like I want her to on a leash. This is good if your dog is really hyper, but if it's obedience structure your dogs needs try this...
I prefer this exercise though which is to just do some loose leash walking in the backyard to show her what I will be expecting. I find going in a figure 8 pattern, with her on my left, inside helps her focus. Since I am moving into her space, she tends to be more alert as to where I am walking, and realizes she needs to move WITH me, not ahead. Walking in small circles, with her in the inside also lets her know, I am in charge and to follow whatever way I'm going. I Must look like a freak, because at the start of our walk, I walk down the road in an S pattern, walking into her, and then having her walk into me and follow the leash. Sounds silly, but I find it gets my girl to look at me and pay attention.
Clickers are awesome, we still use one for walking, when she gives me eye contact or has a loose leash I click and treat. Starting out you have to do it very often, every few seconds. Now we are doing it every minute or so, as she gets better with walking.
How often are you going for walks? And working on loose leash training? If she is not being taught consistently how to behave on a leash, you may need to just put in some more time to obedience. I have found my girl is very stubborn lol, she still doesn't get it at 6 months old, and we do 4 walks a day @ about 20 mins plus various obedience sessions. But they are still babies and still learning, so just be patient and encourage good behaviour on the leash
We will throw the ball around the backyard for less than 5 mins before a walk. Having her go in a sit every time the ball gets thrown, and maintain eye contact and attention to me until I release and have her fetch. This will burn energy if she is particularly high strung some days, but it doesn't fix the problem that she does not always walk like I want her to on a leash. This is good if your dog is really hyper, but if it's obedience structure your dogs needs try this...
I prefer this exercise though which is to just do some loose leash walking in the backyard to show her what I will be expecting. I find going in a figure 8 pattern, with her on my left, inside helps her focus. Since I am moving into her space, she tends to be more alert as to where I am walking, and realizes she needs to move WITH me, not ahead. Walking in small circles, with her in the inside also lets her know, I am in charge and to follow whatever way I'm going. I Must look like a freak, because at the start of our walk, I walk down the road in an S pattern, walking into her, and then having her walk into me and follow the leash. Sounds silly, but I find it gets my girl to look at me and pay attention.
Clickers are awesome, we still use one for walking, when she gives me eye contact or has a loose leash I click and treat. Starting out you have to do it very often, every few seconds. Now we are doing it every minute or so, as she gets better with walking.
How often are you going for walks? And working on loose leash training? If she is not being taught consistently how to behave on a leash, you may need to just put in some more time to obedience. I have found my girl is very stubborn lol, she still doesn't get it at 6 months old, and we do 4 walks a day @ about 20 mins plus various obedience sessions. But they are still babies and still learning, so just be patient and encourage good behaviour on the leash
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Hi my boy Zeus is nearly 5 months and Ive been having trouble too, I have used something called a HALTI head collar... some people dont recommend these too much because of our Dobes neck problems but I thought it worked for few weeks but now im considering switching to a harness, I find these help with control over our powerful dogs to keep us and them safer and to aid our training... have a look at them... good luck
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The biggest problem I have seen with loose leash walking is consistency. You can see it easily by looking out your window. Dog pulls, person corrects... dog pulls, person corrects... dog pulls, person corrects... dog pulls, person gets annoyed, and lets the dog pull. You have to correct the behavior every single time, without fail, and you have to reward the behavior you want, every single time without fail. If you are not 100% consistent, you are teaching your dog one thing. Sometimes he's allowed to pull, sometimes he's not. What most people also don't realize is when a dog pulls, it creates tension, and the tension will cause the dog to pull more. So, you want to never get to that point. I find the turn around and go the other way method has worked on just about every dog I have ever tried it on. Pick a point that you're comfortable with, and every time the dog passes that point, give a "no" and go the other way. Reward your dog for being behind the imaginary line. Where the line is is up to you. I don't expect a formal heel on a walk, and I don't mind my dog being a little ahead of me, but I don't want her determining where we go either. I take the lead, loop it on my hand, and wrap it around my hand a few times (I want to preface this with my dog is full grown at about 32 pounds. I would never wrap a lead around your hand with a full grown doberman, because it's asking for trouble. While I would call Dakota pretty strong for her size, if I trip, there's no way she's going to drag me down the road on my face. A shorter lead would work better for bigger dogs.) so that she can only go a certain distance. I may let out 3 or 4 feet of lead. As soon as it gets tight, "no", go the other way. If you don't leave your front lawn for a week, then so be it. But if your dog pulls, and you keep walking, you're reinforcing the behavior, and it will simply never stop. It's best to nip this in the bud while your dog is young, and you are stronger than your dog. A full grown, powerful doberman pulling at the end of a leash is not going to be fun. So do it while they are more manageable, and while they're young it's easier to teach good habits.
I don't recommend harsh corrections, head harnesses, or other "tools" to stop pulling unless you really know what you're doing with them. We have to remember that these are tools to be used along with TRAINING. If you put a prong collar on your dog, and your dog stops pulling, it doesn't mean he's not going to pull in a different collar. You still have to incorporate the training, so that your dog is actually learning not to pull, as opposed to not pulling simply to avoid an aversive. (correction)
So, to sum it up, if your dog goes past where you are comfortable, "no", turn around and go the other way. Every...single...time.... If your dog is walking next to you, reward, every...single time... Quickly at first. If your dog is next to you, immediately reward. Take a few steps, immediately reward. Repeat this. The more you reward, the more your dog will walk next to you. Make sure you are using high value rewards. Then proceed like any other behavior. Once your dog is understanding where you want him to walk, you can start rewarding less. Instead of every step or 2, start rewarding for 10 feet, or 20 feet of good walking. Then keep weening, until you are at the point where you no longer have to reward during walks, but you can reward when you get home for a good walk. How fast you ween off depends on the dog, but remember that you don't want a dog that is ONLY walking well for the reward. This is why it's important to ween off, because you don't want to build a dog that won't listen when you don't have a reward handy.
I don't recommend harsh corrections, head harnesses, or other "tools" to stop pulling unless you really know what you're doing with them. We have to remember that these are tools to be used along with TRAINING. If you put a prong collar on your dog, and your dog stops pulling, it doesn't mean he's not going to pull in a different collar. You still have to incorporate the training, so that your dog is actually learning not to pull, as opposed to not pulling simply to avoid an aversive. (correction)
So, to sum it up, if your dog goes past where you are comfortable, "no", turn around and go the other way. Every...single...time.... If your dog is walking next to you, reward, every...single time... Quickly at first. If your dog is next to you, immediately reward. Take a few steps, immediately reward. Repeat this. The more you reward, the more your dog will walk next to you. Make sure you are using high value rewards. Then proceed like any other behavior. Once your dog is understanding where you want him to walk, you can start rewarding less. Instead of every step or 2, start rewarding for 10 feet, or 20 feet of good walking. Then keep weening, until you are at the point where you no longer have to reward during walks, but you can reward when you get home for a good walk. How fast you ween off depends on the dog, but remember that you don't want a dog that is ONLY walking well for the reward. This is why it's important to ween off, because you don't want to build a dog that won't listen when you don't have a reward handy.
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Some interesting ideas here. Were I to simply turn around every time my pup, of the same age, pulls, I'd be effectively walking in a circle. He started out very good, but has been getting worse. the last two days have been very bad. He has been tugging so often on the leash that he chokes himself. I've done everything I can think of. There is a park part of the way from my house. I actually run him up the field full speed and then continue walking up the path, then on the way back I run full tilt down the same park then continue a very short route home. It makes no difference.
wait till Lucy is calm before you go out the door. leash on, your at the door, now have her sit and wait till calm. You have to be patient with this and wait it out. Eventually she will understand that her calm behavior instigates the reward(the walk) and not get so overworked or excited before the walk. Do the calm with everything, calm dog gets food, calm dog gets play, calm dog get affection. NILIF.
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Then walk in a circle! If your dog pulls, he doesn't get to go anywhere. If he pulls, and pulls, and pulls, but he still gets rewarded by being able to walk, and play in the park, then why SHOULD he stop pulling? He's being rewarded for pulling. You have to stop that, and he will learn that if he wants to go anywhere, he can't pull. Ever notice how when the leash gets tight, he seems to pull more? It's called opposition reflex, and if he is allowed to pull to the point of choking himself, it's only going to get worse. You have to stop allowing that to happen.
some folks have a harder time with this than others. It has been proven that correction based training is more effect in speed and retention of learning than walking around in circles. Or as kevin K suggests, just walk around in circles.
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I have found free shaping and reward based training to be significantly faster and better in every aspect, especially when it comes to dobermans. For those that have a hard time with it, their technique is likely flawed and needs improvement.
could be. I personally have great results with proper timed and administered correction. More than one way to skin a cat and what works for one may not work for all. I guess I am the kind of guy that thinks if it is not quite working, try another approach. And if your spending the day walking in circles...well.. LMAO.
and the best part...your experiences are gold on these forums! sometimes I offer different perspective, but, in the end I 100% respect your experience in these matters and find you to be one of the best at relaying your advice to others and I agree with anything you would advise and thank you for it.
Wow, thanks for the responses everyone! (They weren't getting e-mailed to me for some reason, so I just checked now) Lucy is getting better on the long leash, she knows exactly how long the leash is, but still pulls sometimes. We're working on it though! And I did find that throwing a ball around with her for a few minutes before we leave helped too. I haven't had the time or patience lately to try to get her walking on the short leash (LAST semester of university before I graduate, couldn't make it easy, right?), but I'm hoping to use both the turn around and go the other way method, combined with treats to get that ball rolling. She's a smart girl, I have to keep reminding myself she's still just a baby!
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P.S. - I am enjoying all the opinions presented here ....Great Thread !!
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When I train off-leash or on-leash...I like to incorporate:
- a sound/timing/rhythm technique
So I exaggerate the sound coming from the soles of my shoes, the speed of my walk & then vary my stride length (right down to loud baby steps)...all the while, keeping my pups focus (without using treats).
- also, will not allow my dog to lower its head and sniff...that's when no walking focus on me, is present
When I do "figure 8's" / "S" weaves / "Left or Right turns", I exaggerate the leaning / tipping of my shoulders...as another Visual Clue...for my dog, to constantly stay alert to my ever changing & unpredictable movements.
I constantly talk to my dog, during training...and very frequently plant a kissy sound onto the dogs muzzle...with the tip of my finger.
- to express my utmost excitement or just a little "a-a" verbal correction (as needed)
- I like to rely on my projected voice & body language in timing sink, to willingly direct the dobe, into my desired expectations
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When I train off-leash or on-leash...I like to incorporate:
- a sound/timing/rhythm technique
So I exaggerate the sound coming from the soles of my shoes, the speed of my walk & then vary my stride length (right down to loud baby steps)...all the while, keeping my pups focus (without using treats).
- also, will not allow my dog to lower its head and sniff...that's when no walking focus on me, is present
When I do "figure 8's" / "S" weaves / "Left or Right turns", I exaggerate the leaning / tipping of my shoulders...as another Visual Clue...for my dog, to constantly stay alert to my ever changing & unpredictable movements.
I constantly talk to my dog, during training...and very frequently plant a kissy sound onto the dogs muzzle...with the tip of my finger.
- to express my utmost excitement or just a little "a-a" verbal correction (as needed)
- I like to rely on my projected voice & body language in timing sink, to willingly direct the dobe, into my desired expectations
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I could be wrong about this but.. I think using a head collar on a breed that has a tendency toward wobblers is not a good idea. Besides, that's not really correcting the problem. All using a gentle leader does is treat the symptom not the underlying cause of the problem which is generally just lack of training.
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