Often times there is not a solution to the male/male aggression other than crate and rotate. If it were me, I'd get a qualified trainer in ASAP. With 3 males, that's a recipe for trouble in the making.
11 month old Dobe dislikes my 5 year old Terrier
Hi there, actually to be perfectly honest they loathe each other with a vengeance that has erupted into violence this past couple of weeks resulting in my Terrier being hospitalised with some serious bites to his back.
In all honesty my Terrier has never been nice to my Dobe and whilst I understand the male on male aggression thing is normal. What I can't understand is why it is directed solely (thanks be to whomever for small mercies) at the big Terrier (who thinks of himself as boss dog) and not the smaller Terrier (who has always been nice to my Dobe).
I am now coming down hard on all my dogs (not physically I never hit them) but rather I am attempting to re-assert my role as Alpha, which I understand is what is needed. However, my fear is, when I am not here, will I have to keep one dog locked up in the house while the others are running free in my compound?
Will my Dobe suddenly view my other Terrier as a problem and attack him?
Is there a solution to this male on male aggression?
Both of my Terriers are castrated and the Dobe has just had his pockets picked (castrated 2 days ago, aged 11 months, done so late as my vet advised he be allowed to grow instead of being stunted by castration too early) I appreciate castration wont solve this problem by itself, but do you guys have any tips for a newcomer who is really struggling to sort this problem out?
:confused2
In all honesty my Terrier has never been nice to my Dobe and whilst I understand the male on male aggression thing is normal. What I can't understand is why it is directed solely (thanks be to whomever for small mercies) at the big Terrier (who thinks of himself as boss dog) and not the smaller Terrier (who has always been nice to my Dobe).
I am now coming down hard on all my dogs (not physically I never hit them) but rather I am attempting to re-assert my role as Alpha, which I understand is what is needed. However, my fear is, when I am not here, will I have to keep one dog locked up in the house while the others are running free in my compound?
Will my Dobe suddenly view my other Terrier as a problem and attack him?
Is there a solution to this male on male aggression?
Both of my Terriers are castrated and the Dobe has just had his pockets picked (castrated 2 days ago, aged 11 months, done so late as my vet advised he be allowed to grow instead of being stunted by castration too early) I appreciate castration wont solve this problem by itself, but do you guys have any tips for a newcomer who is really struggling to sort this problem out?
:confused2
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I agree with Adara, and I would keep them separate, always. I would recommend next time going through a better breeder, as this unfortunate situation would have been avoided... Like mentioned, there's not much you can do except keep them separated. With the size difference, I would be extremely cautious as to when you allow them to interract... One wrong move can spell disaster. I realize your in Spain, and things may be done differently, but a good breeder in the states would have made you aware of this. For future reference, try to have your doberman be opposite sex of your other dogs.
You are experiencing the unvarnished reality of male on male aggression that so many people think they can "fix" by being the "alpha". I'm sorry it happened, but if your Doberman's breeder didn't warn you about this then shame on them. Most reputable breeders would never have sold you a male Doberman when you already had male dogs in your home.
I think your best bet may be to rehome the Doberman - or if you bought from a good breeder, return him to them to be rehomed.
I think your best bet may be to rehome the Doberman - or if you bought from a good breeder, return him to them to be rehomed.
You won't be able to "fix" the situation by being "alpha." You definitely need to keep the dogs entirely SEPARATE until you can get a professional trainer. You may need to keep the dogs separate FOREVER if you don't want one of them to get killed.
ETA: Male dobermans and male terriers usually DO NOT mix.
ETA: Male dobermans and male terriers usually DO NOT mix.
same sex aggression is very real and serious. I hope your terrier will recover ok.
Many stories here: http://www.dobermantalk.com/dt-educational-archive/10315-male-male-aggression.html
Many stories here: http://www.dobermantalk.com/dt-educational-archive/10315-male-male-aggression.html
Thanks for the replies,
I really am in a pickle aren't I!
Unfortunately there are no trainers in this area, the closest I have found is over 300 kilometres to the south and he doesnt "do Dobes" as he put it, so that option is out. I do have a friend who has a Belgium Malimoi and a Boxer who went through something similar and it was her who advised me to reassert my role as Alpha.
Is it really not going to do any good?
I have thought about rehoming my boy, but it isn't that easy as he is a 'dangerous dog' as Dobes are considered over here and it is a real ball ache to get the permissions to have one. First of all you have to have a pysche evaluation to make sure you are of sound mind and capable of owning a Dobe. You then have to show that your home is Dobe ready, two metre high fence etc, etc. You then have to register that you have a Dobe and show you have sufficient insurance to cover claims made against you. You are then checked up on by the police to make sure he is muzzled while out, that he is trained to a certain standard etc, etc and that you are still of sound mind having gone through all the hassle to find one and get the permissions etc. Trouble is there are few who bother to do this and it is this kind of person I fear would come forward to adopt my Dobe and in the meantime until a suitable person comes forward I still have the problem of what do I do with my Dobe and Terrier.
We are at present keeping them apart, I walk the Dobe and Boxer seperate from the Terriers and when they go out in the yard one of us is always in attendance. To be honest the fights have occurred when outside influences come into play, someone approaches the gate, they are waiting to be let in to the yard after a walk or my Terrier has taken himself off rabbit hunting and the Dobe doesnt want to let him back in to the yard.
The breeder didnt warn me about male on male aggresion, if he had I wouldn't have gotten my boy but would have waited for a female instead, however, saying that my female boxer will not tolerate any other female within a hundred yards of her position so maybe that wouldnt have done any good either. My boxer is aged and according to my vet coming to the end days of her life, we realised we needed a big dog to look the part if nothing else when it comes to protecting the house and family. A friend of mine from way back when has always had Dobes and she swayed me into thinking of having one, research on the internet led to one thing after another and I became Toby's human and have not regretted it since. Well not until now that is. Don't get me wrong I love him with all my heart, I also love my Terrier and want to do what is right for them both.
Any tips would be gratefully received.
I really am in a pickle aren't I!
Unfortunately there are no trainers in this area, the closest I have found is over 300 kilometres to the south and he doesnt "do Dobes" as he put it, so that option is out. I do have a friend who has a Belgium Malimoi and a Boxer who went through something similar and it was her who advised me to reassert my role as Alpha.
Is it really not going to do any good?
I have thought about rehoming my boy, but it isn't that easy as he is a 'dangerous dog' as Dobes are considered over here and it is a real ball ache to get the permissions to have one. First of all you have to have a pysche evaluation to make sure you are of sound mind and capable of owning a Dobe. You then have to show that your home is Dobe ready, two metre high fence etc, etc. You then have to register that you have a Dobe and show you have sufficient insurance to cover claims made against you. You are then checked up on by the police to make sure he is muzzled while out, that he is trained to a certain standard etc, etc and that you are still of sound mind having gone through all the hassle to find one and get the permissions etc. Trouble is there are few who bother to do this and it is this kind of person I fear would come forward to adopt my Dobe and in the meantime until a suitable person comes forward I still have the problem of what do I do with my Dobe and Terrier.
We are at present keeping them apart, I walk the Dobe and Boxer seperate from the Terriers and when they go out in the yard one of us is always in attendance. To be honest the fights have occurred when outside influences come into play, someone approaches the gate, they are waiting to be let in to the yard after a walk or my Terrier has taken himself off rabbit hunting and the Dobe doesnt want to let him back in to the yard.
The breeder didnt warn me about male on male aggresion, if he had I wouldn't have gotten my boy but would have waited for a female instead, however, saying that my female boxer will not tolerate any other female within a hundred yards of her position so maybe that wouldnt have done any good either. My boxer is aged and according to my vet coming to the end days of her life, we realised we needed a big dog to look the part if nothing else when it comes to protecting the house and family. A friend of mine from way back when has always had Dobes and she swayed me into thinking of having one, research on the internet led to one thing after another and I became Toby's human and have not regretted it since. Well not until now that is. Don't get me wrong I love him with all my heart, I also love my Terrier and want to do what is right for them both.
Any tips would be gratefully received.
I have two females that seem to have female/female issues. They dont care for each other but tolerate each other well. When Kyrah was maturing they had a few small squabbles and then had one big fight. Thankfully not as bad as yours sounds. It was a rough few weeks after that one. Lots of looks and body language. They respect each others space and never play together. I am always on the watch for body language and stink eyes. They are always separated when I am not with them.
My Dobe is standing and giving my Terrier looks that would peel paint off the walls at times, then at other times he is licking him and wagging his tail. Of course my Terrier being the bad tempered little piece he is (also scared now) just growls no matter what, so I fear he hasn't learnt anything from what happened and my Dobe hasn't learnt to leave him alone yet either.I have two females that seem to have female/female issues. They dont care for each other but tolerate each other well. When Kyrah was maturing they had a few small squabbles and then had one big fight. Thankfully not as bad as yours sounds. It was a rough few weeks after that one. Lots of looks and body language. They respect each others space and never play together. I am always on the watch for body language and stink eyes. They are always separated when I am not with them.
The worst of it is, the Boxer and my other Terrier joined in and attacked with my Dobe. I have found it is one thing to try and get one dog off another but when there are 3 of them having a go, boy is that a nightmare, unfortunately it often takes too long to actually make inroads into pulling them apart and my Terrier has been hurt because of.
Here's hoping with patience and a whole parcel of vigilance it stops being a problem.
I reckon I am in a similar situation. I have a male dobe pup and an almost 7 year old male lab mix.
Truth be told, my boy was a b-day gift for me and if I had any inkling of it, I would have probably heeded peoples advice about male on male aggression.
However, I am stubborn and I believe I won't have any issues in my household.
Read: I believe, not guaranteed.
I am playing the alpha card. I think many people feel they are alpha, but in actuality they aren't, they just have decently good dogs.
When I flex my brow, use my outside voice and big boy tone, the dogs go into "I'm in trouble mode" and cower a bit.
I am and have been instilling the fear of masters wrath in them for times when they step out of line.
If I sense something is a miss, I step in with the quickness and let it be known that I am not messing around and there will be consequences if they tried to hurt one another.
With that said, I am not worried about the dobe attacking my male lab mix...I would be worried about what my male lab mix would do to the dobe if it did try something shady. My male lab mix does not play around like that. I have seen him in almost full on rabid attack kill you in two seconds mode.
Hopefully that day will never come and masters wrath will be enough of a deterrent to prevent it. Right now my two males are best buddies.
Truth be told, my boy was a b-day gift for me and if I had any inkling of it, I would have probably heeded peoples advice about male on male aggression.
However, I am stubborn and I believe I won't have any issues in my household.
Read: I believe, not guaranteed.
I am playing the alpha card. I think many people feel they are alpha, but in actuality they aren't, they just have decently good dogs.
When I flex my brow, use my outside voice and big boy tone, the dogs go into "I'm in trouble mode" and cower a bit.
I am and have been instilling the fear of masters wrath in them for times when they step out of line.
If I sense something is a miss, I step in with the quickness and let it be known that I am not messing around and there will be consequences if they tried to hurt one another.
With that said, I am not worried about the dobe attacking my male lab mix...I would be worried about what my male lab mix would do to the dobe if it did try something shady. My male lab mix does not play around like that. I have seen him in almost full on rabid attack kill you in two seconds mode.
Hopefully that day will never come and masters wrath will be enough of a deterrent to prevent it. Right now my two males are best buddies.
wow, what is he mixed with? I didnt know labs had a mode like that lol! I had a chocolate lab for 12 1/2 years and the only thing he ever thought about attacking was his food dish! A mode like that has to come from whatever he is mixed with.With that said, I am not worried about the dobe attacking my male lab mix...I would be worried about what my male lab mix would do to the dobe if it did try something shady. My male lab mix does not play around like that. I have seen him in almost full on rabid attack kill you in two seconds mode.
Actually, more people are attacked/bitten by Labs than they are Dobes, funny how they don't get the same bad press isnt it. I guess it is to do with how they look, that and the fact that the TV and Film folk always go for the Dobe or Rottie when they want a guard dog, preferably with one of those thingies they put in thier mouths to curl up their lips to make them look as if they are vicious.wow, what is he mixed with? I didnt know labs had a mode like that lol! I had a chocolate lab for 12 1/2 years and the only thing he ever thought about attacking was his food dish! A mode like that has to come from whatever he is mixed with.
Golden Retrievers are fairly high on the bite list too--but, much as I hate to say it, I think that the list may be skewed based on the population of various dog breeds--more Goldens than Dobes may lead to more Golden bites being recorded.
I think probably the little dogs may be the worst biters/number of dogs--but they do less damage and their owner can get away with a little light laugh and a "Fluffy is just picky about who he lets pet him" comment.
I think probably the little dogs may be the worst biters/number of dogs--but they do less damage and their owner can get away with a little light laugh and a "Fluffy is just picky about who he lets pet him" comment.
I had a chocolate lab at a past job of mine try to rip my face off once. It was a neutered lab that attacked Prime with full force at the dog park on my last visit with him there that caused two broken teeth to my boy. These were both purebreds. I am not a lab person, no thank you, lol.wow, what is he mixed with? I didnt know labs had a mode like that lol! I had a chocolate lab for 12 1/2 years and the only thing he ever thought about attacking was his food dish! A mode like that has to come from whatever he is mixed with.
You should come use your big boy tone and alpha nonsense with my dog aggressive Great Dane. I guarantee she will send you packing and probably give you a huge wake up call. Male-Male or Female-Female dog aggression is NOT a training issue, nor is it fixed with an "alpha tone".I reckon I am in a similar situation. I have a male dobe pup and an almost 7 year old male lab mix.
Truth be told, my boy was a b-day gift for me and if I had any inkling of it, I would have probably heeded peoples advice about male on male aggression.
However, I am stubborn and I believe I won't have any issues in my household.
Read: I believe, not guaranteed.
I am playing the alpha card. I think many people feel they are alpha, but in actuality they aren't, they just have decently good dogs.
When I flex my brow, use my outside voice and big boy tone, the dogs go into "I'm in trouble mode" and cower a bit.
I am and have been instilling the fear of masters wrath in them for times when they step out of line.
If I sense something is a miss, I step in with the quickness and let it be known that I am not messing around and there will be consequences if they tried to hurt one another.
With that said, I am not worried about the dobe attacking my male lab mix...I would be worried about what my male lab mix would do to the dobe if it did try something shady. My male lab mix does not play around like that. I have seen him in almost full on rabid attack kill you in two seconds mode.
Hopefully that day will never come and masters wrath will be enough of a deterrent to prevent it. Right now my two males are best buddies.
I have a 3 male household that isn't bad at all due to the our lifestyle/schedules. My dobe Cap'n Jack is always with me no matter what room I'm in, he's my shadow. The other two, my mom's Toy fox terrier-shih-Tzu mix, and beagle are generally attached at the hip with her, but wile the beagle sleeps on beds/ couches. The terrier and jack play when together, all dogs eat together, go outside together...and occasional family time together...but that's it. Jack gets crated when I leave because I can't trust him unsupervised yet. 
I don't think being the boss is a bad thing do you guys? I am not trying to achieve this by hitting my dogs, that isn't the way, not from what I have read, but rather I am being a little more forceful with how I say things, I don't ask anymore, I tell. Of course my dogs are in a position not to do as I tell just as easily as they are when I ask, but it does seem to be working if only a little bit.
We now keep my Dobe and Terrier apart when we are not with them and a close eye on them when we are, so far so good. Please keep your fingers crossed for us, we need all the help we can get.
We now keep my Dobe and Terrier apart when we are not with them and a close eye on them when we are, so far so good. Please keep your fingers crossed for us, we need all the help we can get.
I find consistency to be the big thing for establishing authority--if you have to give a command, say it once, and if you get no response, make it happen. If you are not in a position to make sure your wishes are met, don't give the command in the first place.
I don't mean you should use nastiness here--but you see so many people shouting, "Come! I said Come! Dog COME!" over and over, with no means of enforcing the command. All they are doing then is teaching the dog he doesn't have to come unless he feels like it.
I don't mean you should use nastiness here--but you see so many people shouting, "Come! I said Come! Dog COME!" over and over, with no means of enforcing the command. All they are doing then is teaching the dog he doesn't have to come unless he feels like it.
I have a confession, I use an electronic collar with which to back up my commands if they are ignored. Now I know they are not for everybody, but in desperation I bought a set because my Terriers were chasing cars when we were out and about. Thing is, they would cross a whole valley to get at the car, (over a mile) and no matter how I tried I just couldnt catch them or make them listen. So I took advice and got a collar set. WOW! Instant result, off they ran to chase my neighbours car going up the road, so I shouted NO! and at the same time zinged them, it only took one blast on number 1 the mildest setting to stop them in their tracks. When they set off again, (this time a couple of days later) I again shouted NO! and zinged them again on setting one and they stopped, the third time they didnt even bother to chase after the car because they knew what NO! meant.
Now some folk will say I am cruel, but I reckon it is a small price to pay if it means my dogs are no longer chasing after cars and putting themselves into such a dangerous situation.
Now some folk will say I am cruel, but I reckon it is a small price to pay if it means my dogs are no longer chasing after cars and putting themselves into such a dangerous situation.
I guess I use a simular method to this. I just dont call it alpha role. I use a firm voice and as Melbrod said I dont wait to see if they are going to listen if they arent doing it as I am saying it. I am up and making sure they follow thru. Especially when I feel things are on edge. Which yesterday and today has been a couple of those days. I am glad to hear you are keeping them separated. It just isnt worth the risk. Keep at it very consistantly and hopefully things will get better. Make sure you are correcting which ever is doing the wrong. It is easy to correct just the larger dog. When actually sometimes it is the little one doing something to provoke.I don't think being the boss is a bad thing do you guys? I am not trying to achieve this by hitting my dogs, that isn't the way, not from what I have read, but rather I am being a little more forceful with how I say things, I don't ask anymore, I tell. Of course my dogs are in a position not to do as I tell just as easily as they are when I ask, but it does seem to be working if only a little bit.
We now keep my Dobe and Terrier apart when we are not with them and a close eye on them when we are, so far so good. Please keep your fingers crossed for us, we need all the help we can get.
Kyrah also has a e-collar. Used properly it is a great resource. She already had an excellent recall but wanted it just in case for when we are in an unfenced area. Which there were a couple times something was too much of a distraction that I didnt see coming and catch her attention quick enough. It has also come into great use for when my daughters puppy, Dexter, is over playing. He is also a rat terrier right under 20lbs. They play great together but that is a huge size difference and he is as fast as lightinging. I fear sometimes her prey drive may kick. She becomes quite frustrated occasionally when he gets the extreme zoomies and she cant catch him. She normally wears it when they are playing.I have a confession, I use an electronic collar with which to back up my commands if they are ignored. Now I know they are not for everybody, but in desperation I bought a set because my Terriers were chasing cars when we were out and about. Thing is, they would cross a whole valley to get at the car, (over a mile) and no matter how I tried I just couldnt catch them or make them listen. So I took advice and got a collar set. WOW! Instant result, off they ran to chase my neighbours car going up the road, so I shouted NO! and at the same time zinged them, it only took one blast on number 1 the mildest setting to stop them in their tracks. When they set off again, (this time a couple of days later) I again shouted NO! and zinged them again on setting one and they stopped, the third time they didnt even bother to chase after the car because they knew what NO! meant.
Now some folk will say I am cruel, but I reckon it is a small price to pay if it means my dogs are no longer chasing after cars and putting themselves into such a dangerous situation.
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