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post #26 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-16-2013, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

I will look into clicker training. Never tried it, but I've been browsing YouTube videos on it.

The kitchen picture was just a picture moment. We're always on her about staying down from counters. Usually when she follows us into the kitchen, she just sits and observes. I reward her for just sitting there.

When she bites, we immediately tell her to chew on her toy a d place it in her mouth.

She seems to bite us when she's bored and overly excited. She'll be chewing on her rawhide for a while, then approach us with it. She lays down, continues to chew, then decide we taste better.

I bought her a martingale to go for walks around the neighborhood. How long should I walk her for her first time? Around the block? She just ate a 1/2 hour ago, maybe wait an hour more?

Whole I wait to take her for a walk, I'll look at clicker training.


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post #27 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-16-2013, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

She faught the leash a few times in the house, then we were on our way. Just went for a ten minute walk.. About 15 houses from here. She did great. She saw 4 cars go by, 2 people walking their dogs, and people sitting in a garage chatting. I let her sit and listen and watch. A few times u made her sit At a corner and gave her a treat.

So is this about the right length of time and distance to go? Or should we go further. I was going to take her around the corner, but thought that was too much for the first time.

I would like to take her tomorrow morning too




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post #28 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 01:18 AM
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That's awesome! Good job!

Maybe a bunch of little walks, gradually increasing in length. Also, differ the walks... one time this way, one time that way. She can go for a little ride to a new place, and get out and have a walk, too! At this point I would be concentrating on everything being a good, positive, upbeat experience... only good stuff happens on walks!

If you meet any dogs, make sure that you ask the folks with the dog if it is good and safe with puppies before you let them meet... she should not have anything scary happen right now. I would not let her meet any little or elderly dogs right now until she has some social skills... she is liable to be too excited and jump on them. If there is something that she wants to meet or to explore, either let her do so or walk away... standing there just out of reach of something is very, very frustrating and sends the wrong signal.

If you meet people who would like to pet her (and, you will!), have her sit and give the person a treat to give to her. Do NOT be all worried that she will jump or whatever... be calm, relaxed, happy and self-assured... explain that she is a puppy and that puppies can be barbarians if she does jump, but do not go into disciplinary mode with her. Deal with this part later, if you need to, after she is sure that going out and meeting new folks is a good thing.

If she does find something spooky (and, she hopefully will not... you should not expect it!), go into support mode and cheerleader mode: "No way! What IS that thing! Let's go see! Boy, are you a BRAVE puppy! Yesssss!"... do not go into comfort or reassurance mode (you will be agreeing that whatever the thing is actually is a scary thing). She needs to approach whatever she approaches on her own four little feet... do not use any pressure (leash or hands) to bring her to anything... you can encourage, but you cannot force.

Sometimes, it's a good idea to go in the back yard and play ball or something for a bit before a walk... don't take Total Crazy Energy Puppy for a walk, take Burned Some Of The The Crazies Off Already Puppy for a walk.

I am sooo glad you did this, and so glad it went well! Again: good job!

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post #29 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

Well, they both finished eating breakfast. I'll wait an hour so their food settles, and take her for a longer walk. Hopefully people will be outside. i didnt take her out too long last night, we live by a large community park, and coyotes come out there. maybe we can go for a twenty minute walk. First picture is collar relaxed, second is held tightest. Does that look correct? .High drive puppy-help!-imageuploadedbypg-free1363532738.352366.jpg
High drive puppy-help!-imageuploadedbypg-free1363532798.190065.jpg

I think my neighbor is irritated by her whining, he won't talk to me, lol. I'd be irritated too.

As far as her feeding her 2 cups 3x day i think she's a decent weight. Vet says she's going to be an all legs girl. I just weighed her. She's 37.4. Lbs and 20-21" at the shoulders. She'll be 18 weeks this Thursday.

Thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it. I have always socialized my dogs, never been a problem. When people (adults and kids) come over, I tell them to come see the puppy. She will actually throw a fit if they don't.

I'll create an account somewhere so you can see and hear her crying fit. This is where we're having problems trying to fix. I know part of it is us too.


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post #30 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 10:32 AM
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I would tighten up the collar a bit. With the leash snug, there should be a larger gap between the two rings through which the martingale chain is threaded... you want maybe a 1" - 2" gap when the leash is tight.
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post #31 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

•Both our dogs playing
•Spaz pup (hyper mode)
•Crying fit (this is our biggest problem). Maybe we need to move her pen into a room where she cannot see us?

http://youtu.be/UWvMUM4tgxw
http://youtu.be/8GeFJljMU00
http://youtu.be/cxl6uVGI7sU


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post #32 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

Ok, I'll do that now. I bought a medium collar. I'm used to chokers on my dogs. I'm so paranoid of them breaking free. But, I know, if they're trained right, they won't run away. It's just been my fear with dogs. So many list dogs out here


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post #33 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

This is held tight on her collar.
High drive puppy-help!-imageuploadedbypg-free1363539029.928410.jpg

Trying to video as we walked. We took a 21 minute walk. I will begin teaching her to heel on a walk. made her sit a few times a s carried rewards. She is now outside, chewing on a toy, quietly and
Calmly. Thank you!!
http://youtu.be/grGXb26no1E


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post #34 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

I'm going to print out a list of words with descriptions for us all to use. Ex: Settle- calm down and quiet


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post #35 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 06:15 PM
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I think the bad news is the good news... looks like you have a wholly normal pup!

The "crying fit" is just protest... it is made worse by the frustration of you being right there and just out of reach, and interacting with her. This is not panic, this is not separation anxiety, it is plain ol' "You can't do this to me!" Walk away.

The spaz puppy is pretty spazzy... lotta energy, but in no way abnormal. She is bored and under-exercised (primarily mentally)... this will change as her life gets bigger. I recommended Margot Woods' Sit on the Dog exercise for someone else a couple of days ago, and I recommend it also for you. The only modification I might make is to start with fifteen minutes instead of half an hour. Be prepared... I predict she is going to throw a godawful tantrum... oh, well - sucks to be her! I would choose my times well for this... not when she is exhausted at night, and not when she is super energetic early in the day after a good night's sleep. When a nap might be good is a good time, and will reduce the initial protest tantrum. Here is the exercise, first in text and then in pictures:
Wheres my sanity: Sit on the Dog, aka: The long down
Wheres my sanity: Sit on the Dog pictorial

The collar's fine now and the walk, for the most part, looked great... I would be interacting more with her on the walk. It looked sort of like a person and a puppy each out for a walk, attached to each other with a string... possibly, this was due to you concentrating on taking video, and during the rest of the walk you were more engaged with each other? It also looked like you had the handle of a retractable leash in your hand, but the leash itself looked like a regular leash. If it was a retractable, I would ditch that in favor of a plain six foot leash.

I would not be teaching her to heel, now, but would teach loose leash walking. These are not the same. Heeling is a precise obedience exercise: some consistant point on the dog's body between the shoulder and the ear even with the seam of your pants leg, four to six inches away, with attention. This is not what you want or need, now. I can send you how I teach loose leash walking if you want. It will take a while to type up.
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post #36 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

I'll look at your links after I type this.

The crying is what ive been trying to calm down. she is so loud at night. we live outside the major city here, it's very quiet after 7pm. I think our problem is we have let her cry when she was little. But I have been worried about the neighbors, and shut our house up and try to tell her hush, it's okay. I think that was encouraging it. We put blankets over her pen, and she pulls them down. Don't walk by, she might bite you out of frustration.

About our walk today, she has been worn out all day. She played by herself a few times while I ran errands, but has been pretty quiet. Lots of naps and she looks tired today. Gave her a bath outside with the hose, it was 85 here. Ate her dinner at 5pm, and has been asleep for a have hour, with no protest, YAY!! I'm very thankful for your advice. I was thinking about another walk tonight, but I think she's too tired and worn out from today's walk and bath.

The leash is a 4 foot, not retractable ( I hate those). I was talking to her during the whole walk. After I gave her time to look at new bushes, houses, cars, and listen to a nearby bar noise and busy street, I told her "Simone, Come" . I lightly jerked the leash, and she continued walking. I immediately said good girl good girl in a positive voice.


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post #37 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 08:41 PM
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I would move her into your room at night. Dobermans were invented to be attached to humans, and I think she would do much better... at least, that's my guess. That she can spend part of her sleeping right next to you on the couch has probably made it much worse because she KNOWS what she wants, and is deprived of it. Tonight would be a good night... if she's all worn out, you can probably plop her on your bed and she will curl up and crash. Considering your elder girl's previous bedroom claiming, do not let your pup harass her and I would keep them on opposite sides of the bed (you get one, your husband gets the other LOL!)... if you suspect that there may be a political problem here, maybe put the pen (or a crate... can't remember if you have one) right next to your side of the bed and let her sleep there. If she's on the bed, I would keep your door closed so that she does not wake and consider going walkabout in the house unsupervised.

She has undoubtedly been physically active while being "house-bound" but she must have been sooo bored! Just having adventures and learning and exploring new things may go a long way toward eliminating the energy that comes from frustration and boredom... she has been stir-crazy, even if she had no understanding of what was missing. I am hoping very much that you and she have begun a new and better way of life that will make both of you happier and more satisfied. I think you have a terrific pup, by the way...

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post #38 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

Ok, I read the Sotd page and saw pictures. I understand the concept. I will try it. I might try it tonight around ten, when she becomes hyper.

Question: due to the curiosity and jealousy of being left out, should I put my older Doberman. In another room? To keep Simone's focus only on me?

No reward is given, got it.
Once she does well with this exercise, should it be used as a time out, when she becomes hyper, or biting?

She was trying to get my dogs leash from me, as I was walking with it. I turned away from me, And she but my butt (ouch!) she is punishing me for not giving her the leash, so I walked her to get pen, I walked outside, closed the door and drapes ( cant see me). until she calms down. She bites also when she can't have something, grr, just like a child..


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post #39 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellyBear View Post
Ok, I read the Sotd page and saw pictures. I understand the concept. I will try it. I might try it tonight around ten, when she becomes hyper.

Question: due to the curiosity and jealousy of being left out, should I put my older Doberman. In another room? To keep Simone's focus only on me?

No reward is given, got it.
Once she does well with this exercise, should it be used as a time out, when she becomes hyper, or biting?

She was trying to get my dogs leash from me, as I was walking with it. I turned away from me, And she but my butt (ouch!) she is punishing me for not giving her the leash, so I walked her to get pen, I walked outside, closed the door and drapes ( cant see me). until she calms down. She bites also when she can't have something, grr, just like a child..


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No, not tonight when she becomes hyper! That she is hyper does not mean that she is not exhausted (think two year old child who missed her nap)... she does not know where her off switch is. This will help her learn that, but this is not when you teach it.

Do you mean put your elder dog out of the room when you are doing Sit on the Dog? I don't think this matters, as long as she will not interfere (if she does, send her in the bedroom with your husband, I guess). The puppy does not need to focus on you. The puppy needs to cool her jets, that's all... and, become resigned to her fate that right now she is not at liberty to do as she wishes, and must wait.

Initially, this exercise teaches self-control. It also somewhat redefines her status in relationship to you. I THINK I would not be using it as a time out or for discipline... initially, I know I would not. It is not punishment... it teaches a different state of being. I think a lot of your issues are going to vanish, between some self control and a bigger, more stimulating life...

How much is her pen used as a punishment/time out? If this is a BAD place, that could also be a small part of the reason she is so unhappy sleeping in there, and being in there in general.

I really think that at night she is over-tired.

You're right that she is like a child LOL! I want what I want when I want it! Maturity is the antidote to this. In addition, I would work on teaching a "leave it" command. This is basically a zen exercise... you get something you want by not TAKING something else you want. This starts with you sitting on the floor with a treat in your open hand right above the floor. When she moves to take the treat, you close your hand (leaving it exactly where it is, and still) and tell her to "Leave it!" in a neutral/pleasant voice. Then, she gets to shred your hand with teeth and claws <vbg>.Do NOT repeat the command, just wait. When she gives up and backs off even a tiny bit, say "YES!" and give her a DIFFERENT and maybe better treat from the other hand. When she backs off more quickly, you can test by opening your hand again, closing again with a repeat of the "Leave it!" command if she tries to take it. Lather, rinse, repeat until you can have food in your open hand, and she stays back with a command and waits expectantly. This will probably take several short sessions over a period of a couple of days. Then, you change the location of the item to be left (in your shoe, on the couch, in a bowl, between the pages of a magazine... have fun and be creative!) and use different items (that she wants) for her to leave, pay with a DIFFERENT item that she also wants (leave a paper towel, get a tug toy and a few minutes of play, for example)... do NOT incorporate her food dish in this - not fair!

I am not sure what to advise you about the butt chomp. I prefer to deal with infractions like this swiftly and briefly, but most of what I would choose to do would be liable to get this pup coming back at you (which is not a good or productive thing). I think that once you have a better and different relationship with her, that she will actually care about your displeasure (she probably cares now, but doesn't know what to do about it and that makes her frustrated and antagonistic)... at any rate, I think that a simple, firm, brief expression of displeasure will be effective later (hopefully soon)... in my house, that chomp would have got a pup snatched by the side of the neck, a little jerk forward, and a low "Hey!"... I would then walk away immediately before the pup had time to react. The next time I interacted with the pup (like in three seconds, probably), what had happened would be over and done with and we would be moving on. The briefest discipline is usually the best discipline... more than that becomes a fight, and nobody wins.
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post #40 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

No crate yet, only a playpen. Our room is too small for the pen.

I'll be looking for a crate this week. Probably will get a large enough she can grow into. I prefer a vari-kennel


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post #41 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 11:23 PM
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If you have a standard, eight-panel ex- pen, you could probably fold a couple of the panels back to make it enclose a smaller area. It might fit by your bed then. I'd still just try her in bed with you. Your elder dog's possible reaction concerns me a bit, but the bed would have to be tall enough that you'd need a ladder, yourself, before I would worry about the height of it for the pup.
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post #42 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

I have a seven panel. the seventh is the gate. Im really thinking About getting a crate. i really want her crate trained also. Tomorrow after work, I'll try the treat above the floor exercise.

As I was reading what you wrote, the dogs got rambunctious in the house again. They both were as hyper as that video I posted earlier. They both start to get vocal, jumping on the couch, etc. I grabbed the pup, held her still, to calm her jets for a moment. She came off like a bucking bronco with teeth, lol. No not funny. I put her in her pen for 5 minutes, then let her out once she settled. Now they are both calmer. I almost took her for a short walk down my block.

Can I walk her in the morning And at night? Or is that too much for one day. Can i just put her in a hamster ball? J/k. Her energy is out of this world.

I won't give up on her, no matter what. My next day off is Thursday, and in going to spend my whole day on her.


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post #43 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 01:24 AM
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No hamster ball... how about this: Sled dog puppy wheel - YouTube ? LOL!

YES, you can walk her in the morning and at night! Your husband can walk her during the day! She's not a delicate little flower... take her to the park on Thursday!

When you say "bucking bronco with teeth"... was there an attempt to use the teeth? I would be foregoing this type of restraint for now (although she needs to understand that you can hold her and do stuff to her whether she likes it or not)... this was NOT a tantrum you should have initiated, and you DID initiate it... she was already over-the-top, from your description, so attempting to hold her at that point was pretty much guaranteed to get the response you did. Pick your battles better! I dunno where you are, so I don't know what time it is there... did this happen late? How close to bedtime?

Start the Sitting on the Dog tomorrow. Come home, go for a walk, Sit on the Dog.
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post #44 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 01:42 AM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

As for my older Doberman. We have been extremely proud of her, and how she deals with the puppy.

The eldest Doberman I lost in sept used to lick my older ones face. When she passed, she bowed her head to me and asked me to lick her head ( I cried).

At times. She asks the puppy to lick her head. She just laid next to Simone and allowed her to do this. Yes, that is Simone putting her Whole mouth around my older dobes muzzle. I just shake my head, seeing just what she lets the pup get away with. Older one
Is asleep on the couch and pup is below
Her. Most of the time Simone is snuggled up to my older one.

Last night, my older dog stole the puppies new squeaker toy. Simone starred her down and got on the couch next to her. I knew it was coming, but i stayed calm. She kept pushing my older dog, who then snapped, got on top of her and got in her face. Simone screamed, peed and ran to her pen. Of course I got bit, grabbing my older one off of her. I checked for blood, which there wasn't any, but my finger. It was the puppy who kept pushing the issue after my older one said no.

Simone is sometimes overbearing with my older one. I know she needs to learn respect. I've been around dogs, and have seen the pack mentality. Im no trainer, I try to educate myself whenever i can from experienced people. I allow them to get their point across, but know when to step in carefully.
High drive puppy-help!-imageuploadedbypg-free1363588708.588905.jpg
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post #45 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 01:57 AM
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LOL! I would have let Simone take her lumps... she had it coming!

What's your older girl's name?
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post #46 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 01:58 AM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

The bucking bronze thing was about 10pm. This is the usual time for her hyper mode. Both dogs got riled up, playing. It got a little stronger, more mouthy, teeth and noisy than usual. In pretty sure my older dog Gracie didn't like how hard Simone was playing and started to snap harder at her and whined also. So I tried to get Simone to tone it down a little.

At about 11pm, that is when Simone laid on the floor and Gracie joined her. Maybe I jumped to conclusions, and should have let them keep playing, and let Gracie tell her when she's had enough, right?

btw. Yes, I would buy that hamster wheel for the dogs And my teenager, lol


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post #47 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 02:09 AM
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I think a regular night time walk could be in order to get her brain as tired as the rest of her. You could probably avoid the hyper mode altogether, and Simone would go right to sleep.

I probably would not have intervened in their play. It sounds like Gracie is capable of saying when enough is enough. She can say it far better than you will ever be able to...

I haven't had two Dobermans in full rock 'n' roll mode in my house for a long time, and I miss it. Ungodly noise and such violence! I used to worry about their teeth when they'd snap at each other... their teeth would clack together so hard! Ugly Face, King/Queen of the Couch, body slamming each other into the walls... it was a lot of fun, and I miss it.
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post #48 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 03:22 AM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

You're right, I just need to let Gracie (7yr old) put her in her place more often. I think a lot of it is me, I still worry.

Shelby ( we had her 10 1/2 yrs), she guarded our son when he was a toddler. She put herself between him and a stranger, would sleep on the top of the couch, watching out front door. But only when our son was napping there too, She was a nut. I loved her so damn much. It killed me when she left us. When we got Gracie, she pulled the same crap Simone did, stealing Shelby's bone, biting her tail and running off. Gracie became the alpha, and Shelby could care less, just at least she had food. Gracie would pester Shelby for weeks. She knew Shelby was food driven, so she'd occasionally do the foghorn leghorn stunt. Put some food by her and dare Shelby to come get it. Nothing ever happened, Shelby was too smart. But after a while, Gracie would start an argument and Shelby would kick her ass. Gracie ended up with a hole in her ear or scratches on her neck, nothing major. Then Gracie would kiss up to her, and ask Shelby to lick her head, and she did. Then Gracie would sleep next to her. They were best friends to the end. Gracie knew when Shelby had bone cancer (tumor on her leg), she stopped asking to play with her. Not once did Gracie ever pester her again.

Okay, that makes sense. I wonder if Gracie asked for Simone tonight for forgiveness for getting on her last night.

So, I'm wondering if Simone will be the alpha. Gracie seems to be getting more passive with Simone. i just need to let Gracie do her pack leader thing with Simone. I'm used to the Doberman jaw snapping. Shelby snapped her jaws when she wanted something.

I guess I got a little nervous, not knowing how Gracie and Simone will react in a disagreement t. I need to think like a dog again



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post #49 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 03:43 AM
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It sounds like a completely normal puppy to me,I would worry if my puppy wasn't a live wire. I read recently that the first eighteen weeks are very important for socializing,my 15 week old puppy has been in classes from 9 weeks. I take him everywhere I possibly can,I live in the country so he works around horses and rabbits etc. I have to make an effort to go to the town to get him used to noises of cars,lorries and lots of people. I do little tracks and basic fun obedience,he has no clue he is training,it is all a game with high value rewards. He bites a lot,so we play tug and retrieve,pretty much everything I do is training and focus but all in fun. I love this time as I am hopefully putting in the foundation for the future. He is like a little sponge,soaking up the attention and praise he gets and he just wants to please.
Enjoy your baby,they grow up way too fast.
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post #50 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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High drive puppy-help!

My husband has a real bad back he cant walk her. i do the walking.

She but my husband today. And it bled, and she did It to me tonight. So I thought what the hell, and dragged out the chair.

High drive puppy-help!-imageuploadedbypg-free1363662958.053879.jpg

I fed Simone about 7pm. I figured I would sit on the dog for a while, then take her for a walk, after her food settles. I am sitting on a chair, on her leash, as I write. She is beside me, rolling on her side, chewing on her leash at times, but is laying down. I'm impressed, she didn't throw a big fit at all. She figured it out quick. We've been sitting for 5 minutes. She's so mellow, He looks like she's going to take a nap (eyes look heavy).


High drive puppy-help!-imageuploadedbypg-free1363662436.662312.jpg


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