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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 11:18 PM
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I always find when people take things out of context and get super offended it's because they have some insecurities to begin with. That, to me, seems to be why many BYB's huff, puff, and stamp their feet as often as they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar Boogie
Doesn't it stand to reason to ALL breeders may have SOME dogs with misshapen ears? The law of averages would agree with this.
It would agree with this. That being said, I have yet to see a dog from a breeder that I would consider reputable with misshapen/uneven ears. However, I also have not seen all dogs from all reputable breeders. I have seen my fair share of (what I would consider) ugly or simply bad crops on many a doberman from breeders that I would not consider reputable. ***Let me say, bluntly, that that last sentence was NOT about any dogs belonging to DT members in this thread. It was a general statement so hold your horses, all of you.**
Now, could you not have said this, the post that I quoted, the first time instead of acting like a child and throwing around offensive names?



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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 11:21 PM
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Yes, should be an easy fix if taken to the right vet.. I had one of my dobes re-done when she was 1 year old.. They were tooooo long.. They stood but the tips were always waving in the breeze...Once they were redone, they looked great and they were still a show cut....

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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchworkRobot View Post
I don't think that anybody was referring to Diesel or Hera. You two aren't the only two people to ever grace DT with their presence and also have dogs from DLE. There have been others with DLE dogs and there have been threads on DLE where their dogs were discussed.

Take a step back, take a breath, start over.
You all don't go after Hera and Diesel directly ***edited***

But you have to realize that Going after Desert Legends East EVERY SINGLE CHANCE you get is, by extension, a direct attack on our dogs.

And I would venture to say that none of you has ANY direct knowledge of DLE, or the owner, or his dogs. All you see is "Desert Legends" and you go Ape **** because of that puppy mill in Arizona.

Might I suggest that rather than take for granted everything you read on the internet about someone or something, that you actually go there and meet and observe for yourself, as we did.

I would challenge anyone who is critical of DLE: Have you ever spoken to Jules Arias? Have you ever been to his kennel?

I have seen the threads that are critical of him, and I can assure you that they are wrong.

Not that any of this will really make a difference to people whose minds are made up. But if anyone reading this is the least bit open minded, maybe it will help point the way.

Last edited by MeadowCat; 06-24-2012 at 11:50 AM.
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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 11:32 PM
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I just visited their website and here is what I gathered as a "hypothetical future puppy buyer"...
~ "Superior Sized" - Red flag
~ They seem to be breeding their male, Lobster, to every single one of their bitches. - Now, I know very little about Lobster as they say very little about him. Apparently he has his SchIII title? Since I am going off just the site I will take them for their word on that but they don't back it up with anything except one picture. I cannot imagine that Lobster is the perfect stud for every one of their bitches.
~ They boast about their large dogs.
~There is NO mention of health testing and no mention of them doing anything with their dogs other than breeding them.
~How can they know that their puppies are good schutzhund prospects if they don't do schutzhund themselves? Remember, I"m just going off the site here.

As a hypothetical buyer, the lack of information about their dog's achievements and health testing is a HUGE red flag to me. I want a puppy that is going to be healthy and to me what they advertise does not, to me, say that they produce healthy and capable dogs. They do not post registered names of their dogs so I cannot even go off and do outside research. I could email them, sure, but why would I make the effort to do that for a breeder that gives me nothing but red flags when there are breeders whose less pretty websites give me so much more information and also raise no red flags at all? If they were health testing why would they not mention it? If they were titling, or at least trying, why would they not post about it in any way?

I cannot help if you're offended that I don't like where you got your dog from. Will you also be offended if I say that I don't like whatever your favorite food and color is?



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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchworkRobot View Post
I always find when people take things out of context and get super offended it's because they have some insecurities to begin with. That, to me, seems to be why many BYB's huff, puff, and stamp their feet as often as they do.


It would agree with this. That being said, I have yet to see a dog from a breeder that I would consider reputable with misshapen/uneven ears. However, I also have not seen all dogs from all reputable breeders. I have seen my fair share of (what I would consider) ugly or simply bad crops on many a doberman from breeders that I would not consider reputable. ***Let me say, bluntly, that that last sentence was NOT about any dogs belonging to DT members in this thread. It was a general statement so hold your horses, all of you.**
Now, could you not have said this, the post that I quoted, the first time instead of acting like a child and throwing around offensive names?
Absolutely not.

To begin with, I was not acting like a child. If you want to see childish behavior, look at Sinister or Sam and Mack's Mom's post. Sinister LOVES to identify "Lobster" puppies, and not to be complimentary. Sam and Mack's Mom is the first to ask what breeder a new puppy is from, and pulls pictures from people's galleries during conversations that she had no previous part in.

Your last sentence may not have been about any current DT members, but you DO consider DLE to not be reputable. But really, that is just a matter of being your opinion, isn't it? Just like everyone else here.

You say you have yet to see a dog from a "reputable breeder" with a bad ear crop. Seriously, how large can your sample size be? If all of a sudden a dog appears with a bad crop from a breeder who you considered to be reputable, does that breeder get shifter to the BYB/Greeder column? How exactly does that work for you?
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post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-23-2012, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchworkRobot View Post
I just visited their website and here is what I gathered as a "hypothetical future puppy buyer"...
~ "Superior Sized" - Red flag
~ They seem to be breeding their male, Lobster, to every single one of their bitches. - Now, I know very little about Lobster as they say very little about him. Apparently he has his SchIII title? Since I am going off just the site I will take them for their word on that but they don't back it up with anything except one picture. I cannot imagine that Lobster is the perfect stud for every one of their bitches.
~ They boast about their large dogs.
~There is NO mention of health testing and no mention of them doing anything with their dogs other than breeding them.
~How can they know that their puppies are good schutzhund prospects if they don't do schutzhund themselves? Remember, I"m just going off the site here.

As a hypothetical buyer, the lack of information about their dog's achievements and health testing is a HUGE red flag to me. I want a puppy that is going to be healthy and to me what they advertise does not, to me, say that they produce healthy and capable dogs. They do not post registered names of their dogs so I cannot even go off and do outside research. I could email them, sure, but why would I make the effort to do that for a breeder that gives me nothing but red flags when there are breeders whose less pretty websites give me so much more information and also raise no red flags at all? If they were health testing why would they not mention it? If they were titling, or at least trying, why would they not post about it in any way?

I cannot help if you're offended that I don't like where you got your dog from. Will you also be offended if I say that I don't like whatever your favorite food and color is?
You sound exactly like you are speaking from the Anti-DLE talking points list.

There is nothing wrong with a Doberman being large, or superior sized.

You know nothing of him or his attachment to Lobster. If he thinks Lobster is a great stub and wants to breed him to all of his females, who are you to criticize? Also, as a business man, why would he pay a stud fee to some other breeder when he has a great stud to do the job?

You are repeating yourself when you criticize his Superior Sized dogs, and then his boasting of large dogs. But then again, so what? There is nothing wrong with Dobermans being that size.

He tests his dogs' health. What else is is he supposed to do with them?

He was doing schutzhund with Lobster as recently as last summer. He actually canceled an appointment with us to come and see his kennel because a trainer was in town and he had to make time for Lobster to see him.

You are going by what is, or is not, on his website. Have you called him and asked him anything yourself?
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post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar Boogie View Post
Your last sentence may not have been about any current DT members, but you DO consider DLE to not be reputable. But really, that is just a matter of being your opinion, isn't it? Just like everyone else here.
I never said that it wasn't anything more than opinion. I also went on to give my unbiased opinion based on their website and nothing more. I went through that site just like I did when I was looking for a puppy and I posted what I would have written on my checklist. I have pretty high standards when it comes to breeders and you don't have to agree with them, everyone is different. However, that's not going to keep me from giving my opinion on a discussion forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar Boogie View Post
You say you have yet to see a dog from a "reputable breeder" with a bad ear crop. Seriously, how large can your sample size be? If all of a sudden a dog appears with a bad crop from a breeder who you considered to be reputable, does that breeder get shifter to the BYB/Greeder column? How exactly does that work for you?
I'd probably ask what happened. The rare bad crop wouldn't make a breeder automatically a byb. Crop jobs aren't what make breeders reputable or not, I never said that they did. Still, you're MUCH more likely to see a bad crop on a BYB puppy than you are on a puppy from a breeder that I (opinion) would consider reputable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar Boogie View Post
There is nothing wrong with a Doberman being large, or superior sized.... You are repeating yourself when you criticize his Superior Sized dogs, and then his boasting of large dogs. But then again, so what? There is nothing wrong with Dobermans being that size.
I'm sorry, but yes there is.
Dobermans are (and always have been) meant to be a medium sized breed. With any breed, a dog that is too big does not perform as well. They may be able to do some things just fine, or even great for a while, but they will not be able to go as long and they will likely break down as the extra weight is hard on the joints. There are plenty of threads on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar Boogie View Post
You know nothing of him or his attachment to Lobster. If he thinks Lobster is a great stub and wants to breed him to all of his females, who are you to criticize? Also, as a business man, why would he pay a stud fee to some other breeder when he has a great stud to do the job?
I think that Dreizehn's sire, Gentry, is a GORGEOUS doberman. In my opinion he is one of the most handsome dogs I've ever seen (in pictures and in person) and he is what drew me to Dreizehn's breeder. His breeder does not breed Gentry to every one of her bitches and we have had a conversation about why. Not every dog is a match for every bitch, plus the doberman gene pool is pretty small which is another reason why many breeders breed to dogs outside of the immediate household. Is Lobster a perfect match for all of the bitches that DLE keeps? Perhaps. But I'd say that the chances are slim. It's common BYB practice to breed the same dog to every single bitch on the property, I've seen it many times.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar Boogie View Post
He tests his dogs' health. What else is is he supposed to do with them?
Title them, which is not something that I see proof of on his site. I already spoke on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar Boogie View Post
He was doing schutzhund with Lobster as recently as last summer.
That's awesome. I had no idea that was the case based on the site that this "business man" has put together.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar Boogie View Post
You are going by what is, or is not, on his website. Have you called him and asked him anything yourself?
I already answered this too. Of course I haven't called him. Why would I take the time to contact somebody who is giving me NO information when there are other breeders who give me all the information that I look for plus no red flags?



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post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 04:30 AM Thread Starter
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Do i recrop or not guys we have gone off topic?
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post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena the Doberman View Post
Do i recrop or not guys we have gone off topic?
Well this thread has taken a turn....Back to the subject. I would find a crop vet in you area (or an area you are willing to travel to) and take your dog in for an evaluation. I would even visit at least one more vet....ask for recommendations on here for your area, contact your local Doberman club, or if you know anyone in your area who their dog has a good crop....ask them too! When you visit the vets ask for examples of their work. (be realistic with your expectations) If your vet is not being helpful.....find another one. The crop is just the first part of the issue you could encounter with your puppy over their lifetime. (I'm not saying your puppy is not going to be healthy but this come up with this breed) I would take your time with in reason to find the right vet for the re crop. Best of luck!

BTW my first dobe had a strange crop....I hated it at first! But after a while....I think it gave her character.
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post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 07:46 AM
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I would leave them myself - I sm not a fan of bad crops but my Pete has some of the worst ears ever (not a bad crop really but horrible aftercare) I've grown to love them and somehow they really seem to suit him.

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post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 08:22 AM
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To the OP- Yes... it is possible to have them recropped by a cropping artist. Personally I'd leave them be. I think they add character.

Now off topic: Seriously when will people get it that when we say we do not like a breeder we are not maliciously attacking every dog ever bred by them. I do not have to support shady practices in order to love your dog. Get. Over. It.
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post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 08:26 AM
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If the crop bothers you which you said it does and IMHO they should be correct I would find a vet who KNOWS what he is doing and I would have the one ears corrected. Not a biggy now that they are standing.

Some people on here need to quit wearing their feelings on their sleeve and taking things personal which were in no way personal. If your name or your dogs name was not mentioned it was not personal.

There is a breed standard for every purebred dog out there. That standard describes the ideal dog and super sized is not in the standard. A lot of BYB use it however because in America the mind set is bigger is better but in the true dog world the standard rules and bigger is wrong. But the term "super sized" sells. It is a money making catch phrase for those why buy into it without understanding the Doberman standard.

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post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 08:31 AM
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Do i recrop or not guys we have gone off topic?
Appologies Athena The Doberman, back on track.
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post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 10:39 AM
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LOL! Typical response from a BYB defender.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonestar Boogie View Post
***edited***

I've had it with you trashing DLE, and by extension my dog.

You are a nosy busy body with nothing better to do than to criticize other peoples' dogs and their breeders. You repost pics of other peoples' dogs with asking them permission, yet you have no pics of your own worthless dogs posted in your gallery. I'm guessing the pic of the dog in your AV was obtained from Google Images. (See what it's like when people say **** about you and they don't know what the **** they are talking about?)

In short, stick to being Sam and Mack's mom, and SHUT THE **** UP about other peoples' dogs.

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post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 11:24 AM
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LOL! Typical response from a BYB defender.
***edited***

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post #41 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 02:18 PM
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While you can recrop at any age, make sure you understand that the ears are going to be shortened at the same time they're reshaped. If you have a short crop to begin with, this would leave you with not a lot of ear left.

I'd definitely recrop if my dog's ears were unattractive to me, as long as there was enough ear to do so without leaving them with pitbull ears.

It's also a lot harder to recrop than to do an initial crop, so I'd make sure I used someone who knew what they were doing.



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post #42 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-24-2012, 04:58 PM
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OP I would say find a reputable vet and see some pics of re-shaped ears. I would be specific of what you want. This is if the ears are already standing.

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post #43 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-25-2012, 08:07 PM
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One thing to keep in mind is that not all vets can do nice crops.
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crop issues , cropped ears , cropping , puppy

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